How to: Ego Roll Wall

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

Be warned if you use this idea... It's shown up in enough stories that a lot of players will know the trick to getting through it: Have your teammate pick you up and throw you through. It's a classic.

 

And if you're by yourself, just run through at full speed. Normals can do this (as opposed to throwing each other over 12ft), and the Hero rules back it up due to the rules for deceleration.

[actingkeith]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

Looking back at the original question...

 

I think I'd build the power as Mind Control, telepathic, AE 1Hex, Continuous, 0END, Persistent, Only One Command (Do Not Enter), IIF (Thing in Wall), Independent. You could also build it as AE (whatever) so that as soon as they walk into the AE, they get hit by the compulsion not to enter the door.

 

Building it this way, anyone entering the AE is automatically hit, the effect is invisible by default, and the default special effect is exactly in line with the desired effects.

 

But what do I know... I'm not into the exotic build strategies if an old-school one works.

 

Peace,

 

-k

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

I agree with using Change Environment. It is such an appropriate and obvious fit when you simply think of it as the mental equivalent of a sheet of ice or whatever. Rep to the first poster mentioning this, if I can.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

Be warned if you use this idea... It's shown up in enough stories that a lot of players will know the trick to getting through it: Have your teammate pick you up and throw you through. It's a classic.

And a lot of GMs will know how to deal with that tactic: After you land (and take damage from the throw), make an EGO roll at the appropriate penalty. If you fail, you run back the way you came.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

And a lot of GMs will know how to deal with that tactic: After you land (and take damage from the throw)' date=' make an EGO roll at the appropriate penalty. If you fail, you run back the way you came.[/quote']

...or go (temporarily) insane due to the mental stress. After all, there might have been a reason your mind couldn't take going through. I wouldn't feel that bad in most cases about imposing some kind of side effects for circumventing the problem that are not there if you overcome the problem in the usual fashion (e.g. making the Ego roll).

 

Of course, you should reward imaginative problem solving, but myabe this one shouldn't really be considered imaginative at this point.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

This is a clear cut use of Change Environment with EGO Roll penalties. When a character hits the field they have to make an EGO Roll immediately. If they fail they can't cross.

[Fuzzy Gnome]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

...or go (temporarily) insane due to the mental stress. After all' date=' there might have been a [i']reason[/i] your mind couldn't take going through. I wouldn't feel that bad in most cases about imposing some kind of side effects for circumventing the problem that are not there if you overcome the problem in the usual fashion (e.g. making the Ego roll).

 

Of course, you should reward imaginative problem solving, but myabe this one shouldn't really be considered imaginative at this point.

Common sense doesn't have to be imaginative. You wouldn't stand in a fire you could leap through, or try to swim through quicksand. Why not try to avoid or minimze any obstacle you encounter?

[Basil]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

When I first saw the title to this thread I read it as:

How to: Egg Roll Wall

 

And then I imagined a wall of egg rolls. Oy!

 

Sorry, just random insanity, never mind me, I'll go now, sorry,......

[gojira]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

And if you're by yourself' date=' just run through at full speed. Normals can do this (as opposed to throwing each other over 12ft), and the Hero rules back it up due to the rules for deceleration.[/quote']

 

Or you could just build the AoE large enough that running or leaping is unfeasible.

 

Lots of stories where the protaganist is walking through fairy woods, encounters some sort of barrier or compulsion, but keeps going a ways until finally he or she is forced back. That's a big AoE, maybe a square mile or so, but suitable if you want a powerful opponent.

[nexus]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

...or go (temporarily) insane due to the mental stress. After all' date=' there might have been a [i']reason[/i] your mind couldn't take going through. I wouldn't feel that bad in most cases about imposing some kind of side effects for circumventing the problem that are not there if you overcome the problem in the usual fashion (e.g. making the Ego roll).

 

Of course, you should reward imaginative problem solving, but myabe this one shouldn't really be considered imaginative at this point.

 

I admit I haven't heard of it before, but I can't recall running into this particular style of obstacle before either.

[Sociotard]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

The running thing makes sense. say you have the area defined as a wall 2 hexes big. It would be 13 feet wide, 6.5 feet thick, and big enough to block most doors. Now, say you walk up to the barrier. you fail your ego roll, stop and turn back. Now say you come back and try again at a full sprint (non combat speed) You try again, and once more fail the Ego roll, but even though it's forcing your mind to try to turn back, you really can't stop yourself within 6.5 feet, so you make it through. (I went with the Change Environment btw.)

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

This is a clear cut use of Change Environment with EGO Roll penalties. When a character hits the field they have to make an EGO Roll immediately. If they fail they can't cross.

I've been meaning to ask this: Huh?

 

I don't understand this use of Change Enviornment. What mechanic is used to trigger the EGO Roll, and what mechanic is used to determine the effect of a failled roll?

 

I know there is one, since I've seen official write ups for things like icy ground, but where's that hidden mechanic? Or maybe I'm just missing something....

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

I've been meaning to ask this: Huh?

 

I don't understand this use of Change Enviornment. What mechanic is used to trigger the EGO Roll, and what mechanic is used to determine the effect of a failled roll?

 

I know there is one, since I've seen official write ups for things like icy ground, but where's that hidden mechanic? Or maybe I'm just missing something....

 

Well, one of the combat uses of CE is to cause penalties to particular Characteristic Rolls - the DEX penalty for walking on a CE-created sheet of ice is the canon example in the rulebook. The implication seems to be that if you create an environment where a penalty would apply, that would require someone entering that environment to make the appropriate roll. IMO it's not unlike the GM calling for a Characteristic Roll when he or she deems the circumstances appropriate, and ruling on the effect of a failed roll; except in this case the appropriate circumstances are being induced by a deliberate Power usage.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

You know, with my new 5ER, I might as well reread it again, just to see the changes made to Change Enviornment.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

When I first saw the title to this thread I read it as:

How to: Egg Roll Wall

 

And then I imagined a wall of egg rolls. Oy!

 

Sorry, just random insanity, never mind me, I'll go now, sorry,......

If you had PS: Make Egg Rolls, your GM might tell you: "Make a Make Egg Roll Roll."

 

And in a certain secret society in China in the HERO Universe, the art of making egg rolls is an act of sheer will, so PS: Make Egg Rolls is an EGO-based skill, so if you're a member of this goup, the GM might say, "Make a Make Egg Roll Ego Roll."

 

Now, there are some who make egg rolls out of Eggo waffles, while driving a Rolls...

[Basil]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

When I first saw the title to this thread I read it as:

How to: Egg Roll Wall

 

And then I imagined a wall of egg rolls. Oy!

 

Sorry, just random insanity, never mind me, I'll go now, sorry,......

If you had PS: Make Egg Rolls, your GM might tell you: "Make a Make Egg Roll Roll."

 

And in a certain secret society in China in the HERO Universe, the art of making egg rolls is an act of sheer will, so PS: Make Egg Rolls is an EGO-based skill, so if you're a member of this goup, the GM might say, "Make a Make Egg Roll Ego Roll."

 

Now, there are some who make egg rolls out of Eggo waffles, while driving a Rolls...

Ug.

 

I think we better make a rule against this sort of thing.

 

That's right, the "Ug, no Egg-Ego Rolls" Rule.

 

 

 

g, d, & r

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

If you had PS: Make Egg Rolls, your GM might tell you: "Make a Make Egg Roll Roll."

 

And in a certain secret society in China in the HERO Universe, the art of making egg rolls is an act of sheer will, so PS: Make Egg Rolls is an EGO-based skill, so if you're a member of this goup, the GM might say, "Make a Make Egg Roll Ego Roll."

 

Now, there are some who make egg rolls out of Eggo waffles, while driving a Rolls...

Sorry, but you should be shot.

 

EDIT: Oh heck. Here:

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

leggo my ego

[DangerousDan]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

Try this:

[*]Each time you cross the wall, you get a positive modifier next time

Not done.

This would, however, be a perfectly reasonable thing for the GM to rule. Given the nature of EGO and EGO Rolls it makes sense for success to raise confidence and improve successive EGO Rolls

 

Easily fixed with a (-0) limitation.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

Easily fixed with a (-0) limitation.

Or you could simply consider the previous Ego roll used for the same purpose to be a Complimentary Roll.

[actingkeith]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

This is a clear cut use of Change Environment with EGO Roll penalties. When a character hits the field they have to make an EGO Roll immediately. If they fail they can't cross.

 

I would have to completely disagree. My reason for that is that Change Environment specifically states that you shouldn't use CE for things that are done with other powers.

 

This is clearly Mind Control (don't go in there), Just like Dust Raven posted. (and later I did as well).

 

Using CE to do things that other powers are designed not a good way to go.

 

...just my opinion.

 

-k

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

I would have to completely disagree. My reason for that is that Change Environment specifically states that you shouldn't use CE for things that are done with other powers.

 

This is clearly Mind Control (don't go in there), Just like Dust Raven posted. (and later I did as well).

 

Using CE to do things that other powers are designed not a good way to go.

 

...just my opinion.

A metarule also states that no Power should be used to duplicate the effects of another Power. Wouldn't that suggestion also be using Mind Control to do something (hindering or preventing movement) that is normally done with Change Environment, Force Wall, or Entangle? I think this is an area that isn't extremely clear as being covered directly by any of these Powers, so this discussion is right on track for finding the best options to use for the effect.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

You know' date=' with my new 5ER, I might as well reread it again, just to see the changes made to Change Enviornment.[/quote']

 

Okay, it's been awhile, but I've finally had the time to actually read that monster book of gaming I picked up last weekend. I found (quite planely stated) the rules that a CE can force an affected character to make a Roll, but nothing about the effects of failing the roll. No guidelines, no balancing factors, no point costs for more adverse conditions or anything. It would seem that there is no difference between absolutely no effect (and no Roll) and something just short of duplicating another Power.

 

Okay, so I can make a CE that forces anyone in the area to make a DEX roll at -4 or drop all their accessible foci, or fall down, or slide around uncontrolled. Or I can maybe make one with a -4 to INT Rolls, but forces everybody to make an INT (at the -4 penalty) or else they can't take an action that Phase (as if they had negative INT). Why not make a similar thing with CON, make a roll or you can't spend END.

 

None of these really step on the toes of other Powers, so can fit within the structure of CE, but are they really balanced and fair? Should they cost the same as a CE that just makes everyone take a penalty to a certain roll (and then may not even affect people because they don't attempt such things there)?

 

Should I start a new thread about this, or should I just hijack this one?

[Sociotard]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

New Thread. I'll let you do the honors.

 

I say this because, at this stage, its mostly the same people looking at the thread. Most of the first ones looked at my question, gave an answer if they had one, and put it out of mind. They won't look at this thread again, even though the topic has changed to something more interesting. I would, however, post a link back to this thread.

 

Meantime, I'll go through USPD and see how many CE's I can find for examples.

[actingkeith]

Re: How to: Ego Roll Wall

 

A metarule also states that no Power should be used to duplicate the effects of another Power. Wouldn't that suggestion also be using Mind Control to do something (hindering or preventing movement) that is normally done with Change Environment' date=' Force Wall, or Entangle?[/quote']

 

Well... The power as described doesn't hinder movement... it hinders (affects) the desire/impetus/motivation to move as expressed by the original poster's comments.

 

He wants a power that will stop folks from entering a room (passing through the doorway), unless they make an EGO roll. That's Mind Control by definition.

 

Any other thoughts on the idea are merely exercises in creative rules gymnastics.

 

Ockam's Razor applies... if you've got a simple solution right in front of you that solves all your concerns... stop looking for harder stuff

 

Cheers,

 

-k