Sean Waters Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Pregnancy That actually makes sense...... Lucius Alexander The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-not? chromosome... No need to sound quite so surprised, Lucius Just a point of order, my wife actually manifested superpowers when pregnant*. It was really scary. *Well, more, anyway. She always had the death-stare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Just a point of order' date=' my wife actually manifested superpowers when pregnant*. It was really scary.[/quote'] Law of Conservation of Points. They have to go SOMEWHERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Law of Conservation of Points. They have to go SOMEWHERE. ...which leads to an interesting scenario... (nothing to do with the rest of the thread, but it tickled me ) GM: Doctor Destroyer's destructo ray hits your left arm, vapourising it... Master Blaster: Cool - that's a 10 point physical lim: can I get an extra 2d6 on my EB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy No need to sound quite so surprised, Lucius . Well, I mean, something that takes the usual kind of set-up you see in a comic book universe, and gives some kind of halfway rational explanation for it being that way..... The more I think about it, the more I think I need to rep you. Again. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary thinks we've got to remember that idea....how did it go again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy I've got a philosophical question with regard to this issue; and this thread seems an appropriate place to post it: Is the inabilty to become pregnant a Power (LS: Immunity to Pregnancy), or a Physical Disadvantage: Cannot become Pregnant? And since male characters pretty much by definition can't get pregant, should they all pay for this Power or should females get a rebate on it if they can? Is the inability to get pregnant differently costed depending on the motives/desires of the character in question? IOW, must a character pay for the LS if she doesn't want to get pregnant but take it as a Disad if she does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy I would say it depends on the character and genre. Give me that in a decade or so, I'd call it an advantage. Give it to me NOW as a permanent ability, I'd call it a disadvantage. Given that a lot of disadvantages can be considered advantages in different campaigns, depending on tone, setting and individual characters, I don't think this is terribly unique in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Well, I mean, something that takes the usual kind of set-up you see in a comic book universe, and gives some kind of halfway rational explanation for it being that way..... The more I think about it, the more I think I need to rep you. Again. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary thinks we've got to remember that idea....how did it go again? I'm bound to say something real stupid real soon: I'm sure it'll all balance out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy I'd say that the ability to choose between becoming or not becoming pregnant (ie self-regulate ovulation or somesuch) would be a power. Being sterile OTOH (regardless of gender) could be a disadvantage in some campaigns. I think, however, that characters only need to acquire those powers and disadvantages that are relevant to the campaign being played. So fertility should not be represented unless there is a reasonable probability of child-bearing becoming an issue in actual play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy I've got a philosophical question with regard to this issue; and this thread seems an appropriate place to post it: Is the inabilty to become pregnant a Power (LS: Immunity to Pregnancy), or a Physical Disadvantage: Cannot become Pregnant? And since male characters pretty much by definition can't get pregant, should they all pay for this Power or should females get a rebate on it if they can? Is the inability to get pregnant differently costed depending on the motives/desires of the character in question? IOW, must a character pay for the LS if she doesn't want to get pregnant but take it as a Disad if she does? There are several ways to model female sterility, depending on the setting. But often it is something that is part of the character conception that doesn't involve points, so it's rarely worthwhile to put it into points. Some Examples, a robotic being that is phsycially idenditcal to humans but does not reproduce at all does not get points for its inability to concieve. Such a being that CAN reproduce with humans would be very unusual, and depending on the setting may get a Watched or Hunted due to this ability (The "Thirds" of Armitage III are prime examples). In medieval societies, particularly among the nobility, a "barren" woman might have to take a Social Limitation to reflect the disdain with which she is viewed (because childbearing is considered an essential part of a noblewoman's place in society). The more important such a woman is, the more ready-made plot complications she provides. Historically, monarchs were frequently pressured to get rid of barren wives they adored in favor of women they liked much less if at all, but who could provide them with offspring. The most famous such example is Napoleon Bonaparte's divorce from Josephine. In higher-tech societies, the available technologies make having a child possible for anyone who wants one and can afford to pay for the services required. Certain classes in such a society may abandon pregnancy altogether by having the contents of their ovaries placed in storage for use as needed, making sexuality an entirely social concern rather than a biological one. In a post-apocalypitic society, where rebuilding the human population is a high priority, sterile women of normal childbearing age might be shunned or worse. On the other hand, they make superb adventurers, because most of their peers will be pregnant some 60% of the time between the ages of 13 and 45 and raising large families. Another possibility is that, depending on the nature of the catastrophe, sterility might be close to the norm and women who can breed are valued and guarded to extreme degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy I've got a philosophical question with regard to this issue; and this thread seems an appropriate place to post it: Is the inabilty to become pregnant a Power (LS: Immunity to Pregnancy), or a Physical Disadvantage: Cannot become Pregnant? And since male characters pretty much by definition can't get pregant, should they all pay for this Power or should females get a rebate on it if they can? Is the inability to get pregnant differently costed depending on the motives/desires of the character in question? IOW, must a character pay for the LS if she doesn't want to get pregnant but take it as a Disad if she does? Well, in a role playing context, unless you are playing a very particular type of game, the only kind of disadvantage I'd make 'can't become pregnant' is a psychological one, and the effect it had would very much depend on the character's attitude to the inability. If you are playing a game of generations and statecraft, perhaps a physical limitation, or even a social one... Also to take seriously something that was probably not meant to be, and to sidetrack things a little because I can't help myself...LS is something that is not by nature 'always on'....it is persistent, but you can turn persistent powers off voluntarily, so if you did buy LS: Immune to pregnancy, you could suppress it long enough to become pregnant, so it is not a bar: you get the choice with the power. Mind you I'm really not sure what sort of a game I'd be in if there was a real need for that as a power...quite possibly a darker game than I'd like to essay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Mind you I'm really not sure what sort of a game I'd be in if there was a real need for that as a power...quite possibly a darker game than I'd like to essay... One obvious example: Licensed Companions in the Firefly/Serenity universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Michael Hopcroft's post made me think; in a post apocalyptic world, that ABILITY to become pregnant might actually be worth something: how would you model that? A perk? Oh and kudos for the sig quote. For those of you who haven't seen it (and the new series of Doctor Who is WELL worth seeing), the Docotor was talking about us. Not, you know, the Hero boards discussion group. Humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Let's narrow the question down a bit: What if a female player character, of appropriate age and adequate health, wanted to be able to conceive children but knows she cannot? Even if she's not sexually active at the time, is her utter inability to conceive at any desired time in the future a Physical Limitation and/or a PsychLim? Or is it just backstory and thus not worth points either way; either as a Power or Limitation? Or might it be both? What if the LS couldn't be turned off; say bought as "Always On"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Let's narrow the question down a bit: What if a female player character, of appropriate age and adequate health, wanted to be able to conceive children but knows she cannot? Even if she's not sexually active at the time, is her utter inability to conceive at any desired time in the future a Physical Limitation and/or a PsychLim? Or is it just backstory and thus not worth points either way; either as a Power or Limitation? Or might it be both? What if the LS couldn't be turned off; say bought as "Always On"? Well, I'd still have to say 'it depends wha effect it is going to have'. If she wants to conceive she's going to spend time and money on IVF, or just assume she needs the right donor and do a lot of bone jumping. That's probably worth a psych and possibly social lim. She might be easy to bribe with a 'guaranteed new procedure' (psych lim) or people might be wary of her 'obsession' (social lim). I don't think it would apply the same way twice in different characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Well, I'd still have to say 'it depends wha effect it is going to have'. If she wants to conceive she's going to spend time and money on IVF, or just assume she needs the right donor and do a lot of bone jumping. That's probably worth a psych and possibly social lim. She might be easy to bribe with a 'guaranteed new procedure' (psych lim) or people might be wary of her 'obsession' (social lim). I don't think it would apply the same way twice in different characters. OK, that makes sense. If you're wondering where I'm going with this, I'm working on a new short story about my Champions PC Zl'f, and in it she finds out she can never have kids. Period. And she's always wanted to get married to a good man and have kids; and now she finds out she's not only essentially immortal but that she can't even bear children. I'm trying to get into her head because for obvious reasons inability to get pregnant is not something I can know about first hand. My instinct says that a person like that might well feel very alone, kind of like the Immortals in "Highlander." She can't grow old with her loved ones; all she can do is watch them die of old age. Even other immortals aren't really any help, because they've already lived for centuries. An important part of a close bond is shared experiences, and how much shared experience can an immortal 25 year old have with someone who witnessed the court of Henry VIII or the Salem Witch Trials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Re: Pregnancy ...which leads to an interesting scenario... (nothing to do with the rest of the thread, but it tickled me ) GM: Doctor Destroyer's destructo ray hits your left arm, vapourising it... Master Blaster: Cool - that's a 10 point physical lim: can I get an extra 2d6 on my EB? Heh. Seriously though, isn't that what happens? The Hero gets mangled... and then manages to dig deep and hits back, harder than they did when fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tough Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Doc sez... I'm glad that this discussion has come up...for a while I thought I was the only GM to actually have thought and written up rules about pregnancy and inheritance. I agree with a lot of what has been posted. I have to find my old rules for this situation and compare them to what has been discussed. Doc Tough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted February 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy I've got a philosophical question with regard to this issue; and this thread seems an appropriate place to post it: Is the inabilty to become pregnant a Power (LS: Immunity to Pregnancy), or a Physical Disadvantage: Cannot become Pregnant? And since male characters pretty much by definition can't get pregant, should they all pay for this Power or should females get a rebate on it if they can? Is the inability to get pregnant differently costed depending on the motives/desires of the character in question? IOW, must a character pay for the LS if she doesn't want to get pregnant but take it as a Disad if she does? I thought about this a lot. I originally was standing behind Alice when she wrote her response and agreed with her completely but I think since then I have changed. You do have to look at the nature of the game. I see three possible real ways this can come up. GM is running a game where sex can cause pregnancy: Instead of spending points, you can not have your character not have sex or buy (not pay points for) a 2/2 Armor vs. Hit Location 13 Armor with a -0 limitation of "Cannot Remove without Key or Lock Picking" Chastity belt. GM is running a grisly horror game where pregnancy can happen: Buy LS: Immune to Pregnancy to avoid tentacle-impregnated ickiness. Game rules don't matter, you have a character who is infertile as a roleplay point: 0 pt Physical Limitation (Unable to get Pregnant) 5 pt Psych Limitation (Desire to have child) The disadvantage is only really worth anything if you have someone who wants to get pregnant but can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy I'm trying to get into her head because for obvious reasons inability to get pregnant is not something I can know about first hand. If you want a male perspective on pregnancy you might try asking Karachel. * runs away * Seriously... I was wondering how might Zl'f react if she found out she was immortal, but able to bear mortal children. How would a potential mother feel if she knew she was eventually going to bury each and every one of her sons and daughters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceTheOwl Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy OK, that makes sense. If you're wondering where I'm going with this, I'm working on a new short story about my Champions PC Zl'f, and in it she finds out she can never have kids. Period. And she's always wanted to get married to a good man and have kids; and now she finds out she's not only essentially immortal but that she can't even bear children. I'm trying to get into her head because for obvious reasons inability to get pregnant is not something I can know about first hand. My instinct says that a person like that might well feel very alone, kind of like the Immortals in "Highlander." She can't grow old with her loved ones; all she can do is watch them die of old age. Even other immortals aren't really any help, because they've already lived for centuries. An important part of a close bond is shared experiences, and how much shared experience can an immortal 25 year old have with someone who witnessed the court of Henry VIII or the Salem Witch Trials? There are intensely personal reactions to this revelation. Many women go through the stages of grief when finding this out, as they mourn the children that should've been. Some try, anyway, and try to bargain their way into motherhood. Some women shrug and adopt. And there's a growing number of women who shrug and go on with their lives, seeking to make their OWN lives fulfilling, independent of any family they may or may not have had. Could be after much soul-searching, Zl'f realizes she's made a wonderful contribution to the world and will continue to do so. Or, it could be that, for a while, she withdraws into herself in grief for what might've been. Entertain the possibilities, then let her tell you how she'd react to the notion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelDoom Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy It might be worth a psyc lim if she gets hung up on the need to have children. Maybe she'd go beyond what society might consider normal with say "mad scientist" type experiments. This could be a character flaw that could tempt her to the dark side given the right (wrong) circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy There are intensely personal reactions to this revelation. Many women go through the stages of grief when finding this out, as they mourn the children that should've been. Some try, anyway, and try to bargain their way into motherhood. Some women shrug and adopt. And there's a growing number of women who shrug and go on with their lives, seeking to make their OWN lives fulfilling, independent of any family they may or may not have had. Could be after much soul-searching, Zl'f realizes she's made a wonderful contribution to the world and will continue to do so. Or, it could be that, for a while, she withdraws into herself in grief for what might've been. Entertain the possibilities, then let her tell you how she'd react to the notion. Thanks for the insight, Alice. I think this will bother her, but she'll get past it with a bit of support from her friends. And of course, who knows what might be medically possible in 200 years? What is flatly impossible in 2006 might be completely routine in 2206. By then they might be able to grow genetic clones in vitro and give her a baby... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Interesting. I spent a lot of time thinking about being immortal when I was younger and stupider (yes it is possible). I think that the implications of suddenly discovered immortality would be quite dramatic. Probably we'll start with elation: I'm not going to grow old and die. Woot! Then we start to realise that, at least in part, the limited time deal adds savour to the living. We are only immortal for such a limited time, in the (probably paraphrased) words of Mr Lee. There's a world of difference between bleieving you are going to live forever and knowing it. (cf God). It is probably around this time that some sot of depression or at least lethargy will set in. What is the rush. I'll do it next century... Then we find PURPOSE....and that purpose may well be children. As for the children thing....hmmm....well you never want anything as much as something you can't have, eh? Mind you I'd be surprised in a super-campaign if the real possibility of cloning, recombinant DNA and even alternate reality 'children' did not appear in due course, even if the normal biological reproducion method was entirely absent. Of course that's part of the problem. When we (in, you know, reality) had kids it was all too scary to think about properly so we got deliberately careless over a period of time and lo! we took the choice away from ourselves. Z'lf MAY be able to obtain some sort of offspring, but her reaction to her child will possibly be quite unhealthy in that you can harm a child with love almost as much as you can with cruelty, and the very worst thing you can do is invest your hopes and dreams in your offspring. Too much pressure. Moreover her quest to explore ways of having offspring could well result in some relatively aberrant behaviour: if it becomes an obsession, it may wel overshadow other personality aspects and relationships, changing her substantially. Of course, everyone is different: there is no 'set pattern', so these are just ideas, and not meanst to relfect any one person's reality or comment on their choices. The web is a good resource for some of the things that may come up: (this was just top of the search list: there are plenty more) http://www.asrm.org/Professionals/PG-SIG-Affiliated_Soc/MHPG/mhpgfaqs.html I have friends undergoing IVF at present. It is quite dangerous. It costs a lot of time and money and emotional effort. Best of luck sorting THIS one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy I'm sure Telios could figure out how to splice Z'lf's DNA with that of a male to create a normal human embryo with some of her characteristics and some of his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Pregnancy Entertain the possibilities' date=' then let her tell you how she'd react to the notion.[/quote'] That might be some of the best roleplaying advice for any situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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