Burning out the Speed

[White Russian]

Okay, here's my questio-- I lied. Let me present the frameowrk for my question first. I have a villain who's signature ability is to cause someone to operate at a much faster pace than they would normally, burning themselves out.

 

The way I want to do this is SPEED, Usable Against Others. I want to add the Limitation(Advantage?) that the additional phases cannot be used to rest or recover, and the use of them costs endurance either from an endurance cost on the power itself(which was/is bought on a continuing charge for the villain) or perhaps a "rider" power added to it. The idea is a boost of speed and then a burning out from loss of stun after the endurance goes(I could also try to simulate "battle drugs" in a scifi setting or the like, I suppose). I can't see a clear mechanism outside of Transform for it, however(I want to avoid the END drain as a power option).

[Steve Long]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

Since this is a "how to" question rather than a rules question, I've moved it so that anyone who's interested can comment.

 

I'll comment only to the extent of saying that what you're suggesting -- a UAA ability that imposes Limitations on the "granted" power to handicap the victim -- is generally illegal (see 5ER 275, middle right). The ability in question sounds to me more like some sort of Drain END, perhaps with Gradual Effect or the like.

[Sociotard]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

I'll agree Steve. I'd build this as Drain END, with a side effect of the person being drained getting an extra phase for every, say, 10-20 END drained. I call this a side effect because it's the problem the villian encounters whenever he uses his power.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

First off I would not discount the END drain so readily unless you have a cunning plan involving KOing...and if you do you can do a:

 

Drain END/STUN/BODY (one at a time +1/2) Must drain END if end avaialble, must drain stun if stun available (+0)

 

Sfx being that the character appears to move much quicker, and exhausts themself quickly.

 

The other think you may want to try is some sort of mind control (possibly based on CON) : use most END-expensive power, do not take voluntary recoveries, and push whenever you can.

 

That's a single command (-1/2) and is probably around EGO+10 to EGO+20, depending on the target.

 

I'd seriously leave the extra speed as sfx, unless it is really important to concept, otherwise you'll need something like this rig linked with aid speed (I wouldn't go with UAA unless I had to).

[OddHat]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

Mind Control, Single Command Only, "Rush, act now, act as fast as you can!" seems like a good call.

 

Succor SPD linked to Drain END and STUN would work.

 

Making it the plain old special effect of an Ego Attack or NND seems like the easiest build.

[austenandrews]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

Succor SPD linked to Drain END and STUN would work.

That's the direction I'd go - Succor SPD plus Drain END plus Suppress REC.

[Sociotard]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

I wouldn't use any aid variants for the spd increase unless the bad guy plans to use this to temporarily speed up his henchmen. Powers are supposed to be things that help you. Things that hinder you are either limitations or disadvantages. I can't imagine a villian being happy his foes get more actions per turn. Happy they're burning END like napalm, yes, but not getting more chances to beat him silly. That means he shouldn't have to pay points for that part of the effect (arguments about points being for players asside).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

The way I usually do this kind of thing is to build it as a a two-fixed-slot Multipower, with one slot being UBO Speed with Drain End/Stun Side Effects (this is what you would typically use on your allies) and the other being Drain End/Stun with Extra Speed Side Effects (this is what you would typically use on your enemies). I try to match the effects of the slots as best I can, and then just treat the whole thing as one Power and don't worry about, "which slot," is being used.

[austenandrews]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

I wouldn't use any aid variants for the spd increase unless the bad guy plans to use this to temporarily speed up his henchmen. Powers are supposed to be things that help you. Things that hinder you are either limitations or disadvantages. I can't imagine a villian being happy his foes get more actions per turn. Happy they're burning END like napalm' date=' yes, but not getting more chances to beat him silly. That means he shouldn't have to pay points for that part of the effect (arguments about points being for players asside).[/quote']

That's the power as stated. I assume a villain would be quite happy to use it on his own henchmen.

[pinecone]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

I think I'd first try...Drain REC, ranged, continues, uncontrolled; SE: +3 speed to target, always takes effect....if the target has no REC then he won't be taking no lousy recoverys now will he?...you probibly want to increase the recovery time as well so it takes a while to "calm down" and be able to take recoverys again....Kind of pricey, but hey, if its your main power that should be "OK"...you might also change the Drain to effect more than one stat too if you need to (like say REC and STUN +1/2)

[Dust Raven]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

That's similar to what I was thinking. A Drain [whatever] with a Side Effect, target gets some extra SPD.

 

I don't know how it'll work, or if, but what about a Transfer that shifts point from the target to the target, instead of the attacker? Might be interesting to by a Transfer REC/END (at a ratio, not with an advantage) to SPD, where the target get's the SPD.

[austenandrews]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

I don't know how it'll work' date=' or if, but what about a Transfer that shifts point from the target to the target, instead of the attacker? Might be interesting to by a Transfer REC/END (at a ratio, not with an advantage) to SPD, where the target get's the SPD.[/quote']

Now that's an interesting idea! I think Transfer UAA would achieve that. It's clean, too. I like it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

OK. How about a transformation ?

 

Major transform (to add a physical limtiation): All powers cost double END to use (and 0 END powers are treated as not having that advantage)

 

Basically the sfx are that the target speeds up, but not in a useful way: he has to have 2 goes at everything as he is not used to the speed, and gets very tired doing it.

 

That way the target appears to go faster but does not get the advantage of more speed and gets through the END like crazy - unless they just stand still, which brings its own problems in combat....

[Silbeg]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

Drain END/STUN/BODY (one at a time +1/2) Must drain END if end avaialble, must drain stun if stun available (+0)

 

Sfx being that the character appears to move much quicker, and exhausts themself quickly.

 

Very cool idea... I may have to use that myself, some time.

 

Not only is this a neat idea, but may be a decent way to model a Zat'nik'tal gun from SG1... skipping the END, that is...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

The problem with Transfer is that it confers two benefits, and either way you use this kind of power, it has one benefit and one drawback. So if you do it using Transfer you are paying double for something that has less benefit than if you paid once. Transfer is definitely not the way to go.

[austenandrews]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

The problem with Transfer is that it confers two benefits' date=' and either way you use this kind of power, it has one benefit and one drawback. So if you do it using Transfer you are paying double for something that has less benefit than if you paid once. Transfer is definitely [i']not[/i] the way to go.

You lost me. By its very nature the power we're modeling confers a benefit as well as a drawback. Why does that make Transfer the wrong choice?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

You lost me. By its very nature the power we're modeling confers a benefit as well as a drawback. Why does that make Transfer the wrong choice?

If you have a hard time picturing that, let me phrase it differently: for offensive use it would be more beneficial for the character to buy a simple Drain that did not add to the target's other trait; why then should the character pay more points for a Transfer that benefits the target in some way?

 

Conversely, if using it on an ally it would be more beneficial for the character to use a simple Aid that does not reduce the ally's other trait; why then should the character pay more points for a Transfer that harms the ally in some way?

 

EDIT: The difference is that Transfer usually harms an enemy and aids the character, both things are helpful to the character, and thus Transfer costs more than other Adjustment Powers (thus, "pay double").

[austenandrews]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

Ah, I see. From that perspective you're right, the Multipower build is more economical. But I confess, I have an intrinsic problem with SPD Aid as a Side Effect. To me the power scans more as a Transfer UAA than the more complicated MP build. Transfer UAA has a simplicity that sounds imminently more playable. With the MP I'd be consulting the Side Effect rules every game. But you're right, Transfer would be more expensive.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

Ah' date=' I see. From that perspective you're right, the Multipower build is more economical. But I confess, I have an intrinsic problem with SPD Aid as a Side Effect. To me the power scans more as a Transfer UAA than the more complicated MP build. Transfer UAA has a simplicity that sounds imminently more playable. With the MP I'd be consulting the Side Effect rules every game. But you're right, Transfer would be more expensive.[/quote']

I think the nature of the MP would actually losen up my stand on the Side Effects, especially if the two slots had (roughly) equal effect.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Burning out the Speed

 

Well, I was thinking of a Limitation on the Transform that puts the transfered points back into the target (possibly a -1/2). And yes, this puts the cost the same as Drain, and wouldn't it make more sense to just buy a Drain that didn't give out free SPD, but sometimes you might want to use this on yourself or an ally to grant them a little extra SPD now and then, and using Transfer would allow you to do that. So you are not paying more points for a drawback, you are paying points for flexibility. Two powers in one.

 

Or you can just buy a MP with two slots: A Drain END with SE: extra SPD, and an Aid SPD with SE: Drains END.