teh bunneh Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 This is for a book I'm working on in my copious spare time. I'm developing a fantasy world from scratch. I'd like to share a few pages and ask folks for their opinions -- primarily on the layout, but the writing and the details as well. There are two PDF files in the attached .zip file (slightly less than 1 meg). It's only a few pages. Any comments/advice/proofreading would be greatly appreciated. Bill. (Read "Geography Island" and then "Geography Kalon," in that order). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? I think the layout is great. However - I don't like what you've done with the sidebars. Putting information in sidebars makes it much harder to lookup and find later. I much prefer references (is Giants: see page 123, Elves: see page 85) which lead to a proper page about the subject. Or possibly examples (such as the Hero rulebook uses). Otherwise someone will read the book, want to look up giants later, and have trouble finding it. But otherwise, columns, art placement and margins are all good - except possibly for the warrior which goes over the page and may not print properly if you aren't using a professional printer (ie selling it as an ebook). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? The sidebar usage doesn't bother me as much, although I think the 'giants' piece is a bit long for a sidebar. It might go better in an inset box somewhere. Placement and type is excellent. The only other nitpick I have is with the boxes for "Capital: Tarnesia" and "Our ways are not your ways". Instead of outlined boxes, solid background colors would be better, or some kind of subtle artwork or pattern better still. (The treatment of "Kalonese Cultural Package" is not too bad.) Also, having the quote box overrunning the artwork really bothers me--the quote needs to appear as though it's behind the figure, or else it just needs to flow in that space between shoulder and sword without any border at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? My file was corrupted? I double-checked but it is all gibberish on my end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? The italic subheaders are hard for me to read, otherwise it looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted April 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? Thanks to everyone for the advice. I appreciate it! Eosin, I'll try to repost the files once I get back to a machine that has the full version of Acrobat on it. Dunno why you aren't seeing them -- they should be Adobe v6.0. My own thoughts re: the sidebars... My intention for them is to have information/flavor text that's not really crucial, but may be interesting/fun to read; something that contains a few additional details to flesh an idea out. Good idea? Bad idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? I tried it several different ways. I have the full version of acrobat included with CS2. All that I see when I open it is random strings of odd characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? I opened and glanced at the first one ("Island") with out reading any comments here. The sidebar jumped out at me also. It's too close to the edge. You should increase the white space, or this is going to looked crammed together. If you aren't going to make a dead trees version, there's no reason to go smashing stuff on a single page. I like the idea about using solid backgrouds instead of boxes, although the box design at the very start I rather like. Kinda six of one, half dozen of another to me. It needs pictures. Hire an artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted April 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? Better? (just one page this time)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? I still can't view it. This time it seems to be an issue with the compression. Winzip errors on the file. That may have been similar to the problem last time (winzip could open it but did not recognize the file as a zipped archive). Pent 4 Windows Xp Adobe CS 2 WinRAR WInzip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? I'm really stumped why you can't read it, Eosin. I'll try something else tomorrow. My computer at work has some different toys on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? It's bugging the snot out of me also. I didn't think that their wasn't much that I couldn't get at.... Would you mind sending me an unzipped version of the pdf? Eosin_the_Red@cox.net If I can open that then we know that it is the zipping. If not, I will download the reader and see if I can look at it with the free stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? It's bugging the snot out of me also. I didn't think that their wasn't much that I couldn't get at.... Would you mind sending me an unzipped version of the pdf? Done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordeanGrey Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? The layout looks good. I do have one suggestion. Use a serif font (Times, Palatino, or similar) for the main body text. Serif fonts were designed to make the eyes of the reader flow from one letter to the next. If you look at magazines, newspapers, and books you'll find that 99% of them use a serif font for the body text. The sans-serif font you are using would work good for small quotes, photo captions, etc. It's just not as readable in large blocks of text. My qualifications? I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I've been a graphic designer for 14 years in commercial publishing and printing. How big is the entire project? It looks like you have a great start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? Hah! I got it. Here are my two bits. 1. MordeanGrey is probably correct (probably because there are some schools of thought that believe computer reading is better with sans-serif but this is a minority view.) 2. An indention tells the reader that you are beginning a new paragraph. A space between paragraphs tells the reader that you are beginning a new paragraph. Have both is redundant and looks odd. Conventional manuals say pick one or the other. Ultimately, this one isn't such a big deal. 3. Your bullet text ("Eireallach" and all other instances like it). You use a different font that blows your line spacing and leaves you with an ugly gaping issue between the first line and the second. Consider placing "bullet text" above the body or fiddling with the line spacing of that font. You are gonna have issues with number 2 since it has a number of swishes/flairs embedded in it. 4. It is a pretty large file for being 10 pages. You might run into issues if it the project is large. However, now days a 20 meg file isn't the jaw dropper that it was 5 years ago. This file may not have been reduced and optimized either. Those are the "problems," such as they are... really, only issue 3 absolutely has to be addressed. The others are just non-standard forms of type setting. Now, on to the good stuff. 1. The call out boxes are great and work well. They are especially useful to break up an unillustrated page. Well done. 2. The boxed text - again, superior job. The fade is nice but printer friendly. 3. Sidebars - these are good. By the way, these should keep a sans serif font. It sorta tells the readers eye that the text is not inline with the main body. 4. Good but not outstanding selection of fonts (barring the serif issue with the body). The title fonts are readable but they could be better. Overall: This is a strong showing. Great use of space and flow to keep the page from turning into a blob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? Thanks for the advice, y'alls! I've incorporated many of the suggestions you've made. Here's the result... (considerably smaller, BTW -- I figured out why it was making such a large PDF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? Hehehe... I can open it but it blue screens into a corrupted file of death. Gotta be my Zip file. Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? Grumble grumble razzinfrazzin WinZip piece of shinola... The only question I haven't resolved yet (apart from the WinZip thing) is how to fix the kerning/spacing issues on my bullet-points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordeanGrey Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? It looks good. I think it's better with the serif font. To fix the leading under the bullet points you'll have to turn off auto leading and put in a manual number for your paragraph styles. (i.e.-- intstead of 10 pt./auto, use 10 pt./11 or something.) Auto leading will sometimes space decorative fonts different than standard fonts. Are you using InDesign from CS2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Re: Advice on Layout? MS Publisher, actually. I'd like to use InDesign, but I haven't got the bucks to drop for it. I'll try that leading fix. Thanks muchly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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