More Difficult Than Average

[David Johnston]

Art Attacks: A character has the power to curse people by painting pictures of them in danger. He can depict them being run down by a car, and they'll find themselves the victim of a hit and run. He can depict them in the grasp of a supervillain, and that supervillain will coincidentally encounter them. It takes hours to complete such a painting, it won't happen until the painting is complete and although it creates a danger for the target it certainly doesn't guarantee the outcome. The character may jump out of the way of the car, and the supervillain may in fact be defeated.

 

Now of course my inclination is just to have Art be a plot device. But could his power be represented in game stats?

[Fitz]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

Wasn't there a use of Extradimensional Movement proposed for this sort of thing? As in "character moves to dimension where the desired conditions apply"?

[dstarfire]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

sounds like a fairly good description of unluck, actually. Even though that's a disad, rather than a power, you could use transform to force it upon somebody.

 

You could also use Summon danger, variable sfx (requires some serious hand-waving, though);

[prestidigitator]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

You could build it as Precognative Clairsentience, but that might be less fun.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

A VPP, perhaps for Summons only, would seem a reasonable approach. You can place megascale range on your Summon to target the character in the painting. It bwill be heavily limited given the hours of gestures and concenration required to effect the summoning, and likely has RSR since a lousy painting may not adequately capture the image to achieve the desired result.

[Robyn]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

A VPP' date=' perhaps for Summons only, would seem a reasonable approach. You can place megascale range on your Summon to target the character in the painting. It bwill be heavily limited given the hours of gestures and concenration required to effect the summoning, and likely has RSR since a lousy painting may not adequately capture the image to achieve the desired result.[/quote']

 

Like the "Summon taxi driver" from the "Useless powers" thread?

 

Summon, "any creature" (+2), "only creatures that actually exist", "must know who creature is", "no visible power effect" (seemingly coincidental), "casting time" with Autofire? Continually tries to manipulate probability so as to arrange a coincidental meeting, but might take days or weeks with it?

[Fenixcrest]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

It could be a variable pool or multipower of various pertinent effects. RKA's, EB's, NND's, all indirect and either invisible or with variable special effects, sometimes area effect. This way, you can also do more abstract things if you want, like striking a red line across a character's limb in the painting, resulting in them suddenly getting a huge cut there.

[Alibear]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

A voodoo doll with paint. I like it. I would build it with a big VPP personally but it is a nice image.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

Now of course my inclination is just to have Art be a plot device.

Yeah, you could go with a VPP. But honestly, I think your first inclination is the way I would go. Assuming that the Artist is a villain NPC, does it really matter how many points are in his "This Too Shall Come to Pass" Art VPP? I know... stone the heaten, get a rope, etc. But as long as you understand how it works (how long it takes to complete the paintings, must he be uninterrupted, how much control he has over the outcome, etc) I'm not sure the actual build is that important. Especially given how indirect the results are.

 

Very nice idea, BTW!

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

I think a VPP for Summons is the best way to go. Defining the VPP defines the practical limit of how much danger Art can project onto them (for example, he probably couldn't just paint a picture of them next to a mushroom cloud and have a nuclear weapon attack them, or paint a picture of them in the middle of a star and have a star attack them). And using Summon as the mechanic lets you quanify the specific game mechanics for the danger itself.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

My reluctance to call it a Summons is that I can think of a number of non-combat scenarios that I would "paint people into" -- er, if I were an evil supervillain, that is... -- which I would have a hard time modeling with a summons:

• Hero's Secret ID is publically revealed
  
• Hero's DNPC falls deathly ill
  
• Hero is arrested (presumably on bogus charges)
  
• Hero's Team Jet crashes on takeoff
  
• Hero goes broke and the bank forcloses on his HQ
  
• Hero loses all his/her powers
  
• Hero loses his/her clothes (sorry, school-anxiety-dream flashback)
  
• etc

Granted, it's probably a good idea to place some limits on a power this open-ended. And maybe someone here can figure out how to plausibly do all of these with Summons. Just my 2 cp.

[prestidigitator]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

Well, you can always use the, "Summon is a big VPP," route by using Advantages to make the Summon both variable and the summoned thing loyal enough. For example, one moment you summon some kind of invisible spirit with a Cosmetic Transform to make the clothes disappear and the next moment you summon some average looking Joe reporter with a powerful Telepathy to reveal the Secret ID.

 

I don't know if I'd allow it in my campaign, but there you go.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

If I'm understanding this correctly, then the creation of the painting essentially puts the character into a deathtrap. I love this idea. If I were to stat out the effect (which, with a villain I might not do) then I would go with one of two ideas.

 

1) Summon. To conjure an effect that has a mind of it's own, I think that this is indeed the way to go. The summoned "creature" would be fully invisible , singleminded of purpose (create hazardous situation), and given enough power to carry out the attack. Probably equipped with TK, CE, Images.

 

2) Base. This gets more complex, and requires a bit of handwaving for certain effects, but I've often viewed the deathtrap as a location under control, which should be a part of any base. But then again, a mobile base is a vehicle...what about an enormous invisible/desolid vehicle...? Now i'm just getting goofy. (Not that it wouldn't work... )

 

The more I think about it, I like the Summon. The act of painting is analogous to summoning forth an evil spirit with the commend "Go forth! See that Captain Good gets run over by a car!"

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

My reluctance to call it a Summons is that I can think of a number of non-combat scenarios that I would "paint people into" -- er' date=' if I were an evil supervillain, that is...[/size'] -- which I would have a hard time modeling with a summons:

• Hero's Secret ID is publically revealed
  
• Hero's DNPC falls deathly ill
  
• Hero is arrested (presumably on bogus charges)
  
• Hero's Team Jet crashes on takeoff
  
• Hero goes broke and the bank forcloses on his HQ
  
• Hero loses all his/her powers
  
• Hero loses his/her clothes (sorry, school-anxiety-dream flashback)
  
• etc

Granted, it's probably a good idea to place some limits on a power this open-ended. And maybe someone here can figure out how to plausibly do all of these with Summons. Just my 2 cp.

 

Many good examples - and the solution may be to use the VPP without a "summon only" limitation.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

... okay, I'll come at this from a different angle then y'all have. Normally I'm all "YEAH! VPP!" My solution is as expensive and slightly less elegant, but I think is closer to the desired effect.

 

51 Eye of the Beholder: Major Transform 10d6 (Target is healed by resolving the situation or destroying the painting), Target into Target as Depicted, Variable Effects (Any situation which can be depicted in a painting, +2); Concentration (0 DCV throughout, unaware of surroundings, -1 1/2), Extra Time (6 hours, -3 1/2), Gestures (Painting, -1/4), All or Nothing (-1/2), OAF (Paints, Canvas, Brushes, -1 1/2), Requires a Skill Roll (Painting, -1/2)

[Robyn]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

51 Eye of the Beholder: Major Transform 10d6 (Target is healed by resolving the situation or destroying the painting)' date=' Target into Target as Depicted, Variable Effects (Any situation which can be depicted in a painting, +2); Concentration (0 DCV throughout, unaware of surroundings, -1 1/2), Extra Time (6 hours, -3 1/2), Gestures (Painting, -1/4), All or Nothing (-1/2), OAF (Paints, Canvas, Brushes, -1 1/2), Requires a Skill Roll (Painting, -1/2)[/quote']

 

I like it. More elegant than a VPP, which seems kind of like cheating. Leaves room for an escape route through context, too; the painting depicts you being unmasked in a public place? You just keep your powers disabled (or act like you don't have them) and arrange to show up there on a bet so you can tell the crowd of reporters that you're just pretending to be Spider-Man

[Thia Halmades]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

Exactly; the nature of the effect here can be covered almost entirely in Transform, even if at times it's a stretch. "Transform you into you hanging off a cliff." Sure, EVENTUALLY you'll hang off a cliff, and when that happens, blammo. It's also possible to limit it further - Transform must be escapable makes sense as well. This prohibits the power from "killing" people outright (you to stone) but not from getting chucked into the cement mixer (possibility of you to stone).

[Ndreare]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

... okay, I'll come at this from a different angle then y'all have. Normally I'm all "YEAH! VPP!" My solution is as expensive and slightly less elegant, but I think is closer to the desired effect.

 

51 Eye of the Beholder: Major Transform 10d6 (Target is healed by resolving the situation or destroying the painting), Target into Target as Depicted, Variable Effects (Any situation which can be depicted in a painting, +2); Concentration (0 DCV throughout, unaware of surroundings, -1 1/2), Extra Time (6 hours, -3 1/2), Gestures (Painting, -1/4), All or Nothing (-1/2), OAF (Paints, Canvas, Brushes, -1 1/2), Requires a Skill Roll (Painting, -1/2)

Nice and well thaught out. I would allow this construct for a villian in a game. (Still would not let a player have it) Good thinking.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

Thanks for the comment, Ndreare!

 

Looking at it there are a few things I'd adjust only slightly to properly reflect all of the limitations on it - I would likely include "cannot kill directly" as a limitation; in other words, I can't paint you 'dead.' While Transform does that, it's out of context for the power. Otherwise the +2 Variable SFX covers darn near everything else.

[David Johnston]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

So then he'd have to see his victim, make a targetting roll, and then go home and start his painting?

[Robyn]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

So then he'd have to see his victim' date=' make a targetting roll, and then go home and start his painting?[/quote']

 

Maybe it's like the Trumps in Roger Zelazny's "Princes of Amber" series; once you've seen them often enough, so you know their faces, you can draw them from memory. So, seeing them just once is enough to make them real in the painting.

 

Extra limitation - painter must know (have personally seen) all elements involved in the painting? If not, you could paint the victim but the supervillain in that picture wouldn't be "real", no force behind it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

So then he'd have to see his victim' date=' make a targetting roll, and then go home and start his painting?[/quote']

 

We could modify this back into the VPP, only now it's Transform Only. If your target is far away, the painter can use Megascale/AoE advantages to ensure he can target and hit his subject. If he actually has the individual in the studio posing, he can dispense with the Megascale/AoE advantages and have a considerably larger Transform, such that his powers will be more effective the closer he be to the target while painting.

 

Given the VPP will be Only Transforms, Concentration (0 DCV throughout, unaware of surroundings, -1 1/2), Extra Time (6 hours, -3 1/2), Gestures (Painting, -1/4), OAF (Paints, Canvas, Brushes, -1 1/2), Requires a Skill Roll (Painting, -1/2) [using the power as drafted], the control cost will be pretty low. In fact, you could leave off "only transforms" and leave yourself the option to use other powers where Transform doesn't fit the bill. We should make it Cosmic, as we don't need a skill roll to change the powers, so the control cost will be about 18.18% of the pool itself.

 

Assuming a 350 point character, that's a 170 point pool with a 31 point control cost and 149 points (a Heroic character) to spend on other abilities. Note that the VPP contruct has the advantage of allowing several powers to be used at the same time, if necessary to create the results of the artwork.

 

You could probably justify a No Conscious Control (-1) limitation on the control cost as well - the VPP owner decides what willl happen, but not how it will happen/what the mechanics will be. I paint Capt Hero getting the cuffs slapped on hoping he will be arrested, but he really just gets involved in a charity "Jail & Bail" event, for example.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

Good point, targeting is always an issue in HERO. Make the following adjustments:

 

46 Eye of the Beholder: Major Transform 10d6 (Target is healed by resolving the situation or destroying the painting), Target into Target as Depicted, Line of Sight (See below, +1), Megascale (10m minimum range, +1 1/4), Area of Effect (Accurate, +1/2); Concentration (0 DCV throughout, unaware of surroundings, -1 1/2), Extra Time (6 hours, -3 1/2), Gestures (Painting, -1/4), All or Nothing (-1/2), OAF (Paints, Canvas, Brushes, -2), Transform Cannot Kill Directly, (any depiction must contain an 'escape route', -1/2), Requires a Skill Roll (Painting, -0)

 

PLUS

 

20 Oil Painting Eyes: Clairsentience (Sight Group, Mobile Perception Point, x8 speed), Megascale (10m minimum, +1 1/4), OAF (Painting of Victim, -2), OAF (Small object victim has touched, a lock of hair or the like, -1), Only usable to target the victim (-1), Linked (Eye of the Beholder, -1/2),

 

I misused Variable Advantages; in this model, the Transform is doing all the work; You into You as Depicted. I modified it slightly, and to solve the targeting problem I took Presto's idea and made it manifest: the painting grants Clairsentience, which acts as "line of sight" to the target. I made LOS +1 (double) because it's a custom advantage - he can maintain LOS through the painting, which is normally a no-no.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

Hugh: read & re-read your post, I like the idea of allowing the target to get closer, but because Megascale is an expensive advantage, what I'm trying to simulate in my second crack at this is:

 

- Victim can be nearly anywhere, and Variable Advantage costs double the actual advantage applied.

 

- That still leaves the targeting issue, which is why I built in Clairvoyance (which is linked, but Eye of the Beholder is not, because it can dispense with said Clairvoyance).

 

- Per 5ER we can make it a multipower; one version which has more pop at "close range" and one which works at any range (within... the nation I think?).

 

Thoughts?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: More Difficult Than Average

 

Good point, targeting is always an issue in HERO. Make the following adjustments:

 

46 Eye of the Beholder: Major Transform 10d6 (Target is healed by resolving the situation or destroying the painting), Target into Target as Depicted, Line of Sight (See below, +1), Megascale (10m minimum range, +1 1/4), Area of Effect (Accurate, +1/2); Concentration (0 DCV throughout, unaware of surroundings, -1 1/2), Extra Time (6 hours, -3 1/2), Gestures (Painting, -1/4), All or Nothing (-1/2), OAF (Paints, Canvas, Brushes, -2), Transform Cannot Kill Directly, (any depiction must contain an 'escape route', -1/2), Requires a Skill Roll (Painting, -0)

 

On the nitpicky side:

 

- this means it doesn't work if the target sits for a portrait, as he'll be within 10 meters.

- Gestures should be Throughout for -1/2

- I'd give -1 for the OAF, not -2, on the basis they are "expendable; easily recovered" Maybe some extra for Bulky, but not a further -1, which IIRC is Immobile.

- I don't know that I'd give -1/2 for "cannot kill directly" - Transform doesn't kill anyway. That would fall into Target as Depicted

 

PLUS

 

20 Oil Painting Eyes: Clairsentience (Sight Group, Mobile Perception Point, x8 speed), Megascale (10m minimum, +1 1/4), OAF (Painting of Victim, -2), OAF (Small object victim has touched, a lock of hair or the like, -1), Only usable to target the victim (-1), Linked (Eye of the Beholder, -1/2),

 

Nitpicks:

 

- Again, I wouldn't give -2 for the painting, and I doubt I'd use the second OAF at all (why should this be required?).

 

- If I have to totally concentrate in Eye of the Beholder, how do I target using a second power? I'd handwave this given it's only to allow the power to target.

 

- I'd probably make that -1 "only to target" into -2 "only to target for Eye of the Beholder" and trash the link.

 

Actually, I might build this as a Megascale Range Detect Victim with the Targetting modifier rather than clairsentience.

 

I misused Variable Advantages; in this model' date=' the Transform is doing all the work; You into You as Depicted. I modified it slightly, and to solve the targeting problem I took Presto's idea and made it manifest: the painting grants Clairsentience, which acts as "line of sight" to the target. I made LOS +1 (double) because it's a custom advantage - he can maintain LOS through the painting, which is normally a no-no.[/quote']

 

 

I wouldn't use Variable Advantage, but a VPP. That allows for more effects, and enables the power to be scaled for different levels of advantage (if I want Megascale, 1" = 1,000 km, scaleable for +1 1/4, that leaves less AP for actual Transform dice. If I can get the target to agree to a sitting, I can have a lot more Transform dice.

 

One more nitpick: my brief scan shows EOTB as 562 AP - does the painter have the 56 END to pull this off (plus END for the Clairsentience throughout to target) or should this be 0 END?

 

I still like the VPP, since it can create issues outside the depiction of the target himself. Transform: Person into Person being attacked by Grond doesn't quite ring true. Still, it depends what effects you want the character to be able, or unable, to achieve.