Paintball Gun?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

How about a Cosmetic (some might say Minor, but I don't think it's necessary in this case) Transform with a really easy reversion condition? This would also make it a bit more difficult to affect very, "large," targets; possibly requiring multiple shots.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

How about a Cosmetic (some might say Minor' date=' but I don't think it's necessary in this case) Transform with a really easy reversion condition? This would also make it a bit more difficult to affect very, "large," targets; possibly requiring multiple shots.[/quote']

Ya know... Pondering this, I'm thinking you are absolutely and completely correct. The Entangle model really isn't needed. Its a Cosmetic transform from Clean object to Object covered in paint (primary effect: Making clear objects opaque), with suitable application of the partial transform rules, and Reversion conditions that rthe item needs to be wiped of/washed/hit with solvent (depending on how long the paint is allowed to sit)

If you want to blind someone, you have to shoot a clear object covering their eyes. If you want to blind a camera, you have to get paint on the lens. If you shoot the windsheild of a car, you only blind a very small portion of the feild of veiw (partial transform), because the windsheild has a lot more body than a pair of goggles.

 

Thee isn't any need for a flash model, because, frankly, HERO combat has never modeled specfic damage that well. Yes, getting hit in an unprotected eyeball with a paint ball will "flash" you. That doesn't need to have a mechanical model, any more than we need a mechanical model for the fact that if ANY attack were to hit an unprotected eyeball, you wouldn't be able to see.

 

Well thought through, and well done!

[Rapier]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

How's this?

 

Paintball Gun: (Total: 70 Active Cost, 19 Real Cost) Entangle 2d6, 0 DEF (Stops A Given Sense Group: Sight Group), 16 Charges (+0), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2) (45 Active Points); No Defense (-1 1/2), Does Not Hinder Movement (-1), OAF (-1), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4) (Real Cost: 9) plus Cosmetic Transform 2d6 (target into colorfully painted target, washing off paint/removing Entangle), 16 Charges (+0), Partial Transform (+1/2) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Compound Power; -1/2) (Real Cost: 6) plus EB 2d6 (vs. ED), 16 Charges (+0) (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Compound Power; -1/2) (Real Cost: 4).

I'd say that's pretty dead on. Having said that....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME!?!

 

 

 

 

28 pts for a PAINTBALL GUN!?!! CMon. I realise that your build is a geniune attempt to delineate the effects, but we are SO into Spoon territiory here.

 

If you use your sword to hack off someone's arm, should you buy the sword with a Major XForm from 4 Limbed to 3 Limbed? Of course not!! At some point you have to let SFX and dramatic license play a role.

 

There are only 2 basic points to a paintball gun. You are either trying to mark a target or you are trying to do a little bit of damage. If you are trying to do a little bit of damage, the power is EB and the "paint" is SFX. If you are marking then the power is Images that do Body. A paintball gun should not possibly cost more than a couple of points.

 

Think about it. Your design for a PaintBall Gun (28 Real Points) costs nearly as much as an M60 Light Machine Gun (2d6+1K, 10AF, +1 OCV, +2 RMod, +1 STUNx = 30 Real Points).

 

Again, let me reiterate. I agree with your design as accurate, powerwise. But the cost for the utility is out of control. You HAVE to simplify and determine your major effect of the gun and THEN (and only then) work backwards.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

I believe he was referring to the "vs ED" following the 2d6 EB. Typo.

 

It was a typo, and corrected. It's what I get when I just copy/paste out of HD.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

I can't see a paintball gun doing more than 1d6 unless you turned the compressed air up loads.

 

I've taken the odd hit where I got a bruise but with a 2d6 that could be as much as 4 body which would be breaking bones for normal people.

 

Too many trips to ER and paintballing would start to lose it's shine for most people.

 

In official paintball ranges, participants are required to wear protection, probably because it is dangerous and people can get hurt if hit in just the right (well, wrong) way. In any case, I've seen normal paintballs, in unadjusted guns, kill small furry animals (in two hits).

 

Note: I do not condone the use of paintball guns on small furry animals. In the case above, I thought the guy was joking until he actually fired. I don't hang out with him anymore.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Well, remember that in a Heroic campaign set in the present day you would not be paying the points for this. Yoyu'd simply go to the store, lay down some money, and buy yourself a painball gun (and don't forget balls, a cleaning kit and protective gear p-- most dealers to the "sport" trade won't let you leave the store without protective gear).

 

A Champions character who wainted the effects of a paintball gun as part of their arsenal or modus operandi would, of course, pay the points. A stepped-up version of this would be perfect for a "theme villain".

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

I'd say that's pretty dead on. Having said that....

 

ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME!?!

Yes and no. 70 active and 28 real is a bit much for something like a paintball gun... unless there's a character that's planning on using it regularly for the purposes of using the mechanics used in the build. In a number of Heroic (as opposed to Superheroic) campaigns, a paintball gun in the right hands is a powerful tool, though not a deadly one.

 

 

 

28 pts for a PAINTBALL GUN!?!! CMon. I realise that your build is a geniune attempt to delineate the effects, but we are SO into Spoon territiory here.

 

If you use your sword to hack off someone's arm, should you buy the sword with a Major XForm from 4 Limbed to 3 Limbed? Of course not!! At some point you have to let SFX and dramatic license play a role.

 

There are only 2 basic points to a paintball gun. You are either trying to mark a target or you are trying to do a little bit of damage. If you are trying to do a little bit of damage, the power is EB and the "paint" is SFX. If you are marking then the power is Images that do Body. A paintball gun should not possibly cost more than a couple of points.

 

Think about it. Your design for a PaintBall Gun (28 Real Points) costs nearly as much as an M60 Light Machine Gun (2d6+1K, 10AF, +1 OCV, +2 RMod, +1 STUNx = 30 Real Points).

 

Again, let me reiterate. I agree with your design as accurate, powerwise. But the cost for the utility is out of control. You HAVE to simplify and determine your major effect of the gun and THEN (and only then) work backwards.

 

How deadly a game mechanic is should not be the only factor in determing it's value in game. The paintball gun I wrote up is a very powerful/useful tool, about as useful as your light machine gun. It just does something different (simultaneously marks the target, damages the target and hinders the target's senses). Any attack/maneuver that follows the use of this paintball gun is going to be much more effective (or at least have a much greater chance of hitting the target).

 

I do see what you are saying though. It's just as valid to put the three Powers I've Linked togeter into separately slots of a MP, and have the attack just use whichever slot suits his purpose at the time.

 

Also, the cost goes down a bit if you apply a Limitation on the Entangle so it only applies if the head is hit. Makes no sense to blind someone if you shoot them in the chest or leg (though the damage/paint effect should still apply).

[Rapier]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Yes and no. 70 active and 28 real is a bit much for something like a paintball gun... unless there's a character that's planning on using it regularly for the purposes of using the mechanics used in the build. In a number of Heroic (as opposed to Superheroic) campaigns, a paintball gun in the right hands is a powerful tool, though not a deadly one.

 

How deadly a game mechanic is should not be the only factor in determing it's value in game. The paintball gun I wrote up is a very powerful/useful tool, about as useful as your light machine gun. It just does something different (simultaneously marks the target, damages the target and hinders the target's senses). Any attack/maneuver that follows the use of this paintball gun is going to be much more effective (or at least have a much greater chance of hitting the target).

 

I do see what you are saying though. It's just as valid to put the three Powers I've Linked togeter into separately slots of a MP, and have the attack just use whichever slot suits his purpose at the time.

 

Also, the cost goes down a bit if you apply a Limitation on the Entangle so it only applies if the head is hit. Makes no sense to blind someone if you shoot them in the chest or leg (though the damage/paint effect should still apply).

 

Ok, I can see where you are coming from. In a Champions game, I've no problem with the full on build. I was more thinking of just a regular normal build of maybe on the outside Dark Champions.

 

I agree that there should be more involved in comparing powers than simply effect in combat, but its the easiest yard-stick to dig out!

 

I think I would be, more than anything, inclined to go with Images that Do Body. Its simpler and a heck of a lot cheaper!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

I think I would be, more than anything, inclined to go with Images that Do Body. Its simpler and a heck of a lot cheaper!

 

How would you write it up with Images without making it 0 END, Persistant, UAA and Uncontrolled? Even without Does BODY, it doesn't sound cheap. A Cosmetic Transform that has Partial Transform seems best to me. One shot isn't going to completely coat the target, but enough will (or coat him enough that it can't be hidden easily).

[Alibear]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

In official paintball ranges' date=' participants are required to wear protection, probably because it is dangerous and people [i']can[/i] get hurt if hit in just the right (well, wrong) way. In any case, I've seen normal paintballs, in unadjusted guns, kill small furry animals (in two hits).

 

Note: I do not condone the use of paintball guns on small furry animals. In the case above, I thought the guy was joking until he actually fired. I don't hang out with him anymore.

 

 

Pd of small furry animal, 0?

 

Body of small furry animal, 2 or 3?

 

Could it be possible with 1d6?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Pd of small furry animal, 0?

 

Body of small furry animal, 2 or 3?

 

Could it be possible with 1d6?

 

Possible? Certainly.

 

I just think it's closer to 2d6, but with only a guess as to the BODY and PD of a prairie dog there is no wrong solution.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

I see transform has already been suggested. However, wouldn't a low die, NND , Can be Missile Defelcted Transform be more appropriate?

 

I mean, there are few SFX's for power defense that would justify immunity to being painted on, but somone with control over friction or a forcefield could probably get away with it.

 

Just a thought.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

I see transform has already been suggested. However, wouldn't a low die, NND , Can be Missile Defelcted Transform be more appropriate?

 

I mean, there are few SFX's for power defense that would justify immunity to being painted on, but somone with control over friction or a forcefield could probably get away with it.

 

Just a thought.

 

I thought about including NND on the Transform in my build, but decided that it wasn't worth the cost. SFX rules in this case and the target just gets painted unless there's a good reason why he shouldn't. It's kind of like getting a free NND, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a step down from it already being effectively AVLD.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Have we officially adopted the term "a spoon" to refer to making a complex, fully statted-out build for a mundane item when there is no real need to do so?

 

How would you build sploshing a bucket of paint on someone?

 

A paintball gun: 1d6 EB, Limited Range, Charges to taste, OAF ~2 points.

(2d6 if you want, but that could do 2 BODY to a normal person, which seems excessive to me.)

 

All the rest is SFX.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Have we officially adopted the term "a spoon" to refer to making a complex' date=' fully statted-out build for a mundane item when there is no real need to do so?[/quote']

 

Mundane items don't need to be stated out, and doing so I guess is "building a spoon" in heroese. Of course, if a particular character wants to use a mundane item in an unusual way, or for an unusual effect (for that item), stating it out is appropriate. For a paintball gun, it's all in how it's used, and how "realistic" the GM and player want it to be. For a realistic paintball gun, your EB build (adjusted to taste) is great. For one that is regularly used to blind and/or mark opponents, it's lacking.

 

but that could do 2 BODY to a normal person, which seems excessive to me.)

 

Put Reduced Penetration on it.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Yes. RedPen is good.

 

My post was based on the original request of this thread: "an ordinary paintball gun".

 

And if you hit someone in the eyes/glasses/goggles with it, it obscures their vision until they wipe it off. Note that it isn't just "the face" - hitting them in the chin or the cheek or the forehead, probably won't blind them. A hit in an unprotected eye, will probably cause a black eye (swollen closed) at the very least. All this for no additional points, just like any other mundane item that you might hit someone in the eye with.

 

"Don't play with that! You'll put someone's eye out!"

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

"Building a spoon...."

 

Anyone want to try their hand at statting lout the supervillain Spoonman (who steals the rythmn while he can!) and his deadly arsenal of trick spoons?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

"Building a spoon...."

 

Anyone want to try their hand at statting lout the supervillain Spoonman (who steals the rythmn while he can!) and his deadly arsenal of trick spoons?

 

Ah, the arch-nemisis of the Blue Rajah!

[Adventus]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Yes. RedPen is good.

 

My post was based on the original request of this thread: "an ordinary paintball gun".

 

And if you hit someone in the eyes/glasses/goggles with it, it obscures their vision until they wipe it off. Note that it isn't just "the face" - hitting them in the chin or the cheek or the forehead, probably won't blind them. A hit in an unprotected eye, will probably cause a black eye (swollen closed) at the very least. All this for no additional points, just like any other mundane item that you might hit someone in the eye with.

 

"Don't play with that! You'll put someone's eye out!"

 

You could if the person Froze the balls first. And turned up the air in their gun. It would do a lot more damage then.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

You could if the person Froze the balls first. And turned up the air in their gun. It would do a lot more damage then.

 

And let them thaw while you hunt for bad guys? Just use stone or metal slugs and you've got BB shotgun.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Have we officially adopted the term "a spoon" to refer to making a complex' date=' fully statted-out build for a mundane item when there is no real need to do so?[/quote']

 

[Robyn]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

And let them thaw while you hunt for bad guys? Just use stone or metal slugs and you've got BB shotgun.

 

Forget metal and stone, just freeze one of your enemies, then carry them around while you hunt for more enemies. Need more ammo? Take your handy, trusty spoon and carve a piece off.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Forget metal and stone' date=' just freeze one of your [i']enemies[/i], then carry them around while you hunt for more enemies. Need more ammo? Take your handy, trusty spoon and carve a piece off.

Admittedly, the pic of a spoon I used for that card always has reminded me more than a little bit of a shallow ice cream scoop...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Forget metal and stone' date=' just freeze one of your [i']enemies[/i], then carry them around while you hunt for more enemies. Need more ammo? Take your handy, trusty spoon and carve a piece off.

 

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Robyn again."

[Dust Raven]

Re: Paintball Gun?

 

Admittedly' date=' the pic of a spoon I used for that card always [i']has[/i] reminded me more than a little bit of a shallow ice cream scoop...

 

It looks like the "baby spoon" I used to feed my son pureed bananas with.