atlascott Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 What's with a non-refundable $10 deposit, with a proviso that if DOJ decides NOT to produce the book, they keep the $10 anyway? If they are using the $10 down payment as a way to gauge interest, they are also artificially curbing the number of people who might buy it by making it non-refundable, non-recourse if nothing is ever produced. A very strange decision for a consumer products company, and one without precedent, as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Souljourner Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit That's not what they said. They said they WILL refund it if they decide not to make the book. You just can't change your mind and get your money back. That's what they mean by non-refundable. I do agree that they need to make that more clear, however, since I had to read it twice to figure that out. -Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit That's not what they said. They said they WILL refund it if they decide not to make the book. You just can't change your mind and get your money back. That's what they mean by non-refundable. I do agree that they need to make that more clear, however, since I had to read it twice to figure that out. -Nate Actually, I think the OP read it correctly and you are reading things into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlascott Posted May 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit What needs to be more clear than this (direct quote from Online Store) "The down payment is nonrefundable. If for some reason Hero Games is unable or unwilling to produce C25, your $10 will not be returned to you. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit atlascott, I think you're fretting over nothing. I think the chances of them failing to publish the anniversary edition, and just skipping away with everyone's $10, are so vanishingly small as to be virtually non-existant. I'm sure they just had to include such language to protect themselves in the event that some Act of God occurs. To put it another way, I think the only way C25 doesn't get made is if DoJ suddenly goes out of business, and if they suddenly go out of business, they wouldn't be able to pay back the $10 anyway, and (as HERO players) the loss of $10 is a much lesser blow than seeing the property go defunct again. Consider... if they weren't really going to publish it, why would they have (for example) had Steve spend his valuable time updating The Island of Doctor Destroyer? Or Andy laying it out? Why would they have damaged their relations in the industry by getting testamonials from past Champions/HERO System luminaries, if those testamonials were not destined to see print? And most importantly, they'd have to be insane to risk alienating their hardest-core fans -- which is who C25 is primarily aimed at, obviously -- by stealing $10 each from them. If they were up to no good, and just wanted to rip everyone off, they'd have pre-sold the book, and gotten full-price from their fans before stabbing them in the back. But this is all irrelevant, because they're going to publish the book. In fact, I'm so sure they're going to publish the book, I'll assume the down payment "risk" for you for a paltry 20% fee. In other words, I'll put up your $10 down payment. If they don't publish the book, I'll eat the loss. But if they do publish it, you pay me back $12. Deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Putting all the fan-boy glee to the side, the money's probably not refundable simply because it'd be too much of a hastle to make the online store's software refund the $10 to everyone's account if the deal fell through. By the time you factor in credit card fees and time involved between prepay and purchase it'd just be a nightmare for DoJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Putting all the fan-boy glee to the sideSo do you think they're going to fail to publish the book? If not, can I assume that makes you a "fan-boy" too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit It's legal CYA. Nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit So do you think they're going to fail to publish the book? If not' date=' can I assume that makes you a "fan-boy" too? [/quote'] I'd find it almost hard to believe that DoJ won't publish the book. I have no idea how many prepaid [$100 is a big nut for some to crack] but I'd think there must be at least 150 that'd buy it. For all I know though DoJ might only have 60 orders in so far. I'd say there's at least a 13- chance the book will get published though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit I'd find it almost hard to believe that DoJ won't publish the book. I have no idea how many prepaid [$100 is a big nut for some to crack] but I'd think there must be at least 150 that'd buy it. For all I know though DoJ might only have 60 orders in so far. I'd say there's at least a 13- chance the book will get published though. I don't think anyone prepaid (as far as I know, that wasn't even an option). I'd make it more like a 17- chance, but otherwise we agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Souljourner Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Sorry, guys, my bad. I just couldn't conceive of anyone trying to get people to give them a $10 deposit that could just get frittered away into nothing. I don't see any reason why they couldn't give people their money back. They keep track of who paid so they know who the books go to, right? Easy enough to use that info to pay people back. If it's such an unlikely occurance, why not just allow for it, and deal with it if it happens? -Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit I don't think anyone prepaid (as far as I know' date=' that wasn't even an option). I'd make it more like a 17- chance, but otherwise we agree. [/quote'] Sorry, when I said prepay I meant down payment. I see the program as a prepay program myself [you prepay some of the money and agree to pay the rest later]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit If I had the money, I'd do it. Hell, if I had the money, I'd pay for it up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Sorry, guys, my bad. I just couldn't conceive of anyone trying to get people to give them a $10 deposit that could just get frittered away into nothing. I don't see any reason why they couldn't give people their money back. They keep track of who paid so they know who the books go to, right? Easy enough to use that info to pay people back. If it's such an unlikely occurance, why not just allow for it, and deal with it if it happens? -Nate From all the things I've prepaid or preorder for a non-refundable deposit (or in some cases full prepayment) is pretty standard really. In fact, I have 2 CDs on preorder right now as well as C25 and all of them are "non-refundable." payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Hey guys! The book will get published, barring an act of God on the level of earthquake, fire, meteor strike, etc. The protective language is there because in some areas, putting down a down payment like that has been read by some courts to mean that if the book didn't come out, we could be sued for the value of the whole promised book, not just the down payment. (I didn't say it made sense.) So if we were struck be a meteor while holding these prepayments, we could in theory wind up liable for a whole lot more than we brought in. I think this is all trebly unlikely (that we would have a disaster, that in the case of such a disaster our fans would try to sue us, and if they sued us that they'd win), but Hero is a belt-and-suspenders operation when it comes to this sort of thing. Nothing else is meant by the CYA language- our side of the production is about done, we'll be wrapping up the preorder period in a few days, and then the book heads off to the small printer we've contracted with, still on target as of now for the book to show up at Origins at the end of June. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egyptoid Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Is it time for more opinions on those who can't afford it ? Just call me when it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Sorry, guys, my bad. I just couldn't conceive of anyone trying to get people to give them a $10 deposit that could just get frittered away into nothing. I don't see any reason why they couldn't give people their money back. They keep track of who paid so they know who the books go to, right? Easy enough to use that info to pay people back. If it's such an unlikely occurance, why not just allow for it, and deal with it if it happens? I agree. No matter how likely it is to be published, that is just bad business. Terrible business. I wouldn't go into such a deal even if I was desperate for the product. I forfeit the money because I decide to back out? Fine. I forfeit the money because you decide to back out, and I get no benefit? B.S. I wonder if this would even stand up in court, despite the agreement (there are lawyers in the employ, though, so I suspect they probably have done their homework more than I have). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit I agree. No matter how likely it is to be published' date=' that is just bad business. Terrible business. I wouldn't go into such a deal even if I was desperate for the product. I forfeit the money because [i']I[/i] decide to back out? Fine. I forfeit the money because you decide to back out, and I get no benefit? B.S. I wonder if this would even stand up in court, despite the agreement (there are lawyers in the employ, though, so I suspect they probably have done their homework more than I have). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit You're right, you've uncovered our fiendish plan. With all our ill-gotten gains we plan to slip off to Puerto Vallarta, with hookers and blow for everyone! Then, we'll build the orbital lasers! And of course, after that... what's that? How many preorders have we got? No orbital lasers? OK, so what about the hookers and blow? Not even in Richmond? Pizza and cokes at my apartment? Damn. Maybe we should just print the book, then. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Souljourner Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit I don't think anyone thinks you're doing it for any reason other than to cover your asses... we just kinda think it's one step beyond necessary. A simple "if it doesn't get published, our liability will be limited to refunding the deposit and no more" would work as well to prevent people from suing over it, and would make the 99.99999999% of people who wouldn't even dream of suing you over it a lot more comfortable. *shrug* I'm no lawyer, so you might be doing the best you can, but I swear I've seen this sort of thing before where they did it my way. -Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit I'm no lawyer' date=' so you might be doing the best you can, but I swear I've seen this sort of thing before where they did it my way.[/quote']Since Steve *is* a lawyer, he probably knows what he's doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit I'm no lawyer, so you might be doing the best you can, but I swear I've seen this sort of thing before where they did it my way. -Nate I agree it's completely unnecessary from any sort of reasonable view. However, Steve IS a lawyer, so I'm going with his advice. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjamma4 Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Where do I send in my $50 for an original piece of artwork? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Where do I send in my $50 for an original piece of artwork? Tina's still picking out the right kind of napkin... dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjamma4 Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Re: C25 deposit Do I have to supply the crayons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.