"Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

[Icel]

Many game systems as a "Critical Strike" mechanism to simulate hitting important organs HERO has Hit Locations.

I want to simulate a Rogue ability to hit critical spots, Like some talents in World of Warcraft that gives you x% crit chance.

I figured that something like +OCV (Only to negate Hit Locations Penalty) would work.

How much do this limitation cost?

 

Do you have other ideas?

[Bloodstone]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

It's already in the system. Targeting Skill Levels. 5ER p 66-67. It's a type of Penalty Skill Level.

[Icel]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Oh... Okay, thank you.

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Another method of modeling the ability is to have the character buy extra DCs with a Limitation, such as Activation, RSR or Charges, to simulate the extra damage they do with such "critical" strikes. This works in games that don't use Hit Locations, but could get complicated in games where characters don't pay points for equipment (the GM needs to handwave the issue of stacking a purchased attack power with the damage of any given weapon).

[Icel]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Another Rogue related question:

If I get ambidexterity with "only when using daggers", how much this limitation cast?

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Another rouge related question:

If I get ambidexterity with "only when using daggers", how much this limitation cast?

 

Depends on the character and the campaign. If daggers are the character's only effective method of attack, then the Limitation is -0 or close to it. If the character has several more useful methods of attack available, or doesn't even know how to use daggers (in a heroic game and doesn't have the WF), then it's probably worth a LOT more.

 

That probably wasn't very helpful now that I think about it...

[Icel]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Heroic fantasy game, where the character knows how to use daggers but also other weapons, she has "blades" as WF.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Another rouge related question:

If I get ambidexterity with "only when using daggers", how much this limitation cast?

 

Rather than put a limitation on Ambidexterity, I would go back to the book and figuire out the Penalty Skill Level cost for use of off hand only using daggers. That would be the lowest level of PSL, in my opinion.

 

A question back at you - why can't blushes, mascaras, lipsticks and eyeliners also use these powers? Perhaps the word you are trying to use is "Rogue"? Personal pet peeve, sorry.

[Icel]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Rather than put a limitation on Ambidexterity, I would go back to the book and figuire out the Penalty Skill Level cost for use of off hand only using daggers. That would be the lowest level of PSL, in my opinion.

 

A question back at you - why can't blushes, mascaras, lipsticks and eyeliners also use these powers? Perhaps the word you are trying to use is "Rogue"? Personal pet peeve, sorry.

Ah... Amm... Oops?

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

I always imagined the rogue critical/backstab ability as being Find Weakness.

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Find Weakness is another great way to simulate making a critical strike. The only problem is that once the roll is made, all further attacks are considered critical, which doesn't mesh well with the concept of "this one attack is special".

 

Oh, and going directly to PSLs is a great idea! Automaticlaly solves any issue of creating a Limitation.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Also, in Fantasy & the Combat Handbook, Steve gives a mechanic for determining if a hit is a natural critical strike (i.e., deals double damage). It's one of the two things I always thought was 'missing' from HERO (that and saving throws).

 

The boys are correct, though - if you have Fantasy Hero, you'll want to look up the talent Deadly Blow. Deadly Blow will allow you to purchase additional Damage Classes to meet a specific weapon or circumstance. Often, Deadly Blow is purchased with either Charges (limited use per day, such as a Paladin's Smite ability) or Requires a Skill Roll (the acronym 'RSR' that was referred to earlier).

 

Requires a Skill Roll is a simple way of determining whether a hit was a critical hit or not; it can be modified based on circumstances and improved by the player so the power works more often. In d20, there is rarely a call for RSR, although it's commonly used in their Psionics System (make a Skill Roll to gain Psionic Focus, then they built a bunch of powers with the requirement, "Psionic Focus." It was clever, even if clearly ripped straight from Hero, still clever).

 

Anyway. Does that help?

[pinecone]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

You can also buy this as aproperly constructed "Deadly blow" such as "Only with daggars or "Only suprise attacks" Or one of each and be the master knifefighter/assasain...

[pinecone]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Find Weakness is another great way to simulate making a critical strike. The only problem is that once the roll is made, all further attacks are considered critical, which doesn't mesh well with the concept of "this one attack is special".

 

Oh, and going directly to PSLs is a great idea! Automaticlaly solves any issue of creating a Limitation.

Well you can buy "Find weakness (X) Backstabs"...then all you future backstabs have it for this encounter....that pesky Hero system, it does too much!

[prestidigitator]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Well you can buy "Find weakness (X) Backstabs"...then all you future backstabs have it for this encounter....that pesky Hero system' date=' it does too much![/quote']

Agreed. You can limit Find Weakness just like you can extra DC's, CSLs, or whatever. Do people forget this so easily?

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Well you can buy "Find weakness (X) Backstabs"...then all you future backstabs have it for this encounter....that pesky Hero system' date=' it does too much![/quote']

 

You'd still have to define some maneuver or power as "backstab" though, which means all you already have to have bought the backstab ability some other way.

[pinecone]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

You'd still have to define some maneuver or power as "backstab" though' date=' which means all you already have to have bought the backstab ability some other way.[/quote']

 

Well I don't think so...I beleive that you define what you find weakness with ,"backstabs/suprise attacks sounds like an easaly defined "manuever" like any other....YMMV, but for me Ninja master Joe is welcome to take "Find weakness (X) Suprise attacks" or even "Attacks vs foes with impaired DCV" I'm not talking taking a lim here...just defining what you find weakness with...

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Well I don't think so...I beleive that you define what you find weakness with ' date='"backstabs/suprise attacks sounds like an easaly defined "manuever" like any other....YMMV, but for me Nija master Joe is welcome to take "Find weakness (X) Suprise attacks" or even "Attacks vs foes with impaired DCV" I'm not talking taking a lim here...just defining what you find weakness with...[/quote']

I suppose you can go that route, but the attack must be easily differentiated from any normal attack the character might make. He can't just sit there every turn and say "I'm backstabbing him again" regardless of maneuver or circumstances. The only problem I'd have with defining a backstab as "foe has reduced/impaired DCV" is how would the character know? DCV is just a game mechanic, and there is really no way for a character to know if a target's DCV has been impared, reduced voluntarily or normal.

 

One thing that can be done is to limit it to Surprise maneuvers (which can be relatively easy to define... either the target makes is PER roll or it's a rather nasty surprise), or attacks in which the attacker receives a multiple attacker bonus (unlike a target with an impaired DCV, the attacker will know his own OCV is improved, or rather he'd know his chances of hitting are improved regardless of the target's ability to avoid being hit; he would have no knowledge of the game mechanic describe that).

[pinecone]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

I suppose you can go that route, but the attack must be easily differentiated from any normal attack the character might make. He can't just sit there every turn and say "I'm backstabbing him again" regardless of maneuver or circumstances. The only problem I'd have with defining a backstab as "foe has reduced/impaired DCV" is how would the character know? DCV is just a game mechanic, and there is really no way for a character to know if a target's DCV has been impared, reduced voluntarily or normal.

 

One thing that can be done is to limit it to Surprise maneuvers (which can be relatively easy to define... either the target makes is PER roll or it's a rather nasty surprise), or attacks in which the attacker receives a multiple attacker bonus (unlike a target with an impaired DCV, the attacker will know his own OCV is improved, or rather he'd know his chances of hitting are improved regardless of the target's ability to avoid being hit; he would have no knowledge of the game mechanic describe that).

 

I see what you're saying but to me a "lowered DCV" is a visable effect..."He's open!" In my former days I did some fighting, and at least for me, it Seemed as though I could see "an opening". And of course if someone slips or overcomits to an attack (like say a Haymaker?) Thats also "seeable"...Like all things as long as the GM and the player agree in advance what a word Means, then there should be no problem later.

 

Though it can cause some esoteric conversations. A friend of mine had a pro-wrassler who had a "Righteous Wrassler Recovery"( a fair sized simplified Healing nowadays) that only worked with a cheering crowd...if I recall we agreed that a "crowd" was more than 3 persons, that you did not know...so followers and DNPCs can be in a crowd, but the "crowd" was only persons you don't know....

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Just from personal experience, I would go with the Deadly Blow ability and buy extra damage that required a skill roll or had whatever limitation suited your conception of the power rather than buy penalty skill levels against hit locations.

 

I did the latter with an assassin-type character and it made him kind of all-or-nothing in combat. Either he made the head shot which was virtually certain to take out his foe (x2 BDY and x5 STN muliplier for a killing attack) or he missed completely. It kind of took the problem with the STN lotto and made it even more extreme. Just my 2 cents.

 

___________________________________________________________

"Some people spread joy wherever they go. Others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde

[Rapier]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

That works real well if you use Hit Locations regularly.

 

I've also stolen a set of Critical Hit/Fumbles charts from my very first Hero GM (Thanks, Alan!). The Crits are based upon exceeding the minimum To Hit by a certain value. I've created characters who have OCV Levels (Only to Determine Critical Hits).

 

Here is a link to my custom screens: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=864035#post864035

[CourtFool]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

Another Rogue related question:

If I get ambidexterity with "only when using daggers", how much this limitation cast?

 

1 WF: Off Hand

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

1 WF: Off Hand

 

That's such a duh I should smack myself.

[prestidigitator]

Re: "Lethality", Improve Critical Chance

 

I did the latter with an assassin-type character and it made him kind of all-or-nothing in combat. Either he made the head shot which was virtually certain to take out his foe (x2 BDY and x5 STN muliplier for a killing attack) or he missed completely. It kind of took the problem with the STN lotto and made it even more extreme. Just my 2 cents.

What I do to tone down the abuse of PSLs against Hit Locations is rule that you cannot make a called shot against a particular Hit Location. Well, you can, but if the target isn't surprised you use the more specific random Hit Locations charts (Head Shot, High Shot, Body Shot, etc.; you use whichever one you like that includes your desired location). If the random location comes up with the location you actually wanted to hit (like the head), then you still get to choose the precise location number and area (so if you roll a 5 you hit the head and can still choose to hit location 3--still on the head--if, for example, that's the area of the head left uncovered by a helmet). For calling out the specific location (number; like 3 in the above example) I use the penalty for the specific location chart being used (e.g. -2 for a Low Shot) with an additional -1 penalty.