Sectional Defences

[mayapuppies]

Hello all,

 

I'm trying to write-up a Chainmail Shirt that covers the Shoulders, arms, chest, stomach and vitals (hit locations 7-13). Unfortuantely all of the examples cover vests and then leap to jacket and helmets.

 

What should the limitation be for this?

[azato]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Hello all,

 

I'm trying to write-up a Chainmail Shirt that covers the Shoulders, arms, chest, stomach and vitals (hit locations 7-13). Unfortuantely all of the examples cover vests and then leap to jacket and helmets.

 

What should the limitation be for this?

 

If character fall in water that is over his head, he drowns (-2)

[Fitz]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

What's the probablity of rolling 7-13 on 3d6? I don't recall off-hand, but I think it's about 60%, so your armour won't work 40% of the time -- I'd give it -3/4.

[Old Man]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

You don't really need a Limitation on such a thing in Fantasy Hero do you?

 

Oh I get it. You're making magic armor. hmmm...

 

You know mixing the bits is kinda hard. You have both Hit Locations and Activation Rolls. I'd say just go with Activation Roll as far as finding a Limitation and the Special Effect is that it only covers certain bits of the wearer.

[Chiba Bob]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Covers

# of Locs .....Limitation

 

...1-2................-2

.....3...............-1 1/2

.....4...............-1 1/4

....5-7...............-1

....8-12.............-3/4

...13-14.............-1/2

.....15...............-1/4

 

Armor covering Locs 7-13, covers 7 locations and would have a -1 Lim.

[Old Man]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Which is actually not balanced, since locations do not all have the same value. Location 13 is not the same as location 18. A hauberk (locations 7-14) gets in the way of 80% of all hits but still gets a -3/4 limitation?

 

edit: It occurs to me that the ultimate use of that limitation table would be a hooded vest: covers locations 3-5 and 10-13 for a -1 lim.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Hello all,

 

I'm trying to write-up a Chainmail Shirt that covers the Shoulders, arms, chest, stomach and vitals (hit locations 7-13). Unfortuantely all of the examples cover vests and then leap to jacket and helmets.

 

What should the limitation be for this?

 

7 - 13 is in the natural curve of the bell, so thats really the most prime real estate for hit locations.

 

It would be somewhere between a -3/4 and a -1.

 

I'd go with -1 as its clearly more limiting than having a Full Cov Helmet, Long Jacket and High Boots which is -3/4, and is roughly comparable to Helmet and Jacket which is -1.

[Frenchman]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

The way I do this is to add up the % chance that a covered location is hit, then compare that to an activation roll. The following numbers are swiped from here, but you can find 'em other places too.

 

Result Probability Probability

of Result of Result

or Less

3 0.4629% 0.4629%

4 1.8518% 1.3888%

5 4.6296% 2.7777%

6 9.2592% 4.6296%

7 16.2037% 6.9444%

8 25.9259% 9.7222%

9 37.5000% 11.5740%

10 50.0000% 12.5000%

11 62.5000% 12.5000%

12 74.0740% 11.5740%

13 83.7962% 9.7222%

14 90.7407% 6.9444%

15 95.3703% 4.6296%

16 98.1481% 2.7777%

17 99.5370% 1.3888%

18 100.0000% 0.4629%

 

So you add up the %s in the second column and compare it to the first column, then find out the limitation for an activation roll of that or less.

So you've got 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, & 13 - thats 74.5 and some more numbers% Almost exactly a 12- roll.

So I'd say this one is worth -3/4

 

PS - For values lower than 8-, I use:

 

3- -5

4- -4

5- -3

6- -2 1/2

7- -2 1/4

 

If you extrapolated from the book, each number below 8- would 'increase' the limitation by another -1/4, but starting at 6- the percentages begin halving themselves.

Hope that helped

 

Edit: Ack, sorry for any wrapping issues you may have experienced, I've fixed it.

[Markdoc]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Which is actually not balanced, since locations do not all have the same value. Location 13 is not the same as location 18. A hauberk (locations 7-14) gets in the way of 80% of all hits but still gets a -3/4 limitation?

 

edit: It occurs to me that the ultimate use of that limitation table would be a hooded vest: covers locations 3-5 and 10-13 for a -1 lim.

 

A hooded byrnie, or a hauberk and helmet, like the ones that were so popular in real life ?

 

Now we know why - they got a -1 Lim!

 

cheers, Mark

[mayapuppies]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

The way I do this is to add up the % chance that a covered location is hit' date=' then compare that to an activation roll. The following numbers are swiped from here, but you can find 'em other places too.

 

Result Probability Probability

of Result of Result

or Less

3 0.4629% 0.4629%

4 1.8518% 1.3888%

5 4.6296% 2.7777%

6 9.2592% 4.6296%

7 16.2037% 6.9444%

8 25.9259% 9.7222%

9 37.5000% 11.5740%

10 50.0000% 12.5000%

11 62.5000% 12.5000%

12 74.0740% 11.5740%

13 83.7962% 9.7222%

14 90.7407% 6.9444%

15 95.3703% 4.6296%

16 98.1481% 2.7777%

17 99.5370% 1.3888%

18 100.0000% 0.4629%

 

So you add up the %s in the second column and compare it to the first column, then find out the limitation for an activation roll of that or less.

So you've got 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, & 13 - thats 74.5 and some more numbers% Almost exactly a 12- roll.

So I'd say this one is worth -3/4

 

PS - For values lower than 8-, I use:

 

3- -5

4- -4

5- -3

6- -2 1/2

7- -2 1/4

 

If you extrapolated from the book, each number below 8- would 'increase' the limitation by another -1/4, but starting at 6- the percentages begin halving themselves.

Hope that helped

 

Edit: Ack, sorry for any wrapping issues you may have experienced, I've fixed it.

Now this is perfect! Thanks

[mayapuppies]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Ok, so here is what I have for the limitation value based on the above charts from Frenchman.

 

Target Number Limitation Value

3 -5

4 -4

5 -3

6 -2 ½

7 -2 ¼

8 -2

9 -1 ½

10 -1 ¼

11 -1

12 -3/4

13

14 -1/2

15 -1/4

16

17

18

 

So would 13 be a -3/4 or -1/2?

Would 16-17 not have a limitation value?

[mayapuppies]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Using Frenchman's chart and Fritz's wonderful hit location graphic (attached), I come to this write-up for a Chain Shirt:

 

Chain Shirt: Armor (6 PD/0 ED) (9 Active Points); Shirt (Protects Locations 9-12; -1 1/4), Mass (Normal; -1), OIF Durable (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4)

 

I don't allow metal armor to have an energy defense.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

I also intend to utilize an END cost for armor during combat/strenuous activity but I am not using LTE so I've come up with formula:

 

Armor uses 1 END for every 3pts of DEF

Multiply this number by the % of the body the armor covers

 

So the above chain shirt would cause 2 END as a base

Modified to 1 END (48.148% of 2)

 

ooooh, this is so feeding my Rolemaster itch...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Locations 7-13 total 74.54%. Act 12- is 74.07%. Looks like -3/4 to me.

 

And 12- and 13- are both -3/4 limitations IIRC.

[Frenchman]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

And 12- and 13- are both -3/4 limitations IIRC.

You do

 

And as for 16/17-, I'd say that something which covers you 98+% isn't worth a limitation - well maybe -1/4 if its the head were talking about.

[Old Man]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

 

I don't allow metal armor to have an energy defense.

 

How come?

[mayapuppies]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Metal transmits energy very well. Fire and electricity being my primary examples. I'm sure that in some future incident I may have to make a judgment call, but for now it serves my purposes.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

PS - For values lower than 8-, I use:

 

3- -5

4- -4

5- -3

6- -2 1/2

7- -2 1/4

 

Good stuff.

 

From time to time, I drag out the various poker hand percentages, and try to come up with reasonable limitations for Full House and Straight Flush, so I can play Deadlands Hero using cards for the Huckster's activation roll. I'll probably use these numbers as a starting point the next time I get around to it.

[Frenchman]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Yes, but metal armor still provides some defense (I would agree with reducing its energy defense). Take a thin sheet of metal (like an aluminum can side), hold it in your palm, and stub out a lit ciggarette. Now do the same thing without the metal. I'd say it provided something.

Now, yes, electricity should go right through metal - which is why in my games I usually create electricity powers as AP, PEN, or +3/4 AVLD (non-conductive defenses) - but thats not true of other types of energy, such as fire, ice, acid, or light.

One more argument in favor of metal armor providing ed is - I can't think of any metal armor that is worn without padding - and the padding would insulate you, often quite well, against an energy attack.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

And I just got done having a conversation with one of the players about why they can't stack defences...because of the padding...didn't even connect the dots.

 

Ok, I'm convinced.

[Cosmosemeritus]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

The way I do it is give all metal armor (chain and plate mostly) 0rEd, but then allow (and recommend) wearing a lining. The linings, like a padded gambeson or leather jack have a note "can be worn under other armor" and adds to the defense per location.

 

Composite armors, like studded or brigadine, have the rED of the base material, usually leather.

 

I also have non-metal rigid materials, like oriental laminated wood armor or chitin armor, which tends to have pretty good (4-5) rED.

[Curufea]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

You could argue about grounding, faraday cages and insulation - but I would like to point out it's Fantasy Hero. With magic.

Please don't kill too many Cat Girls.

[Fitz]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

I also have non-metal rigid materials' date=' like oriental laminated wood armor or chitin armor, which tends to have pretty good (4-5) rED.[/quote']

 

Who used laminated wood armour? The Chinese? I can't recall ever seeing any anywhere, but then the Chinese used some pretty weird (and stupid) things as weapons and armour.

[Curufea]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

I would regard shields as laminated wood armour

[Old Man]

Re: Sectional Defences

 

Now, yes, electricity should go right through metal - which is why in my games I usually create electricity powers as AP, PEN, or +3/4 AVLD (non-conductive defenses) - but thats not true of other types of energy, such as fire, ice, acid, or light.

 

Just to nitpick, I've never understood why people think metal armor shouldn't count against electricity. Certainly the stuff will attract electrons, but that just makes it more likely that the armor will be hit--I don't see where it is more likely for the lightning to pass through the metal into the occupant. Indeed, I'd argue that there is no place safer to be when the bolts are flying, especially if the armor is a full suit and is therefore grounded.