How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

[JLHIII]

Say, like if the Green Lantern created a platform to carry himself and others. It's a focus, because it can be destroyed, but it only lasts as long as he wants it to so the only inconvenience would be making a new one.

 

In general, how are "energy constructs" handled?

[ideasmith]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Energy constructs are usually bought by taking the affects and adding the Physical Manifestation Limitation.

 

This specific example would be Flight, Usably by up to 8 others at same time as self, Physical Manifestation.

 

Edit: Just because something can be destroyed does not make it a Focus. An object is only a Focus if it can be taken away.

[oryanfactor]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

It could also be Telekinesis, with the same physical manifestation.

[Rkane_1]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

I would also add that it would not trully be "Flight, Usable By Others" because the others would not have control over where the Flight took them. The Telekinesis with Physical Manifestation would get my vote. If you had a spell that gave all the members of the team the self-willed ability to move where they want, I would then make it "Flight, Usable By Others" but if it were a moving Platform, I would buy it as oryanfactor suggests.

[Bloodstone]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Usable by others does not strike me as quite right for the SFX, but it's close. Instead, I'd buy it as opn of the following:

 

Flight 10", Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4), Usable As Attack (+1); Physical Manifestation (-1/4)

 

55 AP, 44 Real, END 5

 

In this way, only the character with the power has to pay END for the effort Everyone else can just stand on the thing wjhile you drive, possibly even taking recoveries. And you can also use it to carry people that are unconscious or perhaps less then willing. Since it's UAA, you must define a defense. The defense is simply not standing on the platform or having flight/teleportation powers of your own.

 

Alternatly, you could defie the energy disk as a Vehicle and simply use Summon to create it out of thin air whenever you need it.

[Rkane_1]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Ooooo....well done, Bloodstone. I like it and it makes sense. Good show.

[Dust Raven]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Edit: Just because something can be destroyed does not make it a Focus. An object is only a Focus if it can be taken away.

 

Just what I was gonna say.

 

RE: UBO vs UAA. I personally think UAA is far too expensive for this, and just as innacurate as UBO. For one thing, people on the platform have a choice to step off. They are not restrained in any way. Hell, if they have Flight of their own, they can just fly away. UBO also doesn't work because it limits the number of passengers to a specific number that's not at all based on their size or weight (and it forces them to pay the END if there is any).

 

My suggestion is to use TK and simply hold several objects/characters at the same time, having them all move with the character with this Power (a natural element of how TK works BTW). Also, just because you are holding something, doesn't mean that something is Grabbed as per the game mechanics for a Grab. It just means they are being held, and can be at full CV, have a full range of motion and are able to move away from the person holding them without resistance.

[The Monster]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

I would go with Summon for something like this, especially if you have the Vehicle Sourcebook for a quick look-up on a nice variety of vehicles. If it can be destroyed like a normal item, then TK doesn't really fit. Green Lantern is such a Cosmic VPP abuser anyway

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

TK doesn't handle the part about the character flying himself. It would have to be some kind of Flight + TK.

 

Actually, I'd probably go with something like Flight; UBO; Area of Effect: Radius (note: no increase in the number of simultaneous users for the UBO Advantage; AoE takes care of this, though an increase in Mass for each user might have to be purchased through the UBO). Think of it kind of like a Teleportation Gate. That might help.

[David Johnston]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Obviously the answer is area effect transform into a flying platform of people...

 

OK, I'll be serious. The platform is a flat forcewall being manipulated by telekinesis.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

The best solution is to split up the platform from the movement.

1. Forcewall with Mobile Advantage (+1/2) and No Range (-1/2)
   
2. Flight Linked to Forcewall (-1/4)

Now you have a fully customizable mechanic for each of the following:

1. How tough is the platform?
   
2. How big is the platform?
   
3. How fast can it fly?

Note, all 3 variables are independent of each other with this build.

 

The Mobile Advantage means the FW moves with the character. The PD and Size of the FW determines how many passengers can tag along. No Range makes it more like Static Shock, take away this limitation and make the FW big enough and you have GL's team vehicle of last resort.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Flight 10", Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4), Usable As Attack (+1); Physical Manifestation (-1/4)

 

55 AP, 44 Real, END 5

 

In this way, only the character with the power has to pay END for the effort Everyone else can just stand on the thing wjhile you drive, possibly even taking recoveries. And you can also use it to carry people that are unconscious or perhaps less then willing. Since it's UAA, you must define a defense. The defense is simply not standing on the platform or having flight/teleportation powers of your own.

 

Seems to me this one's simple and gets the job done. Why make it more complex than it needs to be?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Seems to me this one's simple and gets the job done. Why make it more complex than it needs to be?

 

That build seems while elegant appears to raise more questions than it answers.

 

what is the DEF of the Physical Manifestation?

what is the defense to the UAA for an unwilling target?

 

Forcewall used as a platform or globe has the answers to both of these 'built-in' by default.

 

Do you know 'by-heart' how to figure the DEF of a physical manifestation? Does everyone always define the defense for their abilities with UAA like they should?

[pinecone]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Say, like if the Green Lantern created a platform to carry himself and others. It's a focus, because it can be destroyed, but it only lasts as long as he wants it to so the only inconvenience would be making a new one.

 

In general, how are "energy constructs" handled?

I'd go with "Physical manifestation" -1/4

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

That build seems while elegant appears to raise more questions than it answers.

 

what is the DEF of the Physical Manifestation?

 

I don't have 5er in front of me, but my assumption is that this is part of the mechanic for that limitation.

 

what is the defense to the UAA for an unwilling target?

 

Any power allowing them to readily escape the physical manifestation. In fact, it would seem reasonable (using the Green Lantern platform example) to make the defense "choosing not to", since such a person won't step on the platform to begin with. Nothing says the defense has to be hard for people to possess.

 

Do you know 'by-heart' how to figure the DEF of a physical manifestation? Does everyone always define the defense for their abilities with UAA like they should?

 

How much weight can a horizontal force wall support? If the Force Wall platform suddenly stops moving, what are the rules for the riders to stop moving with it? Is the force wall considered to hold on to them, or does that require Telekinesis? If the Force Wall is a globe, and a target stands in the middle, when it suddenly stops, does he do a Move Through on the side involuntarily? I'll suggest that these issues are no more commonly known "by heart".

[Bloodstone]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

I don't have 5er in front of me' date=' but my assumption is that this is part of the mechanic for that limitation.[/quote']

 

You determin the DEF+BODY of a power with Physical Manifestation the same as you would for a breakable Focus.

 

It also has your base DCV, where applicable.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Ok, I agree that Physical Manifestation can be used but that method seems flawed imo since it links the defense of the construct directly to the amount of Flight purchased. Not all sfx would necessarily make sense to have this link.

 

Also, Flight + AOE + UAA + PM (if my memory serves) has a more complicated formula to use to figure out how heavy any 1 passenger can be regardless of the AOE. The Force Wall method just requires totalling the mass of all passengers and treating it as crushing damage vs. the Force Wall's PD.

 

hypothetical situation.

Say Flying-Disc-Lad is providing transport for his teammates. One of them Load-Of-Bricks-Boy has the power Denisity Increase but is not too smart (like his namesake). What happens if LOBBoy turns on 50 active points of Density Increase while on FDLad's Flight + AOE + UAA + PM construct? Does he bring down FDLad's platform due to too much mass? Does he punch a hole in it? Or is it destroyed?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Ok' date=' I agree that Physical Manifestation can be used but that method seems flawed imo since it links the defense of the construct directly to the amount of Flight purchased. Not all sfx would necessarily make sense to have this link. [/quote']

 

This is a flaw in the defense of foci, not the use of the physical manifestation limitation which simply draws on that defense computation.

 

Also' date=' [u']Flight + AOE + UAA + PM[/u] (if my memory serves) has a more complicated formula to use to figure out how heavy any 1 passenger can be regardless of the AOE. The Force Wall method just requires totalling the mass of all passengers and treating it as crushing damage vs. the Force Wall's PD.

 

So what's more complex, doing the math once and noting it on the character sheet, or rolling dice every phase for the heavy guy? I'm not saying your approach lacks merit, I'm saying it lacks the clear superiority you seem to attribute to it.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

...snip...

So what's more complex, doing the math once and noting it on the character sheet, or rolling dice every phase for the heavy guy? I'm not saying your approach lacks merit, I'm saying it lacks the clear superiority you seem to attribute to it.

 

Ok, maybe I'm going a little overboard but the thread topic says "flight via temporary energy platform" which seems damn close to "flight via temporary energy bubble". My build can handle either but the Flight + AOE + UAA + PM only handles the platform which sounds like a power defining its sfx to me.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

I'd still go with UBO rather than UAA. People can freely choose to use it or not, in the same sense as for a Teleportation Gate. It's just that some level of the Advantage is needed to affect other people at all (because AoE alone doesn't do that).

[Legendsmiths]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Summon the platform as a vehicle. Advantage: You can make it as big as you need it to be and then you can actually "ride" it, meaning you can maneuver it while (potentially) taking other actions. This would require a combat piloting/riding/flying skill but the result is a mobile platform allowing you full combat actions every phase.

[pinecone]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Summon the platform as a vehicle. Advantage: You can make it as big as you need it to be and then you can actually "ride" it' date=' meaning you can maneuver it while (potentially) taking other actions. This would require a combat piloting/riding/flying skill but the result is a mobile platform allowing you full combat actions every phase.[/quote']

 

Thats a good idea! Just put a summon slot in the Multi, put some sort of lim so it goes away when you lose concentration and it's done...

[Legendsmiths]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

That's how our Narosia Force flight spells work. In play it is very cool.

[JLHIII]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Wow, lots of replies!

 

I guess I need to upgrade, 4th edition (hero system) doesn't even have Physical Manifestation if memory serves.

 

I like some of the ideas, but it seems that what's really needed (for force constructs) is either a new power, or a specific framework to make VPPs work right for the force construct application.

 

Just my two cents.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform

 

Summon the platform as a vehicle. Advantage: You can make it as big as you need it to be and then you can actually "ride" it' date=' meaning you can maneuver it while (potentially) taking other actions. This would require a combat piloting/riding/flying skill but the result is a mobile platform allowing you full combat actions every phase.[/quote']

 

I initially considered this approach as it is the most accurate but it also is the most complicated to desribe. A VPP could refer to a seperate vehicle writeup but if we are still talking about a Green Lantern-esq construct you would need multiple writeups for vehicles of different size + speed + protection. The 'energy-vehicle' created to transport teammates might be quite different than the one created to ferry hundreds of passengers escaping from a burning ocean-liner.

 

So, the question to ask at this point is which of the various suggested approaches handles the concrete game effects of size + speed + protection with both accuracy and simplicity.