No damage from falling

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Upward movement is halved. To cancel 30" of downward velocity takes 60" of upward movement.

 

Ah. Missed that part when I was reading it the first time.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: No damage from falling

 

If and when Steve splits the Damage Protection and Movement aspects of Desolid' date=' I'll follow the new price structure.[/quote']I'd probably prefer this approach in some theoretical Sixth Edition to come. Make an Invulnerability power (possibly folding Damage Reduction into it), and just point out that "I'm intangible" is one possible special effect of being invulnerable to damage (or highly resistant to damage, or invulnerable to certain kinds of damage, etc.)

 

At that point, the "passing through stuff" aspect of Desolid could be modelled with Tunneling. You just always buy the "Closed Tunnels" option. Maybe add an Adder (or even a Limitation, depending on how you see it) to Tunneling that (A) allows it to be used on things that Tunneling doesn't normally affect (like people), with the requirement that such uses ( must have the "Closed Tunnel" option, and are not considered to damage the material tunneled through in any way.

 

In fact, the more I think about this, the more I wonder if Tunnelling and Damage Reduction might be a viable approach to building an intangible (or semi-intangible) character who can have a lot of affect on the normal world, even under 5th Edition rules. Hmm...

[prestidigitator]

Re: No damage from falling

 

I think Steve has changed his mind again, as he did on several other 5thED constructs. He may want Desolid as Invulnerability gone.

 

In my own campaigns, if you're Desolid and hit the ground, you'll keep going, unless limits or SFX suggest otherwise. If you have Desolid based Invulnerability, you'll take no damage. If and when Steve splits the Damage Protection and Movement aspects of Desolid, I'll follow the new price structure.

That's my take. I won't make a Desolidified character take falling damage unless the Desolidification doesn't prevent damage. And actually, since you actually have to hit the ground to take the damage, the Desolidification would have to have Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (or something similar), or the character would have to choose to be stopped by the ground (in which case I'd probably go by common sense, SFX, or gut feel). And what happens if the Desolidified character falls through the ground? I'll just put off thinking about that one for now.

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

In fact, the more I think about this, the more I wonder if Tunnelling and Damage Reduction might be a viable approach to building an intangible (or semi-intangible) character who can have a lot of affect on the normal world, even under 5th Edition rules. Hmm...

 

Sure, just add in 1" Does Not Pass Through Intervening Space Stretching for auto escapes from grabs and punching people on the other sides of walls. I'd also use this for stepping through people rather than the Tunneling effect. A 1" T-Port works as well, and gives you auto escape from entangles.

[prestidigitator]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Rep for going after the cheapest possible build. But, if I'm not incorrect, this would cause the character to fall at 1" until they hit the ground. This looks more like "Levitation, downward only, Uncontrolled/Triggered (only when not supported by any solid objects)" than falling. It also looks very different to the character and any observers, and seriously affects movement speed: what's the point of diving off a rooftop to elude pursuers by being able to get up and walk away before they can take the elevator/stairs down, if they can hop off and hold on to you or just take aim and fire as you float on your leisurely way down?

 

I know that the power will need to have Visible Power Effects, but let me add a caveat to that: only visible at the ground floor. The "fall" itself is normal, it's that impact at the end which the character needs to walk away from.

Heh.

** Watches Swish jump off the building and slowly drift toward the ground. Then starts a casual stroll toward the hatch. **

 

So, should we take the stairs or the elevator?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Sure' date=' just add in 1" Does Not Pass Through Intervening Space Stretching for auto escapes from grabs and punching people on the other sides of walls. I'd also use this for stepping through people rather than the Tunneling effect. A 1" T-Port works as well, and gives you auto escape from entangles.[/quote']

 

I like the idea but it shows another built in sfx of the system with respect to the defenses normally used to stop such powers (affects desol, cannot be escaped with Tport, and the ubiquitous hardened). It seems like one advantage with a couple variances would make more sense.

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Here, the only Desolid trick he can't manage is stopping inside an object:

 

KIND OF DESOLID DAVE!

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

15 STR 5 12- Lift 200.0kg; 3d6 [1]

20 DEX 30 13- OCV: 7/DCV: 7

13 CON 6 12-

12 BODY 4 11-

10 INT 0 11- PER Roll 11-

10 EGO 0 11- ECV: 3

15 PRE 5 12- PRE Attack: 3d6

12 COM 1 11-

 

4+16 PD 1 Total: 4/20 PD (0/16 rPD)

4+16 ED 1 Total: 4/20 ED (0/16 rED)

4 SPD 10 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12

6 REC 0

26 END 0

27 STUN 0 Total Characteristic Cost: 63

 

Movement: Running: 7"/14"

Leaping: 3"/6"

Swimming: 2"/4"

Teleportation: 7"/14"

 

Cost Powers END

60 You can't hurt me, I'm Desolid: Armor (16 PD/16 ED), Hardened (+¼) (60 Active Points)

60 Nope, Still Desolid: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75%

60 Really, Desolid. Just live with it.: Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75%

40 Desolid. You didn't really hit me.: Knockback Resistance -20"

26 Look, Desolid. Deal with it.: Teleportation 7", Position Shift, Safe Blind Teleport (+¼), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (38 Active Points); Visible (Can see Teleport path; -¼)

9 Well I'm Not Explaining Again. : Stretching 1", Does Not Cross Intervening Space (+¼), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (9 Active Points)

26 I punch right into you, because, well, desolid: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (1d6+1 w/STR), Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +¼), Penetrating (+½) (26 Active Points) 3

2 Happy Feet: Running +1" (7" total) 1

2 PS: Criminal, 11-

2 KS: Criminal World, 11-

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 287

Total Cost: 350

 

200+ Disadvantages

20 Psychological Limitation: Must constantly explain to everyone that he is in fact desolid (Very Common, Strong)

15 Psychological Limitation: Greedy and yet also a Spendthrift (Very Common, Moderate)

15 Psychological Limitation: Overconfidence (Very Common, Moderate)

20 Distinctive Features: Semi-Tranparent, inhuman skin texture (Not Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

5 Rivalry: Professional (Other desolid characters; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)

75 Experience Points

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 350

[Hyper-Man]

Re: No damage from falling

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to OddHat again.

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

And what happens if the Desolidified character falls through the ground? I'll just put off thinking about that one for now.

 

"Hey, did you ever wonder what happened to Casper?"

"Who?"

"Casper, our old teammate?"

"Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about him!"

"It's been a while, huh?"

"Yeah, he was the one who got knocked unconscious in mid-flight and fell into the ground, wasn't he?"

"That's the one."

"Haven't heard from him since."

"Nope."

"So, what was the question?"

"Oh yeah! Did you ever wonder what happened to him?"

" . . . I've kinda been trying to not think about that yet, actually."

[pinecone]

Re: No damage from falling

 

I guess you can "fix" the issue of velocity on DR A's build by buying more gliding,Inherant, Trigger: Falls X hexes....Gliding 10", Trigger falling 5", Inherant...whats that....17 points? Only to survive falls is sort of a small NCC lim so -1/2?....

[Dust Raven]

Re: No damage from falling

 

I'm kinda surprised no one has tried building something using noncombat movement or the spiffy new-to-5th-edition movement Advantages that let you speed up to max speed instantly.

 

I'm not as surprised no one has taken into account normal acceleration for movement powers other than Teleport and Leaping. You can't use Flight as a last ditch just before you hit the ground because you can't accellerate to max velocity in time unless you spend the last 6 hex before hitting the ground slowing down (which isn't the same as smacking into the ground full speed and not taking damage). The only movement that'll allow that is Leaping or Teleport No Relative Velocity (and Teleport means you don't smack at all, you just vanish some point above the ground and appear an instant later standing on the ground).

 

Now, you can buy Flight 15" x4 noncombat, Noncombat Acceleration (+1) (70 Active) Up Only (-1) Only Along A Surface (-1/2) for 28 points.

 

For a more never takes falling damage (even while unconscious) you could instead buy Flight 60" Combat Acceleration (+1/4) Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) Persistant (+1/2) (270 Active) No Noncombat (-1/4), Up Only, (-1), Only Along A Surface (-1/2) for a heafty 98 points. At this rate it's cheaper just to buy the 180 PD Only Versus Falling Damage (-2), especially since you only have to buy what you don't already have.

 

The cheapest method is to buy an additional x16 noncombat (for a total of x32) for 20 points with the Limitation Only Prevent Damage From Falls (-1) for 10 points. This assumes a character of 10 STR who hasn't bought additional inches of Leaping. The cheapest method is always going to involve noncombat movement; the character is already at 1/2 DCV for falling, so it won't hurt much to stay there when he lands.

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

An excellent example of this power would be when Volkov, shot nearly to death, fell into the chasm and was later seen still alive. It's a pretty neat "fake your own death" power for a villain; when they are about to be defeated, they declare that they absolute refuse to lose, and turn to dive off of the cliff instead.

[Dust Raven]

Re: No damage from falling

 

An excellent example of this power would be when Volkov' date=' shot nearly to death, fell into the chasm and was later seen still alive. It's a pretty neat "fake your own death" power for a villain; when they are about to be defeated, they declare that they absolute refuse to lose, and turn to dive off of the cliff instead.[/quote']

 

All you need is enough PD to survive the fall if you want to fake your own death. It doesn't matter how much STUN you take (unless the GM is crewl and puts you in a coma for the rest of the campaign). It doesn't even matter if you stop all the BODY, just as long as you survive.

[Robyn]

Re: No damage from falling

 

All you need is enough PD to survive the fall if you want to fake your own death.

 

Spoilsport

[pinecone]

Re: No damage from falling

 

All you need is enough PD to survive the fall if you want to fake your own death. It doesn't matter how much STUN you take (unless the GM is crewl and puts you in a coma for the rest of the campaign). It doesn't even matter if you stop all the BODY' date=' just as long as you survive.[/quote']

 

Shoot you don't even need the PD, just enough Body...

[Dust Raven]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Shoot you don't even need the PD' date=' just enough Body...[/quote']

 

Aaaahhhhhhh.....

 

...

...

...

...

 

[sPLAT!]

 

"crap... now where did my arm go this time?"

[Spidey88]

Re: No damage from falling

 

To use the Superleap method, wouldn't you still only need 30" of Superleap, since you could use noncombat movement? You'd take a hit on DCV as you "braced for impact", but wouldn't that be sufficient?

 

If that was ok, wouldn't a lot less Superleap be effective too, as long as you bought extra noncombat multiples? Eg. 15" superleap, x4 NC multiple would equal potential vertical leaps of 30" at 1/2 DCV.

 

Cheaper than 60" of superleap, if all you care about is resisting falls, and still useful for getting around...

[prestidigitator]

Re: No damage from falling

 

I wouldn't let you use NCM Leaping to buffer yourself from a fall unless maybe if it is a deliberate jump so you're more prepared.

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

To use the Superleap method, wouldn't you still only need 30" of Superleap, since you could use noncombat movement? You'd take a hit on DCV as you "braced for impact", but wouldn't that be sufficient?

 

If that was ok, wouldn't a lot less Superleap be effective too, as long as you bought extra noncombat multiples? Eg. 15" superleap, x4 NC multiple would equal potential vertical leaps of 30" at 1/2 DCV.

 

Cheaper than 60" of superleap, if all you care about is resisting falls, and still useful for getting around...

 

Check the rules on Acceleration and Deceleration on p.364 5thER. You can only Accelerate and Decelerate at your Combat movement per phase, and even then you're stuck at 5" per hex. Without Noncombat Acceleration (+1) anyone attempting to use their noncombat movement for this is toast. For that matter, you really shouldn't be able to hit and then instantly decelerate even with that advantage; you'd have to slow on the way down, at 5" per hex. Only the Teleport option looks viable.

[prestidigitator]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Check the rules on Acceleration and Deceleration on p.364 5thER. You can only Accelerate and Decelerate at your Combat movement per phase' date=' and even then you're stuck at 5" per hex. Without Noncombat Acceleration (+1) anyone attempting to use their noncombat movement for this is toast. For that matter, you really shouldn't be able to hit and then instantly decelerate even with that advantage; you'd have to slow on the way down, at 5" per hex. Only the Teleport option looks viable.[/quote']

True, but Noncombat Leaping works a little...differently. You spend more air time rather than having acceleration time in Phases (though I believe the thing about only being able to accelerate/decelerate 5" per HEX is still true or something; I believe I saw an answer by Steve Long that implied that).

[OddHat]

Re: No damage from falling

 

True' date=' but Noncombat Leaping works a little...differently. You spend more air time rather than having acceleration time in Phases (though I believe the thing about only being able to accelerate/decelerate 5" per HEX is still true or something; I believe I saw an answer by Steve Long that implied that). [/quote']

 

A quick look through 5thER doesn't turn that up, but I remember something similar as an optional rule. So, I dunno. I suspect you're still, by the rules, going to go splat if you try to use your Leaping to decelerate from a fall. Maybe this is best as a Steve question.

[Spidey88]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Yeah, I didn't know the actual technical details behind the NC leaping example I brought up, I just kind of assumed that if you could survive the drop from the height you travel at your absolute maximum jump, that you'd be able to survive a fall from similar distances (assuming you were prepared, made a Breakfall/Acrobatics roll, etc.). It's not like you actually accelerate/decelerate over the course of a jump - it's at the takeoff/landing that you do such things. So someone using NC leaping might need to take a couple of shorter jumps to burn off momentum safely after that big drop (to follow the technical aspects of proper NC acceleration/deceleration, it would seem Superleapers tend to be rather bouncy), but IMHO, handling drops from X height under circumstance A is close enough to handling drops from X height under circumstance B. To me, the feel of it would be pretty wonky if the GM said:

 

"ok - so you can jump 30" straight up when you focus on doing nothing else. But jumping down off of something is completely different - so you take the full falling damage."

 

"But - assuming, of course, that I make a roll for the proper control on the way down, why should this be any different? If anything, it's simpler to jump off of something - practically no forward momentum at all, less chance to trip or something. And if no fall over 30" generates extra velocity due to hitting terminal velocity, why couldn't I jump off the top of a really tall building - I'll hit with the same velocity, and have more time to adjust on the way down?"

 

"Nope. Won't work."

 

"Ok - assuming that's true (which I still argue) - I know from my own personal experience that I can jump off of something MUCH higher than I can actually jump up to. My vertical is what - like two feet? Yet I can jump off a 9-foot balcony onto concrete (and I have, more than once), and assuming I land correctly, am perfectly fine. Considering my character's standing high jump is over half that 30" distance, shouldn't that at least reduce the potential damage?"

 

"Nope. Full damage."

 

Arrg.

 

Actually had the exact same argument in a GURPS game with my GM - different rules, of course - but the same principles apply.

 

Had a similar argument with a Gm YEARS ago (when I was about 14) with my GM when I was leaping from a crashing plane about 50 feet up at about 70 mph, with an unconscious pilot in my arms. My character could leap at speeds at least triple that, at double the height, and had a 40 or so STR, 6 arms, and a DEX of 30 or so - so I assumed the danger would be fairly minimal. My GM decided "noone could survive that fall" or some such thing, and reduced my INT to 6 as a result of the anavoidable brain damage upon landing.

 

Either I'm incredibly obnoxious as a player and need to be knocked down a peg or two, or I have a knack for attracting GM's who are a-holes in superhero games.

 

My two cents, anyway. Do with them what you will.

[prestidigitator]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Right. If you can jump 60m straight up into the air and not take damage when you land, you can obviously absorb all the damage from a fall of 60m (because the last half of a vertical jump is physically identical to a fall from 60m). The question in my mind is whether you are prepared enough to do it. If you purposefully make the jump yourself (off a 60m tall object or whatever) then I think the answer is clearly yes. If you fall...beats me. It seems to be the province of Breakfall, I guess, but I'd think the necessary roll could be anywhere from just succeeding to making an Extraordinary roll (making it by 10 or more), perhaps depending on the campaign style. I'm still not sure I'd allow Non-Combat Leaping to be used for it out of an uncontrolled fall, though.

 

EDIT: Very, very minor note. The height of a jump is actually maximum shoulder height, not vertical clearance from the ground. So there might have to be an extra 1-2m meters of vertical Leaping or so.

[Dust Raven]

Re: No damage from falling

 

Check the rules on Acceleration and Deceleration on p.364 5thER. You can only Accelerate and Decelerate at your Combat movement per phase' date=' and even then you're stuck at 5" per hex. Without Noncombat Acceleration (+1) anyone attempting to use their noncombat movement for this is toast. For that matter, you really shouldn't be able to hit and then instantly decelerate even with that advantage; you'd have to slow on the way down, at 5" per hex. Only the Teleport option looks viable.[/quote']

 

That doesn't really apply to falling though, does it? Otherwise, even using Combat Movement, you'd only ever be able to reduce the fall by 5"/5d6 for hex you fall in (unless you buy the mentioned Advantages).

[Dust Raven]

Re: No damage from falling

 

To use the Superleap method, wouldn't you still only need 30" of Superleap, since you could use noncombat movement? You'd take a hit on DCV as you "braced for impact", but wouldn't that be sufficient?

 

If that was ok, wouldn't a lot less Superleap be effective too, as long as you bought extra noncombat multiples? Eg. 15" superleap, x4 NC multiple would equal potential vertical leaps of 30" at 1/2 DCV.

 

Cheaper than 60" of superleap, if all you care about is resisting falls, and still useful for getting around...

 

That's what I said in post #36 (among other things).