Amnesia

[Lord Quintus]

I was trying to figure out what kind of a disadvantage amnesia would be. Anyone run anything where they've used it before?

[pinecone]

Re: Amnesia

 

I once played a character with amnesia,I took it as a physical lim. It worked out fine because the actual lim was being obsessed with finding my past (for no points) so I was easy to trick into walking into an ambush, or be manipulated by someone who claimed to have information about me...

[Lord Quintus]

Re: Amnesia

 

Thanks, that's similar to what I was thinking. I knew it'd probably be 0 points since I didn't see any real adverse effects, game-wise, the way I was designing my character. Thank you.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Amnesia

 

Well, consult your GM, first. If your character's past is going to come back to bite him, and knowing something about his past would've helped, yeah, that's limiting. I concur with the ruling that it's a Physical Limitation, though.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Amnesia

 

Well' date=' consult your GM, first. If your character's past is going to come back to bite him, and knowing something about his past would've helped, yeah, that's limiting. I concur with the ruling that it's a Physical Limitation, though.[/quote']

 

 

It could also be a Psychological Limitation, though ... if the character simply doesn't *want* to remember some important details of his past.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Amnesia

 

Or, Mystery Disadvantage.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Amnesia

 

It could also be a Psychological Limitation' date=' though ... if the character simply doesn't *want* to remember some important details of his past.[/quote']

Yeah, if that's how you want to build it. The way I think of it, with a true memory-wipe, nobody can force the character to remember, whether he wants to or not. But certain kinds of amnesia, the memories CAN return, if properly triggered. So I guess you're looking for which category of amnesia you're dealing with. Is it a psychological dissociative disorder, and the character has a mental block, or is it that the memories have been removed, and nothing will bring them back?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Amnesia

 

As with most builds in HERO, I think it's useful to consider what you want the game effect of the amnesia to be. Does he have enemies that seek him for offenses he doesn't even recall? That sounds like a Hunted. Is he tenative, or is he easily manipulated by people dangling clues about his past? Those sound like Psych Lims. Has he forgotten anything that causes his behavior to be odd, or causes him to fail to grasp social niceties? Those might be Distinctive Features or Social Lims. And so on.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Amnesia

 

Yeah' date=' if that's how you want to build it. The way I think of it, with a true memory-wipe, nobody can force the character to remember, whether he wants to or not. But certain kinds of amnesia, the memories CAN return, if properly triggered. So I guess you're looking for which category of amnesia you're dealing with. Is it a psychological dissociative disorder, and the character has a mental block, or is it that the memories have been removed, and nothing will bring them back?[/quote']

 

Pretty much what I was getting at.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Amnesia

 

As with most builds in HERO' date=' I think it's useful to consider what you want the game effect of the amnesia to be. Does he have enemies that seek him for offenses he doesn't even recall? That sounds like a Hunted. Is he tenative, or is he easily manipulated by people dangling clues about his past? Those sound like Psych Lims. Has he forgotten anything that causes his behavior to be odd, or causes him to fail to grasp social niceties? Those might be Distinctive Features or Social Lims. And so on. [/quote']

 

I pretty much agree with this. Typically, not remembering something, even a significent something, is not any kind of Disadvantage in and of itself. If my life before losing my memory (regardless of how it was lost) was pretty much dull, uneventuful and unimportant, and no one from my past is searching for me and I simply lack to drive to learn about it, then there's no limiting factors involved. but as Derek says, if there is some limiting factor, you can usually use that factor as the Disad, with a lack of memory/knowledge of it (even the why) influencing the point cost.

[David Johnston]

Re: Amnesia

 

The big problem with cinematic amnesia is that, in itself it is a naturally transient problem. Can't remember that you have superpowers? You'll find out. Can't remember that someone is hunting you and wants to kill you? You'll eventually clue in. That makes it more of a plot device than a disadvantage. In terms of long term difficulties as a result of amnesia we're probably looking at an Infrequent Minor Physical Disability because the GM can always throw some old bit of awkwardness at you. Additionally you could have a Psychological Limitation "Wants to find out his past" at any intensity you want.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Amnesia

 

But aren't disadvantages plot devices?

 

I know I've been using my players' disadvantages as jumping-off points to get them more invested in the story.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Amnesia

 

But aren't disadvantages plot devices?

 

I know I've been using my players' disadvantages as jumping-off points to get them more invested in the story.

That's definately a good use for them, but for me at least, Disads are defining characteristics of a character, similar to Powers and Skills. the only difference is that instead of making life easier for the character, the Disad makes life harder, at least as far as game play is concerned.

 

Of course, there's nothing wrong with a GM using a character's Disads as a hook to get the character involved in the story. I do it all the time myself. I also use a character's Skills, Talents and Powers occasionally as well (typically things like Interaction & Knowledge Skills and Enhanced Senses).

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Amnesia

 

"A harder life" and "a better story" are almost indistinguishable in the world I've built. I'm sure that has something to do with it.

[David Johnston]

Re: Amnesia

 

But aren't disadvantages plot devices?

 

 

Not in gamespeak. A plot device is something that produces effects that are transient and arbitrary and hence do not need to be statted out. A disadvantage is a permanent part of the character with a specific point value.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Amnesia

 

I have a player that loves the idea of amnesia and a mystery past, and makes such characters frequently. I have, at times, allowed a 5 point Disad for it as a Psych Lim (Compelled to discover past), with the understanding that it will have to be bought off as the past is revealed. 5 points isn't much of a Psych Lim, and it is played at the 15 point level, but having to devote the first 15 XP to buying off a Disad is too onerous for most, so we let it sit at 5.

 

Typically, from a character building standpoint, amnesia serves two purposes in my games. First, it means the character almost inevitably has a Mystery Hunted, which makes it easy for the player initially, but they have to deal with whatever I come up with for a Hunted. Second, it allows the player to have a background that they can't actually pay for, on account of the fact they have "forgotten" some of their skills.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Amnesia

 

Not in gamespeak. A plot device is something that produces effects that are transient and arbitrary and hence do not need to be statted out. A disadvantage is a permanent part of the character with a specific point value.

Gamespeak or not, a plot device may be stated out or not depending on the needs of the GM/players, the campaign orientation and the nature of the device. For example, one of the players in my current Champions game has a DNPC I use as a plot device. Both the Disad on the character sheet, and the DNPCs character sheet, are fully statted out.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Amnesia

 

I can see the argument that Amnesia would become less limiting over time. Of course "Unfamiliar with Earth Culture" falls under the same argument. I'd say, though, that it's not a matter of amnesia not being limiting; it's that, cinematically, we usually see people buying the limitation off in the course of discovering their past.

[David Johnston]

Re: Amnesia

 

Gamespeak or not' date=' a plot device may be stated out or not depending on the needs of the GM/players, the campaign orientation and the nature of the device. For example, one of the players in my current Champions game has a DNPC I use as a plot device.[/quote']

 

You mean once her utility to the plot is done, you discarded her? That's what a plot device is, you know. Something that exists only to make the plot work.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Amnesia

 

You mean once her utility to the plot is done' date=' you discarded her? That's what a plot device is, you know. Something that exists only to make the plot work.[/quote']

The "something" in this case is the event rather than the character or disad I suppose. Personally, I don't consider plot devices disposable, at least not by definition. Many are recurring devices in my campaigns (such as this DNPC).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Amnesia

 

But aren't disadvantages plot devices?

 

I would have said 'plot hooks', myself.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: Amnesia

 

Ah, right. Huge difference, there. ^ v ^

[pinecone]

Re: Amnesia

 

I can see the argument that Amnesia would become less limiting over time. Of course "Unfamiliar with Earth Culture" falls under the same argument. I'd say' date=' though, that it's not a matter of amnesia not being limiting; it's that, cinematically, we usually see people buying the limitation off in the course of discovering their past.[/quote']

 

I can certainly see it bought each way...but for me amnesia as a psych lim doesn't fly well..."I can't remember my past...but if I make a Ego roll I can just make out a memory" is a mechanic I just don't like...it's flava...and even if you discover your past it is Not the same as remembering..."So, your the first girl I was ever sexual with...nice to know" is not the same as being able to remember it...........insread of buying off the lim I'd go for buying it down in severity and buying KS: "My life"...(and this may contain errors)

[David Johnston]

Re: Amnesia

 

The "something" in this case is the event rather than the character or disad I suppose. Personally' date=' I don't consider plot devices disposable, at least not by definition. Many are recurring devices in my campaigns (such as this DNPC).[/quote']

 

So do you have a word for the kind of concept that I'm thinking of? The magic book that is used to explain how the villain will be able to turn the entire city's population to stone, automatically once, and never again so it doesn't need to be added to the villain's character sheet? The expression I use is "plot device".

[Dust Raven]

Re: Amnesia

 

So do you have a word for the kind of concept that I'm thinking of? The magic book that is used to explain how the villain will be able to turn the entire city's population to stone' date=' automatically once, and never again so it doesn't need to be added to the villain's character sheet? The expression I use is "plot device".[/quote']

As do I. I just also call things like this DNPC a plot device.