dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

[dstarfire]

Trying to build some disads for an eastern-style mystic. The concept I'm having trouble with is the different rules he has to do to maintain his powers. I'd like to use the effects from dependence for this, but how do I build the things he CAN'T do? for example, if he eats meat or consumes the flesh of another living being he loses his powers (or they become less effective, fail occassionally, etc.) until he re-purifies himself (through meditation, prayer, etc.).

[JmOz]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

Suseptability

[Captain Obvious]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

A Physical Limitation. Must Remain Pure. Frequency and Strength to taste.

[GreyGuardian]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

umm looses his powers if he eats the wrong thing? That's a limitation on those powers.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

I agree with jmoz - it's a Susceptibility. Long-term drain of all powers if he commits a prohibited act.

[Silbeg]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

Something along those lines, at least.

I am not 100% comfortable with Susceptability, Dependency sounds like it would be a better fit... BUT, the dependency would be extremely common. Maybe use the addiction modifier, but it could have any of your described affects.

 

Still not perfect, though. Just doesn't smell right.

 

On the other hand, it definitely would be clean to put a lim on his affected powers that the powers wouldn't work if unclean. This would probably be worth a -1/4 at most, since the character wouldn't voluntarily make himself unclean.

 

Add a psych lim to show the code of conduct (won't eat meat, etc).

[ghost-angel]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

Physical Limitation - must eat Kosher Foods (season to taste) or Powers lose effectiveness (open to interpretation, or agree on set amounts with the GM).

 

A Limitation on the powers would probably be a -0 since they really don't restrict use the powers themselves most of the time (how often are you going to be force fed a hamburger, and what kind of temptation is there really?)

[McCoy]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

umm looses his powers if he eats the wrong thing? That's a limitation on those powers.

What GreyGuardian said. You are describing a limitation on the power, not a disad on the character.

 

With you're GM's approval, take this as a +0 limitation on the power, then same dietary restrictions as a social Disad.

[Mike W]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

I can see where Captain Obvious is coming from. Generally, if you can't do something it's a Physical Limit. On the other hand, I'd be more inclined to make it a Psych Lim in this case akin to a Code of Honor. After all, in this case, it isn't so much that he CAN'T do it as that he WON'T do it. Buy a separate disad(Susceptibility maybe) to represent the effects of not following the Code.

 

I would be against putting a limit on the powers, because the character has total control over the situation. Unlike a "Does not work in X environment(darkness, underwater, etc)" type of limit, where the GM can control when the power does or does not work, the player/character has complete control over the Limit. In short, to my way of thinking, if the GM can't exploit it, it's not a limit. And short of kidnapping the character and force feeding him food he isn't supposed to have, I don't see much way for the GM to exploit it as a limit.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

In re: Physical Limitation, I was thinking more along the lines of if he does it he can't use his powers. But yeah.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

Physical Limitation - must eat Kosher Foods (season to taste) or Powers lose effectiveness (open to interpretation, or agree on set amounts with the GM).

 

A Limitation on the powers would probably be a -0 since they really don't restrict use the powers themselves most of the time (how often are you going to be force fed a hamburger, and what kind of temptation is there really?)

 

I can see circumstances where dietary restrictions can become a problem, especially in an adventurous lifestyle. Particularly for a vegetarian, you can certainly end up in environments where game is the only viable food available. Humans tend not to do well on diets of grass, leaves or bark, and some places (arctic, desert, sea) you won't even find that.

 

Not sure if it's been carried forward into Fifth Edition, but for Fourth Fantasy HERO had a Limitation on Powers called "Religious Restrictions." These were requirements that the character must fulfill in order to use those powers: daily prayers, meditation, sacrifice of an animal, wearing only sackcloth, not touching X (substance, person), and so forth. That Limitation was usually at -1/4 or -1/2, depending on how Limiting the conditions were ruled to be; it probably wouldn't be a good idea to take a more restrictive Religious Restriction, at least for a PC.

 

dstarfire, I don't think that the dietary requirement you mention would be enough of a Limitation by itself to warrant a cost reduction, but as part of a package of restrictions I could definitely see it.

[Egyptoid]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

Sleeps on bare rock only.

 

Wears no articles of red or orange.

 

Drinks nothing beyond rain water.

 

Speaks only to members of own race.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

Eh... why not just use "Only While In God's Service" -1/2, and use that? It's a special effect, yeah? We're talking about the SFX of being religiously affiliated with something and that, in some way, drives the power/ability to use the power, yeah? You then tack on behind that the mechanics you're looking for. I think in FH there are rules for what happens if you AREN'T currently in appropriate favor and how to get back in.

 

In d20 this is called Atonement, and it's a spell, believe it or not. Mmm... handwaves. So tasty. Anyway, generally it's described as "losing all abilities" until you can get back into God's service, whatever that may entail (often prescribed by a member higher up the food chain). Does that answer the question?

[Mike W]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

I can see circumstances where dietary restrictions can become a problem, especially in an adventurous lifestyle. Particularly for a vegetarian, you can certainly end up in environments where game is the only viable food available. Humans tend not to do well on diets of grass, leaves or bark, and some places (arctic, desert, sea) you won't even find that.

 

Not sure if it's been carried forward into Fifth Edition, but for Fourth Fantasy HERO had a Limitation on Powers called "Religious Restrictions." These were requirements that the character must fulfill in order to use those powers: daily prayers, meditation, sacrifice of an animal, wearing only sackcloth, not touching X (substance, person), and so forth. That Limitation was usually at -1/4 or -1/2, depending on how Limiting the conditions were ruled to be; it probably wouldn't be a good idea to take a more restrictive Religious Restriction, at least for a PC.

 

dstarfire, I don't think that the dietary requirement you mention would be enough of a Limitation by itself to warrant a cost reduction, but as part of a package of restrictions I could definitely see it.

 

 

Not really. Game has to have something to eat. Oak leaves may not be tasty, but they would be edible. And in a champs game, it can be really hard to strand the characters in the wilderness for any length of time. Between speedsters, super vehicles, and teleporters, you can't strand people very easily.

 

I could kind of see the religious restrictions thing, but in a champs game I think it works better to do it differently because more often than not, those restrictions aren't restrictive enough to reduce the costs that easily. Maybe -1/4, but I don't think I'd go any more than that for the "whole package".

[GreyGuardian]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

just because it would be a limit on the powers doesn't mean it should necessarily be worth any points. It depends on how often it might come into play... for example - the characters travel a lot and somewhere diet limit fellow chows down on his fresh vegetables (ie the only thing you can be pretty darn sure are what they are when eating in a restraunt) but oops, there was a little schmear of pork fat in the bottom of the bowl... bye bye powers. It might also be a psych lim where he doesn't Believe his powers work after deviating from his dietary restriction. again, how much that is worth is very much dependent on how often it is likely to come up.

[Mike W]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

just because it would be a limit on the powers doesn't mean it should necessarily be worth any points. It depends on how often it might come into play... for example - the characters travel a lot and somewhere diet limit fellow chows down on his fresh vegetables (ie the only thing you can be pretty darn sure are what they are when eating in a restraunt) but oops' date=' there was a little schmear of pork fat in the bottom of the bowl... bye bye powers. It might also be a psych lim where he doesn't Believe his powers work after deviating from his dietary restriction. again, how much that is worth is very much dependent on how often it is likely to come up.[/quote']

 

The "smear of pork fat in the bottom of the bowl" is something I don't buy for a couple of reasons. First, you'd be able to taste it before you ate much. Second, in most religious circumstances I can think of, intention would be part of it. An accident like that would force you to send the dish back but it isn't going to make your powers go away if you remember to ask forgiveness at the next ceremony. Third, such an incident would seem pretty contrived and not every player would accept such a thing. After all, the player/character is trying to do the right thing and you screw them over...that's weak. It would have to be part of an intelligent and knowing plot to make any sense(ie, the character's archnemesis is in the kitchen and slips the pork fat into the dish, just before attacking). But even then, you're still stretching the breaking point of believability for a lot of players.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

The "smear of pork fat in the bottom of the bowl" is something I don't buy for a couple of reasons. First' date=' you'd be able to taste it before you ate much. Second, in most religious circumstances I can think of, intention would be part of it. An accident like that would force you to send the dish back but it isn't going to make your powers go away if you remember to ask forgiveness at the next ceremony. Third, such an incident would seem pretty contrived and not every player would accept such a thing. After all, the player/character is trying to do the right thing and you screw them over...that's weak. It would have to be part of an intelligent and knowing plot to make any sense(ie, the character's archnemesis is in the kitchen and slips the pork fat into the dish, just before attacking). But even then, you're still stretching the breaking point of believability for a lot of players.[/quote']

 

The extent to which such an approach is fair from the perspective of the GM depends, in large part, on the point savings the player obtained from this drawback. If he took a mild social limitation related to his refusal to consume such foodstuffs, it's excessive. If he took a -1/4 limitation on all of his abilities, it seems he has indicated the restriction is significant, and should be triggered on occasion.

 

IOW, GM reasonableness and player reasonableness need to go hand in hand.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

... Only While In God's Service covers this. *blink blink* *watches the cars roll by* I feel so left out.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

... Only While In God's Service covers this. *blink blink* *watches the cars roll by* I feel so left out.

 

Hey, why be satisfied with one good way to do something, when HERO lets you come up with half a dozen good ways? You might even like one of those better. And even if you don't, the debate almost always gives you the satisfaction of making someone feel ignored.

[Mike W]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

The extent to which such an approach is fair from the perspective of the GM depends, in large part, on the point savings the player obtained from this drawback. If he took a mild social limitation related to his refusal to consume such foodstuffs, it's excessive. If he took a -1/4 limitation on all of his abilities, it seems he has indicated the restriction is significant, and should be triggered on occasion.

 

IOW, GM reasonableness and player reasonableness need to go hand in hand.

 

Agreed. But this is an example of why I would rather head it off early and not give him a limit on his power for it. If I have to get that cheesy to bring the limit into play, the limit is too cheesy to allow in the first place IMO.

[Roland]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

The "smear of pork fat in the bottom of the bowl" is something I don't buy for a couple of reasons. First' date=' you'd be able to taste it before you ate much. Second, in most religious circumstances I can think of, intention would be part of it. An accident like that would force you to send the dish back but it isn't going to make your powers go away if you remember to ask forgiveness at the next ceremony. Third, such an incident would seem pretty contrived and not every player would accept such a thing. After all, the player/character is trying to do the right thing and you screw them over...that's weak. It would have to be part of an intelligent and knowing plot to make any sense(ie, the character's archnemesis is in the kitchen and slips the pork fat into the dish, just before attacking). But even then, you're still stretching the breaking point of believability for a lot of players.[/quote']

 

This would depend very much on how you define the religion and its demands. In most ancient religions, sin was more about ritual purity than morality. In such a religion, a tiny unwitting transgression (such as eating a tiny, hidden bit of a forbidden substance) could indeed make one ritually unclean. If the deity is omniscient, then s/he would know about the transgression even if no one else did. There are tales of such unwitting transgressors going to great lengths just to find out why their deity is upset so that they can make amends!

 

In later religions - most notably Christianity, where "Pharasaism" is eschewed - your argument would be correct. But a member of this kind of religion is not likely to have the proposed sort of disadvantage/limitation in the first place. For a Christian, the scrupulosity represented by such a disad/lim might itself be a sin!

[dstarfire]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

After a bit of thought (and only reading the first 2 replies to this thread) I eventually came to the same conclusion as Thia. Namely, to use the "only while serving god's purposes" limitation on the relavent powers.

 

While having to follow a certain moral/philosophical code wouldn't normally be that much of a limitation since breaking it entirely a voluntary act, in this particular case, it's possible for the character to 'accidentally' break this code. I'm basing the concept of an old Eddie Murphy movie "The Golden Child". For those of you who haven't seen it, there's a scene where the 'golden child' is given what looks like a normal boal of oatmeal, but contains some blood at the bottom, or a bit of butterfly wing, etc. Due to some mystic awareness, he realizes it's tainted. My character, however, is a teenage boy, so I'm betting something might slip his awareness occassionally.

 

On a side note for Thia: how does one use magic spell to atone for a transgression, when that transgression prevents you from using that type of magic anymore?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

*glances up* What? Sorry, LL, I wasn't listening to you.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

... Only While In God's Service covers this. *blink blink* *watches the cars roll by* I feel so left out.

 

I agree with Thia, 'Only in God's Service' covers it nicely.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: dietary quirks / religious rules for a character

 

See? SEE? Told you. I'm not saying there aren't a half dozen ways to do it - I'm saying that it's already been done, and everything after that is a special effect.