Crimson Arrow Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike All I can chalk it up to is Inherent, being new, hasnt completely worked its way into peoples mindsets yet. Exactly what I was going to say yesterday, but having spent some time coming up with detailed stuff about building Colossus, I was timed out and lost the whole thing (I normally cut the text when that happens, but did something wrong, somehow). I completely agree that Inherent is a bit costly for something which will rarely be relevant. Who knows, the cost might change in 6th Ed. While I haven't the time or the inclination to retype yesterday's post from memory, my suggestion was to give Piotr Density Increase, with the Visible Limitation, but NOT OIHID. Many of his other powers (Growth, extra STR, Armour, Life Support) are Linked to his Density Increase. If Piotr isn't in his organic steel form, he doesn't have his powers. Changing into his steel form is Visible and makes him heavy, both of which could cause problems in some cases, so it is a Limitation. The points difference is not that much (losing OIHID on the DI), but if anyone has a problem with it being too hard to block the change, Linked might be the way to build it. I couldn't find out how much Colossus weighed in armoured form (I didn't look that hard), but considering the Body of Stone power in FREd and factoring in his Growth, I'd say the two characters posted here have underdone the levels of DI Piotr possessed. You're probably looking at about 4 to 6 levels, with 1 or 2 of Growth. I wouldn't mind betting that if anyone can turn up a weight, it's not as high as those powers would indicate, but he was a 7 foot plus guy made of living metal, so he would be pretty heavy. I've often thought that handbooks often guess at characters' weights instead of trying to work them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike True, but Mechanon takes STUN too, so he's not very Robotic. I suspect that one day we will discover that hiding behind Mechanon is a very small man with a huge Napolean complex that can clone himself, who wants to wipe out all mankind due to a sheer stunty-egoitistic inability to deal with his inadequecies. Secretly, Mechanon is just a Power Armor suit. Mini-me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 http://www.themirrorsedge.com/examples/xmen/colossus.html http://members.aol.com/pgkrumholz/colossus/ColStats.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Acroyear As for "not in the mind" yet... the same guy who wrote the power in also did the write-up heh heh. When published works are our sample characters... what lead will most people follow? And, thus, what is the standard? It leaves the rest of us playing a slightly different game, in the end. Nobodys perfect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Perhaps inherent should be an adder? Of course that's not helpful to low cost powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Thanks KS. The first link only gave an unarmoured weight, but the second was useful. Looks like 1 level of Growth and 3 of Density Increase from those figures. EDIT Oops, I meant 2 of Density Increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Nobodys perfect? WHAT?! Actually, I can't think of any characters that have the inherent advantage actually purchased for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Acroyear WHAT?! Actually, I can't think of any characters that have the inherent advantage actually purchased for anything. Some creatures with extra limbs do. Of course, some others dont.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Chaos Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Colossus isn't that heavy of a character. You can check here for a copy of Marvel's view on his stats. Marvel Directory These are copied from the old Marvel who's who style releases for the most part. I would say OHID makes the most sense for his power. I don't know if I would allow it in an EC though. Kid Chaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonsong Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I think one of the big misconceptions about Colossus is that becomes solid metal. This is not the case. He is a normal flesh and blood man, covered in metal armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Demonsong I think one of the big misconceptions about Colossus is that becomes solid metal. This is not the case. He is a normal flesh and blood man, covered in metal armor. The writers have differed on that over the years; but I clearly remember back in the day he was referred to as being "solid organic steel" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Chaos Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Checking the Directory which is more or less a copy of the entry from The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe put out by Marvel. "Colossus is a mutant with the superhuman ability to convert the tissue of his entire body into an organic steel-like substance, granting him superhuman strength and a high degree of resistance to bodily harm. This substance, resembling organic steel, is of unknown composition but appears to be analogous to osmium and to carbon steel. He is able to transform into this armor-like state at will (the process is virtually instantaneous) and remain in that form for an as yet undetermined amount of time. (The longest time he has remained in armored form so far has been five days). Once in his armored form he remains so until he consciously wills himself back to normal. If he is rendered unconscious, however, he spontaneously reverts to his normal form. While in his armored state, Colossus possesses the same degree of mobility that he does in his normal form." So Marvel states he does change his entire body to whatever that stuff is that looks like metal. They also state if knocked unconcious he reverts to unarmoured form. They have broken the latter a few times for plot effect that I can recall. I do not recall them ever stating that he only armoured up his outer layer of tissue or even created the armour out of thin air to cover himself. His transformation is more like Banner's into the hulk than Bobby Drake's into hi ice covered form in classic x-men. Before anyone points it out, I am aware that currently Bobby can change his entire body into ice as well. I own almost all the old Marvel The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe issues as well as the DC Who's Who. I highly reccomend them if you're striving for accuracy regarding a comic character. Otherwise go with you approximation and ignore the critics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Kid Chaos Colossus isn't that heavy of a character. You can check here for a copy of Marvel's view on his stats. Marvel Directory These are copied from the old Marvel who's who style releases for the most part. Kid Chaos Yeah, thats dated information. Colossus was powered up in later suplements and in the comics to the 100 ton range and the benefits of his metal form were "fleshed out" a bit more, if you'll pardon the pun. Actually, almost all the strength estimates given in that series were later upped. Still, good base data. Thanx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Chaos Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 No Problem, it's fairly consistent with my Handbook so I use it while at work. Carrying those things around is just not an option.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonsong Posted June 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Colossus is consistently referred to as having an armored form or activating his body armor in every comic or novel I have ever read. Although it is the older story line, its been a long time since I have read any comics. Any way I am going to go with the armored form because that how it is described in the original story line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Demonsong Colossus is consistently referred to as having an armored form or activating his body armor in every comic or novel I have ever read. Although it is the older story line, its been a long time since I have read any comics. Any way I am going to go with the armored form because that how it is described in the original story line. When you say original storyline, are your referring to Giant Sized X-Men #1 and later issues of X-Men? I still recall him being "solid organic steel" at that point too. Marvel has been fairly consistent on that point in the X-books themselves; when Colossus showed up in other books in cross-overs writers unfamiliar with the character sometimes referred to his "armored skin" or "metal skin", but in the actual X-books it was his "armored form" or "metal body". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Demonsong I think one of the big misconceptions about Colossus is that becomes solid metal. This is not the case. He is a normal flesh and blood man, covered in metal armor. Yeah, as proved by Deathbird's acid lance attack back in, I think, the 150s of the Uncanny X-Men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X Yeah, as proved by Deathbird's acid lance attack back in, I think, the 150s of the Uncanny X-Men. Which was later ignored. Comics is full of inconsistencies like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Which was later ignored. Comics is full of inconsistencies like that. True, which can be said for him being able to lift 100 tons. That puts him into Thor's league, which he isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Chaos Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I'll go with the Marvel party line (aka references in material considered canon) in this case and chalk the event up to artistic license and plot device. Keep in mind that in most media forms what is typically held as canon does not stay true all the time. A power displayed by x person will be forgotten if it could easily solve or de-rail the current storyline. That said I honesly don't care what you go with just pointing out what Marvel says about it. Even his last write up on their website just before his death stated it was total tissue conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Which was later ignored. Comics is full of inconsistencies like that. It was ignored in statements of effect. Were there any visuals that contradicted this afterward? I sort of lost interest around 200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Which was later ignored. Comics is full of inconsistencies like that. One has to have a basis for converting comic heroes into the Hero System. Now, some will not agree or like you convertion you still need a basis to convert it from. Using the Marvel Handbook does give this basis. One could also use the Marvel Game, but each level has a broad range so it's not the best either. But is good refernce material anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by tiger One has to have a basis for converting comic heroes into the Hero System. Now, some will not agree or like you convertion you still need a basis to convert it from. Using the Marvel Handbook does give this basis. One could also use the Marvel Game, but each level has a broad range so it's not the best either. But is good refernce material anyway. And all of the official Marvel canon states that Colossus becomes completely solid metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by tiger True, which can be said for him being able to lift 100 tons. That puts him into Thor's league, which he isn't Like all the big-league comic bricks, that depends on the writer. Whatever they want a major brick to lift, thats what he can lift. Needs of the story, etc. Realistically, they all have practically unlimited strength bcs when it matters, questions of weight dont really enter into it. Colossus routinely toed up with the Juggernaught and also fought the Shiar Gladiator on several occasions. Jugs is on par with Thor for STR, and Colossus, while not quite as strong, was close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Chaos Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Going toe to toe is not a good measurement of strength though. Spiderman managed to mostly hold his own against Juggy and his strength is nowhere near Cain's. all in all though I agree with the sentiment. The writer and current plot have more to do with a heroes powers and limits on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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