[Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

[Sundog]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

Ohh, very nice, Silverhawk. That brings in a possiblity for "pirate points", areas in the gravitational maestrom where things are calm enough for hyperspace to be accessed. Which of course would be places where illegal shipping points would be located - also known as Pirate Havens.

Makes fencing your loot all the easier for those who don't want (or can't get) letters of Marque.

 

The navigational data for any Pirate Point would be a carefully guarded secret - only the discoverer would know what angles you have to come in at, precise location of the point, etc. And the points would be temporary; as the stars shifted their positions relative to each other they'd open and close. Probably not on a predictable schedule.

[Manic Typist]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

Ok, since we seem to be considering father fanciful notions....

 

Inspired by boarding action ideas above.... (note, this requires the acceptance of selectively permeable forcefields, ala Star Wars, etc, and would only be useful in specific situations). Still... I hope you enjoy the image as much as I do...

 

Davy Jone's Locker A maneuver used only by the most feared, bold, and insane of pirates. The pirate ship draws to within meters of its victim ship and aligns with their bay doors. Once there, a technician engages in short range computer warfare as he hacks into the target's computer software and slightly adjusts its computer regulations on its baydoor field. Task completed, he gives the all clear.

 

At which point the mob of heavily armed (and heavily doped up on combat stims, I would suspect) and angry pirates hurtle themselves towards the abyss. They run at full speeds, jump THROUGH their own forcefield, float through the vacuum of space, and pass INTO the enemy ship's forcefield, landing in the cargo bay to slaughter it's inhabitants. Spacesuits are typically not employed. Of course, if anything is even SLIGHTLY off... well, that's why they always take a few prisoners right? New recruits.

 

Don't you just love the image? The sheer ferocity and desperation of it? The fear and exhiliration? The shock on the defenders' faces? A stream of pirates hurtling in, tried by the Deep Black but all the more eager to fight for being alive? Not to mention they now have no real retreat. Some of their buddies might miss, especially if one of the ships engages in maneuvers, and end up missing the bay by just a foot or two... and bounce off the hull and into the depths.

 

Of course, more pragmatic and lethal crews will simply use their computer warfare to deactivate the enemy's field, venting it out, and then launch themselves in while wearing hard vac suits. No prisoners in that situation, however.

 

I liked it.

[Sundog]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

Ok, since we seem to be considering father fanciful notions....

 

Inspired by boarding action ideas above.... (note, this requires the acceptance of selectively permeable forcefields, ala Star Wars, etc, and would only be useful in specific situations). Still... I hope you enjoy the image as much as I do...

 

Davy Jone's Locker A maneuver used only by the most feared, bold, and insane of pirates. The pirate ship draws to within meters of its victim ship and aligns with their bay doors. Once there, a technician engages in short range computer warfare as he hacks into the target's computer software and slightly adjusts its computer regulations on its baydoor field. Task completed, he gives the all clear.

 

At which point the mob of heavily armed (and heavily doped up on combat stims, I would suspect) and angry pirates hurtle themselves towards the abyss. They run at full speeds, jump THROUGH their own forcefield, float through the vacuum of space, and pass INTO the enemy ship's forcefield, landing in the cargo bay to slaughter it's inhabitants. Spacesuits are typically not employed. Of course, if anything is even SLIGHTLY off... well, that's why they always take a few prisoners right? New recruits.

 

Don't you just love the image? The sheer ferocity and desperation of it? The fear and exhiliration? The shock on the defenders' faces? A stream of pirates hurtling in, tried by the Deep Black but all the more eager to fight for being alive? Not to mention they now have no real retreat. Some of their buddies might miss, especially if one of the ships engages in maneuvers, and end up missing the bay by just a foot or two... and bounce off the hull and into the depths.

 

Of course, more pragmatic and lethal crews will simply use their computer warfare to deactivate the enemy's field, venting it out, and then launch themselves in while wearing hard vac suits. No prisoners in that situation, however.

 

I liked it.

 

That's pretty much what I was thinking of with the high-powered version kinetic field. It stops the fast-moving molecules of air, but not the relatively slow humans.

Mmm - unless you're speaking of a robotic/remote controlled freighter, I don't see the advantage of networking the airlocks/atmosphere fields with anything connected to the outside. I know it's a trope that spaceships have one big computer to run everything, but that's a hangover from the 1950's, when everybody assumed computers had to be big and clunky and a ship could only have one. Today, that just screams "point failure source". A distributed network makes much more sense - and why network things that don't need to be?

All that said, I think you'd probably find the locks open and the fields in place. The freighter crew would probably rather the pirates came in by the access points than burning through the hull. After all, it's the crew that would have to deal with the unpleasentness of sudden decompression.

[Midas]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

A few things I thought of.

 

RE FTL: Suppose there were two classes of ships, "sloops" and "galleons" (think Serenity vs those floating cities that the Inner Planets had). The kicker is that only the galleons have FTL. Thus an insystem boat would use the space taken up by FTL engines for more cargo. They would haul a few tons to "Aciamaj" and sell it on the Free Market ("Nobody 'ere cares where you got it, Matey").

 

Then the galleons would take their hundreds of tons out to wherever they could go FTL. These things would be too huge for any pirate or fleet to attack.*

 

Weapons: Stunners; 6d6ap stun only. For either when the prize has a ransom aboard, and want to take as many targets alive as possible; or when the Piracy Patrol catches up with you. You can claim mitigating circumstances: You won't be executed right away, or after court, but will be held until somebody else's privateers can be exchanged.

 

Tanglers: (various kinds, with different adv/limits). Same general idea.

 

(I guess I am going for a lighter hearted buccaneer game here).

 

Re Boarding: Do you want to have docking (like Star Wars ep IV), boarding ships (like the villians in Star Crash** or the Magog from Andromeda), or just jump across as in the earlier post?

 

Re economics: Space 1889 has a system for selling privateer loot. It was expanded in the Karocoram (sic) supplement. The latter was billed as "The Casablanca of Mars" where a PC could meet the more famous captains, and develop rivalries, friendships, and intrigues.

 

Re Firefly: The crew of the Serenity weren't pirates, but they were scavengers, and did get hit by pirates at least twice. I don't see the ships in this mining system carrying passengers, so the "Mrs. Reynolds" scenario should be quite rare, as should a target worthy of ransoming. But hey, it happens often enough that a scion of a rich family should slip their leash and disappear into some anonymous crew slot.

 

Wreckers (also from "Our Mrs. Reynolds") should be a possibility. In that episode, the wreckers used something like a huge EMP mine. This wouldn't work in this campaign because of the FF, but something like a magascale entangle might. The "webcaster" would have to be huge, like only on microplanets or galleons, to prevent this from becoming the preferred space weapon (unless you like the idea). Has anyone done up rules for a tethered entangle?

 

Midas

*Though of course you would have a legend of some captain or pirate admiral who did just that, and succeeded, once...

**A friend of mine commented on that movie: "See! THAT'S why you don't put bay windows on spaceships!"

[clsage]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

RE FTL: Suppose there were two classes of ships, "sloops" and "galleons" (think Serenity vs those floating cities that the Inner Planets had). The kicker is that only the galleons have FTL. Thus an insystem boat would use the space taken up by FTL engines for more cargo. They would haul a few tons to "Aciamaj" and sell it on the Free Market ("Nobody 'ere cares where you got it, Matey").

 

Then the galleons would take their hundreds of tons out to wherever they could go FTL. These things would be too huge for any pirate or fleet to attack.*

 

I'm reminded (to a degree) of how things work in the universe created

by Richard S McEnroe in his book "Skinner" (and in his other short stories

that take place in the same universe). Smaller ships clamp on at "barnacle

rate" and travel between systems allowing the supermassive starliners

to take them FTL.

 

-Carl-

[Silverhawk]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

Ohh' date=' very nice, [b']Silverhawk.[/b] That brings in a possiblity for "pirate points", areas in the gravitational maestrom where things are calm enough for hyperspace to be accessed. Which of course would be places where illegal shipping points would be located - also known as Pirate Havens.

Makes fencing your loot all the easier for those who don't want (or can't get) letters of Marque.

 

The navigational data for any Pirate Point would be a carefully guarded secret - only the discoverer would know what angles you have to come in at, precise location of the point, etc. And the points would be temporary; as the stars shifted their positions relative to each other they'd open and close. Probably not on a predictable schedule.

 

The more I think about the idea of selective entry/exit corridors and 'pirate points' the more I want to make this not just a single system but a small cluster. This would create more gravitational hazards.

 

If the cluster idea was accepted, it would likely be roughly 40 or 50 million years old. This would allow some traces of nebulosity (more places to hide). It would also give more space to play in.

 

Some names for the more prominent member of the cluster:

 

Name: Spectral Type: Mass

Abuc A0IV (subgiant) 6

Aloinapsih A4IV 4.4

Oicr Otreup F0IV 2.5

Namyac F2IV 2.3

Samahab F2IV 2.3

Sodabrab G0IV 1.75

 

These should still be young enough to be fairly active to cause problems with sensor range as would the residual dust. The cluster should probably have 20 to 25 total members most of which are of lesser mass. If they were given time to the ones around the G-type main sequence stars might even develop life. This census doesn't include esoteric items such as 'Brown Dwarfs' that would also cause likely problems escaping from someone by engaging hyper-drive.

 

We really haven’t defined the exact form of hyper-drive that is in use. Although I probably won’t be able to post anything until after the weekend, I’ll see whether I can come up with something. My preference in hyper-drives is the type in David Weber’s Honorverse. A star cluster is very likely to have gravity waves, which would be hazardous to ships that aren’t precise in navigating through the cluster.

[GreenLagoon]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

Ohh' date=' very nice, [b']Silverhawk.[/b] That brings in a possiblity for "pirate points", areas in the gravitational maestrom where things are calm enough for hyperspace to be accessed. Which of course would be places where illegal shipping points would be located - also known as Pirate Havens.

 

Given the properly powerful computer, these should perhaps not be random. If they were, then it would not be safe at all to jump into, maybe just out of... That could be a fun plot twist, only being able to jump out...

[CraterMaker]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

Perhaps the Pirate Ships have Tether Cannons, which link the Force Fields of the two ships with writhing beams of energy... Gives you two effects, when one ship manuevers the other follows (allthough manuevers would be more cumbersome do to the engines of one ship having to move two ships worth of mass),

 

And preventing the other ship from going hyper due to the increased mass - of course, only if Hyper is used..

 

this is a cool project, keep it up!

 

-CraterMaker

 

PS, I can see saner crews jumping between ships using grapple guns and such, and the really really scary pirates just jumping across the gulf!

[Manic Typist]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

That's pretty much what I was thinking of with the high-powered version kinetic field. It stops the fast-moving molecules of air, but not the relatively slow humans.

Mmm - unless you're speaking of a robotic/remote controlled freighter, I don't see the advantage of networking the airlocks/atmosphere fields with anything connected to the outside. I know it's a trope that spaceships have one big computer to run everything, but that's a hangover from the 1950's, when everybody assumed computers had to be big and clunky and a ship could only have one. Today, that just screams "point failure source". A distributed network makes much more sense - and why network things that don't need to be?

All that said, I think you'd probably find the locks open and the fields in place. The freighter crew would probably rather the pirates came in by the access points than burning through the hull. After all, it's the crew that would have to deal with the unpleasentness of sudden decompression.

 

Just because the network is distributed doesn't mean the pirates can't hack a specific part of it.

 

Ignoring that, I think the sheer lunacy of the plan is far more glaring than even a "point failure source."

 

[Sundog]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

Just because the network is distributed doesn't mean the pirates can't hack a specific part of it.

 

Ignoring that, I think the sheer lunacy of the plan is far more glaring than even a "point failure source."

 

 

Actually, it's not that lunatic, and it protects against a possible last ditch defense.

 

If you destroy a ship's thrusters first, it can't do a last minute dodge to avoid the pirate swarm, and provided the pirates have maneuvering belts or guns, jumping between two ships with matched velocities wouldn't be too dangerous. And the target ship wouldn't want to blow their fusion plant just to take out some boarders - which would be a definite temptation if the pirate was docked.

 

As for the hacking - if the airlocks aren't networked in (and there's no real reason for them to be) you could only hack them by reaching the hull anyway. Might well be easier, as well as quicker, to use a boarding charge.

[Silverhawk]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

As for the hacking - if the airlocks aren't networked in (and there's no real reason for them to be) you could only hack them by reaching the hull anyway. Might well be easier' date=' as well as quicker, to use a boarding charge.[/quote']

 

I agree Sundog, I don't think that I would want airlock controls tied into the network. Beyond the hack the network factor there is the possibility of having the network fail and the locks are now unusable.

 

As for the Pirates, I would think that I would want to avoid docking until the ship was secured to prevent to possibilities. The first that there are more people on board that I can determine and they attempt to take my ship. Second is something I saw in I believe an old issue of White Dwarf (80's timeframe before it went to Games Workshop only support ), there was some additional equipment for Traveller ships. In essence a fake airlock that had a very big laser cannon in it. Tell the hostile to dock to that port. Then after contact and they've opened their lock you fire. No Defense at that range.

[Maelstrom]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

How about this:

 

1. Use jump-gate technology that is too expensive for a single person to own. There might be a gate for each race, and one cobbled together by the pirates for their own use, all outside the system.

 

2. This leaves you with sleek, system-patrolling ships that don't need to carry their own FTL -- more room for pirates, marines, ship's guns and shields.

 

This means ship speed is important within the system. It also gives you pockets of civilization around each gate, much like ports -- the port(al) at Amahab may have a station, frigates and smaller ships to protect it, governors, viceroys, fancy parties, courts of equity and dens of iniquity . . .

 

Further, since your ships are slower-than-light, you have more of a piratic feel -- you can now overtake your prey, take out the engines and board, with one eye always on the nearest portal to see if you'll wind up with official problems. Or, disguise your ship and steal the handwavium straight from the governor's assayer!

[SpydirShellX]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

One of the earlier posts mentioned the idea of solar sails. In a multiple star cluster like we have, you could actually work in "currents" of solar winds.

Not to mention that the solar sail method would be a good transportation method for anybody trying to avoid sensors. No active drive means less energy to detect... good idea for both pirates and those trying to avoid them.

 

This could lead to all sorts of tactics. "Tacking" against the solar winds. Gravetic Anchors to attach to asteroids. Ion drives would probably be required for working against the solar winds or for chases... although even in a chase you might not want to use it since it could attract more trouble than it's worth.

 

In addition, if we throw a few stars that fluxuate semi-randomly we can even get some weather.

 

Also a black hole coupled with some phenomenon that spits out matter might be an interesting combo. ("The Maw and the Malestrom" comes to mind for names) "Aye, laddy... we pulled in tight near the maw. The gravetic compensators we rattling like ol' Yellowbelly's knees, but they stayed on our tail. Then One-Eyed Jack, he slid us right into Malestrom. Not sure how he did it, but that lost 'em..."

[LaughingLunatic]

Re: [Campeign Creation Project] Pirates of the Naebbirac Astroid Belt

 

I like it so far.

We've blocked the victims' escape route into hyperspace with the cluster of stars and strong gravity fields; but we still haven't mentioned how we're going to stop the target ships for boarding. On a related note it has not been decided if the ships of the cluster will use solar sails or powered drive systems.

 

Working backwards, lets address the problem of sub-light drives first: Powered Drives vs. Solar Sails.

 

 

Solar Sails:

Advantages

 

- Thematically/cinematically appropriate, allows for 'sailing' ships of the 'sea'

 

- Cheap, sunlight is effectively free and no fuel reserves

 

- Efficient, again, no fuel for thrust

 

 

Disadvantages

 

- Speed, very slow accelerations

 

- Size, solar sails would be kilometers to a side (a 1km x 1km sail would generate approx. 2 lbs of thrust)

http://www.solarsails.info/sailing/intro.html

 

- Durability, solar sails would be very fragile, easily damaged by the debris within the cluster which would reduce propulsion to nil

 

- Stealth, the large size and material of the sails would make them easy to spot via radar and active detection systems

 

Powered Drives:

Advantages:

 

- Speed, a powered drive accelerates very quickly

 

- Stealth, a powered drive can be turned off or run a varying power levels for maximum stealth

 

- Size, much smaller than the ship that it powers/pushes

 

 

Disadvantages

 

- Style, not as romantic as 'sails'

 

- Expensive, reaction mass / fuel costs money that eats profits

 

- Stealth, potential 'vapor' trail to follow (actually.... that might not be a disadvantage)

I think both propulsion systems have merits in this type of setting. I recommend using both, after a fashion... Why not use the solar sails for the large galleons; steal a page from the BattleTech universe and let the galleons use large solar sails to charge their hyperspace drives? This would give the galleons a potential achilles heel for truly bold and brazen pirates to aim for. The smaller ships (sloops, pirate ships, etc) that operate within the cluster itself would primarily use powered drives due to the higher manuverability offered by such systems.

 

Which brings me back to my initial question: How do the lucky pirates convince the nice victims to 'heave to' and give up the goods? (besides shooting a warning shot up... er, across their nose)

 

Here is a suggestion:

 

'Anchor' Class Interdictor Missile

The missile was originally designed to safely disable 'runaway' or 'out-of-control' ships without putting the passengers, crew or cargo of said ships at risk. The warhead is designed to disrupt active propulsion systems; reducing a rogue ship's velocity/acceleration in a controlled manner. The missiles have a lifespan of only 5 minutes after which the interference stops and the ships propulsion systems begin working normally. Unfortunately, these missiles are not always reliable and occasionally do not work, even after successfully hitting their target. Additionally, these missiles are almost totally ineffective against Solar Sail based propulsion systems.

 

'Anchor' Missile

Effect: Suppress (Flight) 5d6

Shots: 1

Range: 45 kilometers

 

Suppress 5d6

- Increased Maximum Range (22,500" or about 45km; +1/2)

- Indirect(Always fired forward from ship, but can attack from any direction; +1/2)

- No Range Modifier (+1/2)

(75 active points);

- OIF Bulky (-1)

- 1 Continuing Charge (5 minutes; -3/4)

- Real Weapon (-1/4)

- Extra Time (reaches targets within 2km the same Phase, takes +1 Segment per additional +2km; -0)

- Activation Roll 12- (Burnout; -3/4)

Total Cost: 20 points

 

I decided using the format of the MAME missiles (Spacers Toolkit, p56) was simpler than using the Nuclear Space Missile (Star Hero, p195). Of course, by making the missile a vehicle, it can be given a guidance computer which would help it overcome those semi-permeable force fields... hmm... decisions, decisions.

 

I was trying to come up with a similar method to use against Solar Sails. A 'Chain Shot' missile, but I didn't like the way any of them were coming out. Pretty much any damage to a Solar Sail will reduce its effectiveness permanently, until repaired or replaced. I'm thinking a Drain power of some sort with delayed recovery...

 

Well... those were my thoughts, let me know what you think.