Skills? How many points are normal?

[Markdoc]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

And then there is Cyclops.

 

I've snipped the rest, because this sort of makes the point - though you could lump Iceman and a few of the other X-men in with him, I guess. Indeed, his skill set is every bit as solid as Jean Grey's (at least she now has a fancy backstory even if it is inconsistent, filled with continuity errors and added years after the character debuted).

 

And for all of that, I don't see him as an invalid character (In fact I kind of like Cyclops). You could say he's bit boring, but his psychological disad.s have driven plenty of stories over the years.

 

Certainly Cyke's backstory is not as filled out as say, Woverine's, but then Wolverine's backstory has been so filled out it looks like Juggernaut after a 30 year eating binge - it's become kinda grotesque.

 

cheers, Mark

[Mike W]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

My first time playing in a champions game in..well ages.. I think last time i saw a champions book it was first edition. How many skill points do normal 350 points charcters have or..Should they have?

Most of the printed ones have about 50 pts it looks like including ks and such..and Im a bit worried my 275 pts character only has 21 pts worth.

 

In 4th edition, when you only got 250-275 points to start, having 20-30 points of skills was normal (though I'd usually shoot for 30-40). The extra 100 points we get now are generally used to buy skills and round out characters more. The AP caps generally haven't changed in most campaigns, at least not that I've noticed.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

And for all of that, I don't see him as an invalid character (In fact I kind of like Cyclops). You could say he's bit boring, but his psychological disad.s have driven plenty of stories over the years.

 

I never said he was invalid, but that still doesn't mean he would have much to do in most of the games I've been involved in. Outside of combat of course, where he would make titans tremble!!! or giggle... depends on who's writing really

[Markdoc]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

If you did not have those skills I would assume you had no real interest in exploring that aspect of the character. Ever. Or that if you did, you expected to be just as clueless about Smallville as Diana and Bruce, which probably wouldn't make much sense unless Smallville had Changed a lot since you've been gone.

 

By contrast if you spend points on AK: Smallville, this tells me you have at least a passing interest in having an adventure back home so that you can tell all your friends about who makes the best quilts and cooks the best pies and so forth. I, as a GM , would want to make that skills usefull at some point, if not completly pivitol.

 

And this, I guess, comes down to a matter of preference. To me, AK: Smallsville is only appropriate if you really, really know Smallsvile. Like you, if a player bought this kind of thing, I'd try and work it into a game, but I would certainly never assume that its absence meant he had no desire to return to Smallsville, ever. To me, AK: means a great deal more than "has spent time there" - that's what an everyman roll is for and why Clark knows more about Smallsville than Bruce, even if he didn't buy the skill.

 

Skills, for me, mainly offer a wider arrays of challenges that I can throw up against the characters and have them succeede at.

 

Sometimes powers may offer similar or greater versatility then skills. I'm not denying that at all and I have been in plenty of games where powers eclipsed skill use several times over.

 

But I've never seen somone solve a detective mystery with a 12d6 AP Energy Blast. And when you can't fly, teleport or throw the bomb far enough away to save the entire eastern seaboard, you damn well better hope you have somone on the team that has Demolitions... or a powered equivelent that probably cost 10 times as many character points

 

Well, yeah - but good roleplayers will often find a way around that lack.

 

In the example you give above (from our very first Champions game) when confronted with the really big bomb we couldn't defuse, one of the characters grabbed it and flew as fast as he could into the sky - and was still going upwards when it went off in his hands....

 

You know, I don't think some skill rolls would have improved the roleplaying in that session.

 

Now I'm not saying that players shouldn't have skills - quite the reverse. I encourage them in my game. But there is a wide, wide ocean of difference between encourage and require. I likewise encourage a decent background description, but I don't require a 15 page essay (in fact, I tend to *discourage* that, since it often involves "Using the spells he had learned from his parents, he fled from the laboratory where he gained his cyborg enhancements, to the monastery where he was trained in martial arts by...")

 

For me, simple, succinct and flavourful is the way to go.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

I never said he was invalid' date=' but that still doesn't mean he would have much to do in most of the games I've been involved in. Outside of combat of course, where he would make titans tremble!!! or giggle... depends on who's writing really [/quote']

 

Yep, and as long as the player knows that, I'd be cool with it.

 

cheers, Mark

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

And for all of that' date=' I don't see him as an invalid character (In fact I kind of like Cyclops). You could say he's bit boring, but his psychological disad.s have driven plenty of stories over the years[/quote']

 

This alludes to a key point I think has been missed in this discussion. It seems to be assumed by many posters that "more points spent on skills" = "better role playing". Consider two characters, one with virtually no skills (may actually have none whatsoever) and one with a superabundance of skills.

 

Skilless is a young genie trapped in our dimension. He is a creature of pure magick with no familiarity with our dimension, and spends no points on skills. However, he has a well-developed personality. He is "impetuous, impulsive and impatient" [psych lim], loyal to a fault and hugely naive. He always tries to help out, not always successfully. I think this could be a very interesting, well role played character - despite having no skills.

 

Skillful has trained in everything. He has sciences, social skills, investigative skills, knowledge skills, engineering skills - he basically has a PhD in everything. In play, his player listens quietly to the GM, skims down his character sheet and says "My X Skill should apply here. With my levels, I have a 23- roll." I don't see all those skills contributing to role playing...

 

I'm going to guess that these three are referring to the same DC character Firestorm. It's been 16+ years since I've had a subscription to Firestorm, but I do recall one scientist and a high school or college kid being the two parts of him. If Ron Raymond is the hs/college kid, he wouldn't need many skills for the high school part, but could easily have more than 6 for college. The Professor/Scientiest would obviously be allowed more. And for one person playing Firestorm having two "normals" he would be able to combine his skill totals.

 

Though, if Raymond and Stein aren't the "normals" of Firestorm, then disregard, but hopefully you'll understand my point.

 

Sounds like Firestorm to me. As an alternative example, what about Nova/Rich Rider. This character has apppeared, on and off, since the 1970's. Rich was a high school student (and not a great one, unlike Peter Parker, say). His progress over about 30 years of continuity? He's a high school drop out. The jobs I can recall him holding include burger flipper, delivery person (Nova Express - Nova could fly pretty fast) and TV Personality (New Warriors TV show). Does that merit a huge skill set?

 

Ronnie Raymond would have been a similar starting character. In fact, after Martin Stein was eliminated, he was shown being tutored in chemistry because he wasn't able to effectively use Firestorm's transmutation powers lacking the basics of this science.

 

Meh, here's a decent skill set, early 20s, some college, high school diploma, hangs out with buddies, has fun on the weekends, works at a garage:

 

PS: Mechanic (Everyman 0pts)

Mechanics (3pts)

Gambling: Cards (likes to vacation in Vegas; 2pts)

Paramedics (boss paid for first aid certification; 3pts)

KS: Cars (he can recognize most cars on site, base roll; 2pts)

AK: Vegas Hotels (he knows the good buffets; 2pts)

AK: Home City (he knows the streets better than average; 3pts)

Seduction (ladies man; 3pts)

 

That's 18 points in nothing but non-combat or "adventure" related skills.

 

This depends a lot on what we accept as "valid skills". Would a journeyman mechanic have the full 3 point Mechanic skill, or a Familiarity or 11- roll? Does playing cards justify an 11- gambling roll? The suggestion that the Thing (who's a pretty avid poker player) shouldn't even have a Familiarity in gambling would say no.

 

That Paramedics skill seems pretty spectacular for a St. John's Ambulance course. He's as good at emergency medical treatment from a course as he is at fixing cars from doing this for a living?

 

He could also be a good cab driver with that AK, or a tour guide in Vegas with his other AK. That Seduction is pretty spectacular as well, compared to Joe Average.

 

I'm not denying all these skills can be justified, but I am saying that's a pretty good skill set when compared to Joe Average's Everyman skills. A lot comes down to campaign style. That skill set could easily be reduced to:

 

PS: Mechanic (Everyman 0pts)

Mechanics (1 pts) - he's got some basic familiarity from working in a garage, so he can perform routine tasks

Gambling: Cards (likes to vacation in Vegas and quite good; 1pt)

Paramedics (boss paid for first aid certification; 1 pt familiarity)

KS: Cars (he can recognize most cars on site, base roll) This could logically be subsumed into PS: Auto Mechanic, couldn't it?

AK: Vegas Hotels (so he knows the good buffets?; 1 pt is probably generous for this, IMO)

AK: Home City (he knows the streets better than average; 2 points) I'm not sure why he's an expert in his city streets. Don't I get an Everyman in this for free? But let's bump him to 11-.

Seduction (ladies man; 3pts)

 

Even if we leave him the suave ladies' man, we have 9 points for the same basic backstory under a different set of campaign assumptions as to how good your skills need to be to back up the backstory.

 

If I need a 3 point AK to be familiar with the city streets, what does a professional cab driver or the city planner need? If St. John 's Ambulance certification is a full Paramedics skill, what does full training and licensure as a paramedic, with 10 years' experience, translate into? If I need a PS: Auto Mechanic, KS: Cars and Mechanics skill to work at a garage, what does a skilled and experienced auto mechanic who owns that garage need in these same skills? And how many more business-related skills does he require?

 

One final thought: if your players aren't sinking as many points into skills as you think they should, maybe that's an indication that your game doesn't give those skills any value. If my character invests 25 points into Interaction skills, and you then resolve interaction with NPC's the same for him as for a Superscientist with no Interaction skills, I don't consider myself to be getting value for those points. If your goal is simply to shave 10% of the character's points off into abilities which will never have any impact on the game, why not just start the characters at 10% less points to begin with and ignore the skills entirely? Sure, Wolverine has a lot of skills. And he gets to use them in his adventures!

[Rapier]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

While Champions may be an RPG designed in the flavour of comic books, its not the same.

 

Arguing about how many skill points the Thing had is ludicrous. The Thing had as few or as many skills as he needed when the writer sat down at his desk. You might as well argue how many points he was created on. Comic books have very little, if any, continuity. There is no everyriding theme or development path. Each writer did, pretty much, whatever he wanted to the character whenever he wanted. If the writer was in the middle of a divorce, suddenly the Thing is beating up some guy his ex-girlfriend is dating. He had never done anything like that before and never would again, but for that one brief instant he did. The writing for comic books sucks. To try and rationalise an argument in a fully-developed RPG campaign setting by what happens in the catch-as-catch-can world of comic books is downright silly.

 

There are different interpretations of EveryMan skills. Some people consider PS: Mechanics an everyman skill. EveryMan, in my mind, means just that. EVERY MAN (non femalely-exclusionarily, of course) has that skill. Does everyone have some ability in Mechanics? Heck no! I worked with a guy that didn't know how to refill his windshield washer fluid or check his oil.

 

EveryMan Skills are things like AK: Campaign City, Computer (for a modern day campaign), TF: Horseback Riding (for a wild west game), KS: Leaders of the Third Reich (for a pulp game). Lack of these types of skills is a Disad (maybe not worth much, if any, points).

 

If not everyone has the skill it is NOT EveryMan, it's Familiarity...and those are 1pt a piece.

[Questar]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

Some players can put most of the pieces together on their own and only need the skill for completeness sake, so that they are not being out of character when they convince Dr Destroyer to help cure cancer. They do all of their Conversation, Persuasion and Seduction with pure roleplay.

 

Other players desperatly need that Oratory 20- because they want to play Captain America but have all the charisma of a rock in real life. I have a very good friend like this. You and I might dream of flying or throwing buildings as super powers. He thinks it would be awsome to just be super suave. Both equally valid forms of escapism...

 

quote]

 

Now that I've got a moment, I wanted to respond to this example, because I think it's a good one. I hadn't actually thought of this, because I have never had a player who had no roleplay ability but desperately wanted to have the skill of Oratory. Usually the non-roleplayers in my group shun these kind of talking skills.

 

So here you have a guy who simply *cannot* roleplay the skill, but wants to simulate it with a die roll. Nothing wrong with that. But the point that strikes me is that even though he paid the points for such a "talking" skill, it didn't then make him into a roleplayer. He just rolls the dice and says, "I made my roll by 4. I gave a terrific speech".

 

This is thought-provoking to me, because my GM style would be to assume that if a player wanted Oratory, he would want opportunities to roleplay the skill. But in this case, that would be wrong, the player wants opportunities to *use* the skill but not to roleplay it. Shows you gotta know your players, and not just judge by what they have on their sheet.

 

Still, this was his choice. He wanted this, and must enjoy using the skill. No one told him, "You need X number of skill points" and he chose Oratory out of a need to fill a requirement.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

While Champions may be an RPG designed in the flavour of comic books, its not the same.

 

Arguing about how many skill points the Thing had is ludicrous. The Thing had as few or as many skills as he needed when the writer sat down at his desk. You might as well argue how many points he was created on. Comic books have very little, if any, continuity. There is no everyriding theme or development path. Each writer did, pretty much, whatever he wanted to the character whenever he wanted. If the writer was in the middle of a divorce, suddenly the Thing is beating up some guy his ex-girlfriend is dating. He had never done anything like that before and never would again, but for that one brief instant he did. The writing for comic books sucks. To try and rationalise an argument in a fully-developed RPG campaign setting by what happens in the catch-as-catch-can world of comic books is downright silly.

 

Yet a comic boook role playing game is intended to simulate that genre, is it not? The difference is that the Thing's player writes him, and thus is consistent as to what skills he has. Because it's all written down, the writer doesn't show up one day and decide Ben was a college basketball star, so suddenly he has a bunch of basketballl skills.

 

There are different interpretations of EveryMan skills. Some people consider PS: Mechanics an everyman skill. EveryMan' date=' in my mind, means just that. EVERY MAN (non femalely-exclusionarily, of course) has that skill. Does everyone have some ability in Mechanics? Heck no! I worked with a guy that didn't know how to refill his windshield washer fluid or check his oil.[/quote']

 

The official listing of modern-day everyman skills includes, IIRC, a single PS for the character to earn a living. That is where the hypothetical character gets PS: Mechanic. It could have been PS: Lawyer, PS: Clown or PS: Burger flipper, but Everyman includes one "earn a living" PS.

[Niles]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

PS: Saxophone 11- 2 pts.

PS: Trombone 8- 1 pt.

PS: Baritone 8- 1 pt.

PS: Tuba 8- 1 pt.

PS: Clarinet 8- 1 pt.

PS: Oboe 8- 1 pt.

PS: Piano 8- 1 pt.

How is this better than?

 

PS: Musician 11- (Saxaphonist, plays a number of other instuments at -3 unfamiliarity penalty) 0 points(everyman)

 

Oh look, the same concept expressed both more eficiently and closer to designer intent.

Most long skill lists I've seen could use similar condensing.

[Zed-F]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

My character Soulbarb has about 40 points of skills (not counting CSLs) on a 250-point base because she's supposed to be a competent investigator.

 

My character Sylph is built on 350 points. Not counting CSLs she's only got about 20 points of skills because she's an 'everyman' university student. I gave her a bunch of KSs to reflect her university education, but I could reasonably have skipped those. In fact, the way I play her, she could be just as much in character if I'd given her no skills at all beyond the everyman ones. (I just didn't want her to be totally incompetent on the skills front.)

 

EDIT: I suppose I should have some sort of point. Which is that while I prefer characters that have a decent amount of skills, I think it's perfectly reasonable to have either as high or as low a skill point total as is necessary to capture the essence of the character. If the character is supposed to be relatively unskilled, then don't buy skills. Just because Sylph didn't buy an AK for the university campus, doesn't mean she can't find her way around. She just may have a bit of trouble if she wants to take an unfamiliar route from A to B as quickly as possible.

[Shike019]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

How is this better than?

 

PS: Musician 11- (Saxaphonist, plays a number of other instuments at -3 unfamiliarity penalty) 0 points(everyman)

 

Oh look, the same concept expressed both more eficiently and closer to designer intent.

Most long skill lists I've seen could use similar condensing.

 

Ok, we do that and I would still have over 20 pts in background skills. And this is me, as a person, by the time I graduated High School.

[Questar]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

This alludes to a key point I think has been missed in this discussion. It seems to be assumed by many posters that "more points spent on skills" = "better role playing".

 

 

What you're saying is exactly the point I've been talking about in previous posts.

 

If I need a 3 point AK to be familiar with the city streets, what does a professional cab driver or the city planner need? If St. John 's Ambulance certification is a full Paramedics skill, what does full training and licensure as a paramedic, with 10 years' experience, translate into? If I need a PS: Auto Mechanic, KS: Cars and Mechanics skill to work at a garage, what does a skilled and experienced auto mechanic who owns that garage need in these same skills? And how many more business-related skills does he require?

 

I have to rep you for that. The idea that you must pay points for every niggling piece of knowledge your character might reasonably possess can balloon skill costs without actually adding any value to gameplay. And it makes the character creation process itself all the more burdensome.

[Zed-F]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

Ok, we do that and I would still have over 20 pts in background skills. And this is me, as a person, by the time I graduated High School.

I don't agree with defining skills on that level. To me, an 11- roll in something is supposed to mean you're capable of making a living on the basis of that skill. (It might not be a very good living, depending on how in-demand the skill is, and depending on how many people with better than 11- rolls are around.) Just because I can play a number of musical instruments, doesn't mean I have spent points on those skills.

 

Different GMs often have a different idea on what having points spent in a skill actually means in terms of the character's ability with the skill. Accordingly it's unsurprising to see some people take the tack that long skill lists should be near-mandatory, whereas others take a more minimalist point of view.

[Questar]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

Ok' date=' we do that and I would still have over 20 pts in background skills. And this is me, as a person, by the time I graduated High School.[/quote']

 

 

This is exactly what I meant by the ballooning cost of skills. In your campaign, I'd have to buy 20 points of skills just to be on the level of a high school graduate.

 

And yet that same 20 points invested in powers would make me superhuman. Does this seem right to anyone?

[Vondy]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

How is this better than?

 

PS: Musician 11- (Saxaphonist, plays a number of other instuments at -3 unfamiliarity penalty) 0 points(everyman)

 

Oh look, the same concept expressed both more eficiently and closer to designer intent.

Most long skill lists I've seen could use similar condensing.

 

Everyman Skill: Musician 11-

Music Master: +3 PSL With Unfamiliar Musical Insturment Penalties.

 

I'm within 6 points and now I can play everything!

 

Mwahahahahahaha!!!!!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

Well, first I don't think Skills (long lists or no lists) will make a person a better role player. Even if you have the skills written down if you don't know or refuse to do anything with them it won't matter.

 

What more skills represent really is Opportunity For Story. If you have nothing on your character sheet but Everyman you're telling me "Hey, I'm just here to beat stuff up, maybe do a little something extra with my powers. But I've got no solid history, nothing really going on. I'm just this set of powers and stuff. Dig?"

 

That's how I look at it.

 

And a bit of quantification:

 

PS: Musician 11- (0 pts).

Nothing Else.

 

Ok, you make money busking in your Secret ID, or maybe a steady gig at a nightclub or something. But not too much to go on.

 

Instead try:

PS: Musician (0pts)

PS: Guitar Player (2pts)

PS: Singer (3pts)

 

Ok, now you're telling me you play guitar and sing as a main focus and have given the GM a few hooks to go with.

 

Intro Singing Talent Contest as Secret ID plotline to start a nights adventure out.

 

The guy who makes a PS: Singer roll by 3 is doing better than the guy who makes the PS: Musician roll by 3 for a start. Specilization leads to better results within the field.

And the whole thing came up because the Player said "hey, make this a part of the Character."

 

Meh, to each their own.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

And a bit of quantification:

 

PS: Musician 11- (0 pts).

Nothing Else.

 

Ok, you make money busking in your Secret ID, or maybe a steady gig at a nightclub or something. But not too much to go on.

 

Instead try:

PS: Musician (0pts)

PS: Guitar Player (2pts)

PS: Singer (3pts)

 

Ok, now you're telling me you play guitar and sing as a main focus and have given the GM a few hooks to go with.

 

Intro Singing Talent Contest as Secret ID plotline to start a nights adventure out.

 

How would this plot hook be any less usable if he has PS Musician and, in his background, notes that he plays guitar and sings? A singing talent contest still seems like a reasonable plot hook for the character.

 

It really comes down to the amount and level of skill you want to demand for the ability to earn a living. I could argue that your character, above, still isn't much of a musician, since he has no skills to enable him to write his own music and songs. And he doesn't read music, since he didn't take that as a language. He has no skills to enhance his showmanship either, so all he can do is stand on stage, pluck the strings and croon. Or I could assume that all of these are part of the skill "PS: Musician", and the character is fully capable of writing and performing his own material, and working a crowd, with just that.

[Shike019]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

I don't agree with defining skills on that level. To me, an 11- roll in something is supposed to mean you're capable of making a living on the basis of that skill. (It might not be a very good living, depending on how in-demand the skill is, and depending on how many people with better than 11- rolls are around.) Just because I can play a number of musical instruments, doesn't mean I have spent points on those skills.

 

Different GMs often have a different idea on what having points spent in a skill actually means in terms of the character's ability with the skill. Accordingly it's unsurprising to see some people take the tack that long skill lists should be near-mandatory, whereas others take a more minimalist point of view.

 

OK, how bout this. By the time I graduated HS I had been accepted to at least 2 different music programs for college and played in professional settings under a variety of Genres including Classical, Jazz, and Blues using a variety of the instruments I represented.

 

But my point, in total was, even if I take all of those as 1 pt skills I still beat 10 pts in skills as an average High Schooler. That doesn't include general knowledge skills I obtained during classes, as well as specific knowledges I might have obtained elsewhere.

 

 

Edit-

Also I think the point of this thread is whether or not a young Superhero would have 10%-20% in skills. My argument is Yes, they would. Through their hobbies, sports, classes, extra-curricular activities, etc. Of course, I guess I was kind of a Socialable Loner. I could get invited to pretty much any party I wanted, but I always felt more at home, at home. BTW, the Sax was the only instrument I was taught before I got to College, the others on the list I taught myself, and taught to others (teaching baritone, sax, and clarinet lessons to other kids). So I did make some money in High School with my musical skills.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

How would this plot hook be any less usable if he has PS Musician and, in his background, notes that he plays guitar and sings? A singing talent contest still seems like a reasonable plot hook for the character.

 

It really comes down to the amount and level of skill you want to demand for the ability to earn a living. I could argue that your character, above, still isn't much of a musician, since he has no skills to enable him to write his own music and songs. And he doesn't read music, since he didn't take that as a language. He has no skills to enhance his showmanship either, so all he can do is stand on stage, pluck the strings and croon. Or I could assume that all of these are part of the skill "PS: Musician", and the character is fully capable of writing and performing his own material, and working a crowd, with just that.

 

You're right. My example really wasn't that great. Here's probably a better one:

 

PS: Musician (0 pts) - this is the whole pacakge, music, showmanship, instruments.

 

Now add on:

KS: Jazz

KS: Country

 

He's not only extremely well versed in both genre's but he knows who's who, specific songs from either genre, major artists and could write music specifically geared towards them.

 

Now, it may just be a lot of flavor in the game. But really, who wants to eat plain meat and potatoes when you can add all kinds of spice to the food.

 

Yes fine, you can do tons of character concepts on little or no skills. But they'll be Boring. "Hi, look at my stats, aren't they great!"

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

Yes fine' date=' you can do tons of character concepts on little or no skills. But they'll be [b']Boring[/b]. "Hi, look at my stats, aren't they great!"

 

As opposed to "Hi, look at my skills, aren't they great!"?

 

In my experience, it's the personality that makes or breaks the character. Stats, skills, powers, disad's - these are just mechanics. It's the personality of the character that removes him from a set of stats on paper into a Character worth playing. That personaility could be reflected in unusual skills, strange disadvantages or solely in the manner in which the character is played. A great Character with no skills is very possible, and so is a boring piece of cardboard with any percentage of his points you wish to set invested in skills.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

As opposed to "Hi, look at my skills, aren't they great!"?

 

In my experience, it's the personality that makes or breaks the character. Stats, skills, powers, disad's - these are just mechanics. It's the personality of the character that removes him from a set of stats on paper into a Character worth playing. That personaility could be reflected in unusual skills, strange disadvantages or solely in the manner in which the character is played. A great Character with no skills is very possible, and so is a boring piece of cardboard with any percentage of his points you wish to set invested in skills.

 

This is all true. I'm just to add then - In My Experience people who have no skills of any kind make bad characters and play bad characters. On that note, I know people who've jammed on skills and done the same.

 

I just like to see a nice diverse skill set because I think that it makes a well rounded PERSON. I don't care how well you roleplay - if you're skill list doesn't say Persuasion I will assume you don't believe this character is very good at Persuading people under stress just like if you don't buy Energy Blast I don't care how well you role play shooting blasts out of your backside - you don't got it.

 

If you don't spend points on Skills you can't do those things just like if you don't spend points on Powers. Don't Got It? Can't Do It.

 

plain and simple. you wanna buy a skillless character, have fun playing your lump of clay with cool Powers.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

Oh and another thing to toss out there for the 0-6 Skills Pts:

 

I never once said I liked to see that 10-20% in Non Combat Skills, Just in Skills.

 

Like say this:

 

Power Skill (I like to experiment a bit with what I can do; 5pts)

+2 CSLs w/ MP (I've been practicing in the Danger Room; 6pts)

Acrobatics + Breakfall (practice, practice, practice; 3pts each)

[17pts already!]

Stealth + Shadowing (I know sometimes kicking in the front door is a bad plan; 3pts each)

[23 points, getting up there]

AK: City (I've learned the city better since I got this gig, helps for response time; 2pts)

Teamwork (remember that Danger Room?; 3pts)

[28 points now]

Streetwise (I know what's what; 3pts)

= 31 Points, and we haven't left our Adventuring Persona yet.

 

Stunning isn't it? Just a little imagination and you realize that maybe just Everyman Skills looks pretty weak. Seriously.

[Kirby]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

As opposed to "Hi' date=' look at my skills, aren't they great!"?[/quote']Thought: Good, this isn't a power-gamer.

 

In my experience' date=' it's the personality that makes or breaks the character.[/quote']In my experience, not every good roleplayer begins as a good roleplayer. I was a combat junkie when I started Champions. Fortunately for me, my fellow players helped me explore a different option that I have come to enjoy. And noncombat skills was a step in that direction.

 

In a group I was with, the GM's wife was a "sum of her parts" player. Her character was whatever power/abilities/levels she was. This was most noticeable in D&D where she refused to play a human (unless absolutely necessary) because humans were boring. Why were they boring? Because they could only be one level. An interesting character to her was one that was multi-class. It wasn't until the Birthright campaign came out where (for one reason or another) she was an elf or half-elf who was *only* a Magic User. She thought she was going to be so bored with this character that her husband and I got together and took half of her non-weapon proficiencies and made them hobby related (Gem Cutting lead into her jewel collection and Herbalism lead into her gardening). Low and behold, we succeeded! Sometimes, the horse and carrot (roleplaying and skills, respectively) work, by George.

[Kirby]

Re: Skills? How many points are normal?

 

How is this better than?

 

PS: Musician 11- (Saxaphonist, plays a number of other instuments at -3 unfamiliarity penalty) 0 points(everyman)

 

Oh look, the same concept expressed both more eficiently and closer to designer intent.

Most long skill lists I've seen could use similar condensing.

2 Language: Latin (fluent conversation)

9 Paramedics 16-

3 Persuasion 12-

3 PS: Doctor 13-

3 Scholar

1 1) KS: Chemistry (2 Active Points) 11-

1 2) KS: Medicine (2 Active Points) 11-

2 3) KS: Reproduction (3 Active Points) 13-

1 4) KS: Surgery (2 Active Points) 11-

3 Scientist

1 1) SS: Anatomy 11- (2 Active Points)

1 2) SS: Biology 11- (2 Active Points)

2 3) SS: Fertility / Infertility 13- (3 Active Points)

2 4) SS: Gynaecology 13- (3 Active Points)

1 5) SS: Medicine 11- (2 Active Points)

2 6) SS: Obstetrics 13- (3 Active Points)

1 7) SS: Surgery 11- (2 Active Points)

2 Systems Operation (Medical Systems) 13-

4 TF: Jetskis, SCUBA, Small Motorized Boats, Small Motorized Ground Vehicles

 

Sure, I could be cheesey and do the powergamer stint of (0) PS: Doctor 11-, but I actually want my character to be something more than that. This character specialized in treating infertility. And guess what? I not only used these skills at his job, but I was able to use them during each adventure aspect as well. This way is not only efficient for me, but it is more effective.