Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

[schir1964]

A character's limbs are a SFX of the character's STR mechanic. At least for the Human Template.

 

Why then is Extra Limbs a separate Power and not simply SFX?

 

Have at it ya'll! (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Trebuchet]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

I think it reasonably can be either or even both. You'll just get more benefit from it if points are paid for it than if it's strictly sfx. It doesn't have to be built as Extra Limb. If a character has extra OCV because he can do surprise attacks with a tail, then that might be bought as extra Combat Levels or something.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

What I thought was odd, personally, is that the cost is fixed no matter how many extra limbs you have - which to me says "perk" or "talent." Not "power." Especially considering it's often used to support an SFX, because HERO itself has no particular bonuses for "multiple limb attacks" - that's all covered under sweep.

 

IMO, this gets excised in 6th Ed to a Perk, OR, gets updated across the board to mean something. I can see where it could be used as part of a power, but again, that's more an SFX. You don't buy EB "fires from the hands, restrainable" and then negate it because the hero has six arms. We don't give extra bonuses for having them, either. So it's all... well, it just doesn't seem to stand up in the 'power' description.

 

I could almost concede that in many cases, it's a 0 cost SFX. HOWEVER. The flip side, as Treb pointed out, is if you have a tail. Extra STR, Only with Tail doesn't actually require "multiple limbs" be bought. You get a tail & have STR with it. The mechanics of combat just don't seem to account for it.

 

 

Or am I missing something?

[schir1964]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

It doesn't have to be built as Extra Limb.

This is exactly why I question whether it needs to be a separate power. Most SFX that would include Extra Limbs will also have to purchase other powers to simulate the SFX, so Extra Limbs isn't really needed since it really doesn't add anything new/unique.

 

It is more Flavor than Substance from a mechanic point of view.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Trebuchet]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

This is exactly why I question whether it needs to be a separate power. Most SFX that would include Extra Limbs will also have to purchase other powers to simulate the SFX, so Extra Limbs isn't really needed since it really doesn't add anything new/unique.

 

It is more Flavor than Substance from a mechanic point of view.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

I think Extra Limb is probably most often used to build animals with prehensile tails such as monkeys; or fantastic creatures such as dragons, manticores, and maybe a few dinosaurs with "weaponized" tails such as Ankylosaurs and Stegosaurs.

 

It may also be a useful build to represent surprise attacks when a victim forgets his opponent has a tail or extra arms or legs and isn't used to dealing with such things. And certainly it's useful for the likes of Grond, since most Grabs won't immobilize all his arms. So Extra Limbs for some characters makes sense. It's just that not every character with a tail (for example) requires Extra Limbs.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

To carry items over from the prior thread:

 

- Extra Limbs permits a character with two limbs grabbed to still have a manipulatory limb free.

 

- Extra Limbs permits a character to Grab without a -5 penalty to STR while still having a manipulatory limb free to Strike or to perfrom some other action.

 

Not a huge mechanical benefit, but it IS a 5 point power.

 

Thia, I would suggest this is a Power rather than a Talent because it's not built from an existing power or skill. Life Support - Breathe Water, to cite one example, also has a fixed cost, and is a power.

 

STR purchased as a power (SFX: Extra Limbs) allows just as much manipulation as your normal two limbs. Agree or Disagree?

 

Buying more STR adds to your STR. It does not give you extra limbs with which to exercise that STR. Defender purschases Extra STR as a power - he has no extra limbs.

 

Telekinesis (SFX: Extra Limbs) allows just as much manipulation as your normal two limbs. Agree or Disagree?

 

Telekinesis is a separate power purchased separate and apart from STR which has both range and indirect aspects. Extra Limbs use the character's normal STR, have no range and lack any Indirect aspect. Building the latter with the former seems very kludgy to me.

 

You could certainly eliminate Extra Limbs and make it SFX. You could eliminate Water Breathing and make that SFX as well - it does very little, costs very little and is a logical power for anyone whose background includes an aquatic nature. However, it provides an advantage (if only a slight one), it is not readily simulated by any other mechanics and it is therefore its own power. Extra Limbs falls into the same box, in my opinion.

 

Christopher, let's assume we eliminated Extra Limbs as a power. How would you then build an alien gambler with a hidden prehensile third limb which he uses to cheat at cards (Lando Mollari from Babylon 5 demonstrated this once)?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

The thing that annoys me about extra limbs is that it's got some penalties built into it.

 

If you have two arms, you need to use both of them to get your full STR for the purpose of Lifting or Grab.

 

If you have four arms (like Grond) you still need to use all of them to get your full STR for Lifting, but so long as you use at least two of them you get your full STR for Grab.

 

But what if you have prehensile feat (like Beast) and/or a prehensile tail (like Nightcrawler)?

 

Well, technically since they are prehensile they are considered "manipulatory limbs" now and you have to use all of them to get your full STR while Lifting (and let me tell you, that creates some weird visuals). You still only need to use two of them to get your full STR on a Grab though (a literalist interpretation of this rule could get silly).

 

Of course, someone with only two limbs can probably only Lift or Grab two things at most, where as the character with four arms has literally twice as many options. So you have the opportunity to do stuff, even if it's potentially at reduced effectiveness. Extra limbs also have lots of additional uses outside of combat, but many of those are SFX only or will carry additional penalties for dividing up your concentration (this varies from game to game of course).

[schir1964]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Buying more STR adds to your STR. It does not give you extra limbs with which to exercise that STR. Defender purschases Extra STR as a power - he has no extra limbs.

Hugh, with responses like these, all it is doing is convincing me that I'm right.

 

You are absolutely right, more STR (Mechanic) increases STR, Lift, END, and so forth.

 

Now why does the character have more STR?

SFX Possiblities: Bigger Muscles, Denser Muscles, Magic, Increased Number Of Limbs...

 

If a GM allows players to increase thier STR without a SFX rationale to support it, not my problem. Not that you do this. Your statement really wasn't addressing what I said.

 

I said the rules associated SFX Limbs (as one rationale) with STR (Mechanic), and therefore additional limbs (SFX) should be just another rationale for having increased STR (Mechanic).

 

Telekinesis is a separate power purchased separate and apart from STR which has both range and indirect aspects. Extra Limbs use the character's normal STR' date=' have no range and lack any Indirect aspect. Building the latter with the former seems very kludgy to me.[/quote']

Please make sure you are responding the context. I gave Telekinesis as an example of a Mechanic that allows for Manipulation just like normal Limbs do. That's all. And I already discounted it as being more difficult to use than STR.

 

So I don't know what your point is.

 

You could certainly eliminate Extra Limbs and make it SFX.

Thank you, and it would not really impact the mechanics in any significant way. In my opinion.

 

You could eliminate Water Breathing and make that SFX as well - it does very little' date=' costs very little and is a logical power for anyone whose background includes an aquatic nature.[/quote']

Your rationale and comparison is lacking here I think.

Without Water Breathing (Life Support Mechanic), the rules for Drowning (Mechanic) come into play, and the character dies. Significant impact on the mechanics and therefore the character. However, in support of the concept, if the campaign takes place on a desert planet with not enough water to drown someone in any one place, then yes, Life Support (Water Breathing), is worth nothing and might as well be Flavor SFX.

 

However' date=' it provides an advantage (if only a slight one), it is not readily simulated by any other mechanics and it is therefore its own power.[/quote']

Disagree, it has great impact on the mechanics. What type of campaign the GM has will dictate the actual cost though.

 

Extra Limbs falls into the same box' date=' in my opinion.[/quote']

Disagree, see the differences I expounded upon above.

 

Christopher' date=' let's assume we eliminated Extra Limbs as a power. How would you then build an alien gambler with a hidden prehensile third limb which he uses to cheat at cards (Lando Mollari from Babylon 5 demonstrated this once)?[/quote']

Skill. Simple. You don't need an extra limb to do this, but the extra limb would be an excellent SFX rationale for extra levels/bonus to the skill. Just like any other SFX that has minor benefits/drawbacks.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Vondy]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

If the character gets a benefit from it that other characters do not get then they need to pay for the effect they intend to bring into play. On the other hand, it doesn't specifically have to be bought as a power. That decision should be dependent on how it will be used. Personally, however, I'm for simple, rational applications. If you want to grab someone with two hands and pound them with the other two (grond style), or want to have a prehensile tail (ala nightcrawler), then you should purchase the power "extra limbs." True, you could buy the arms as a no range entangle, or the tail as a no range TK, but its simpler and more accurate not to, IMO. On the other hand, if you have extra legs that only make you faster, you should buy more running; if you have extra arms, but they only make you stronger and won't be used to do "arm stuff," then you should buy more strength; and if the only thing you do with your tail is make flourishes to distract opponents, or rub ladies; legs with it, then you should buy an OCV bonus or levels with seduction. The key questions are: 1) is this the simplest, most rationale way to build the power, and 2) how will the "extra limbs" be used during play - as limbs or as an effect?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

*ponders*

 

I stand behind what I said earlier - I actually agree with Christopher on this; looking at it straight up, I don't see the advantage provided by Extra Limbs (as I said earlier).

 

Now let's say your entire race is quad-armed; all of their technology is built using similar conventions to our own - which means that their weapons require TWO RIGHT ARMS or two left arms, or all four limbs, to operate. Whether because they limited manipulation, or that's just how it was designed (ethno-centric design; they have four limbs, they tend to use four limbs).

 

Their mcha designs and all of their cockpits use the same mechanics - they can operate four panels at once (we can only handle two - no matter how fast we are, we've only got two arms) and this would create a mechanical problem for a non-quad pilot.

 

The mechanics are now in play, but it's driven by an SFX. I wouldn't see a need to force the racial package to purchase the 'extra limbs' - since as was mentioned, they have to use all four limbs to get their full strength, then it really becomes flavor text (and exciting for the PCs to discover something new) while encountering this race and their technology.

 

So I'm a) standing by what I said and in accord with Chris. The mechanic alone doesn't really forward the game in any significant way.

[Vondy]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

If the character gets a benefit from it that other characters do not get then they need to pay for the effect they intend to bring into play. On the other hand' date=' it doesn't specifically have to be bought as a power. That decision should be dependent on how it will be used. Personally, however, I'm for simple, rational applications. If you want to grab someone with two hands and pound them with the other two (grond style), or want to have a prehensile tail (ala nightcrawler), then you should purchase the power "extra limbs." True, you could buy the arms as a no range entangle, or the tail as a no range TK, but its simpler and more accurate not to, IMO. On the other hand, if you have extra legs that only make you faster, you should buy more running; if you have extra arms, but they only make you stronger and won't be used to do "arm stuff," then you should buy more strength; and if the only thing you do with your tail is make flourishes to distract opponents, or rub ladies; legs with it, then you should buy an OCV bonus or levels with seduction. The key questions are: 1) is this the simplest, most rationale way to build the power, and 2) how will the "extra limbs" be used during play - as limbs or as an effect?[/quote']

 

Also, I have a small reservation in the back of my mind in terms of just purchasing extra strength for a character and then calling the SFX "extra limbs" without also buying extra limbs: there will come a point when the player wants to use his extra limbs as extra limbs and not just as an explanation for his increased strength. As a result I feel, in such a circumstance, that the character should pay for both. On the other hand, a centaur need not pay for extra-limbs because he has four legs. He should just purchase extra running and, if appropose, a reduced pen KA to represent his hooves/kick/whatever.

[Vondy]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

*ponders*

 

I stand behind what I said earlier - I actually agree with Christopher on this; looking at it straight up, I don't see the advantage provided by Extra Limbs (as I said earlier).

 

Now let's say your entire race is quad-armed; all of their technology is built using similar conventions to our own - which means that their weapons require TWO RIGHT ARMS or two left arms, or all four limbs, to operate. Whether because they limited manipulation, or that's just how it was designed (ethno-centric design; they have four limbs, they tend to use four limbs).

 

Their mcha designs and all of their cockpits use the same mechanics - they can operate four panels at once (we can only handle two - no matter how fast we are, we've only got two arms) and this would create a mechanical problem for a non-quad pilot.

 

The mechanics are now in play, but it's driven by an SFX. I wouldn't see a need to force the racial package to purchase the 'extra limbs' - since as was mentioned, they have to use all four limbs to get their full strength, then it really becomes flavor text (and exciting for the PCs to discover something new) while encountering this race and their technology.

 

So I'm a) standing by what I said and in accord with Chris. The mechanic alone doesn't really forward the game in any significant way.

 

If the game revolves around this one four-armed race (they are the base template) and other races won't be coming into play, or won't be played, then I agree with you. And, in such a game, characters without four arms can take a Phys Lim to represent their lack. However, if it is one race of many, and other races do not have the advantages extra arms can provide, then I disagree - then the extra arms should be paid four because they do provide an advantage beyond the "two armed" base template. In summation, if the base template for the game is "two arms" then you should pay for four; if the base template is "four arms," then certainly not.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

The thing that annoys me about extra limbs is that it's got some penalties built into it.

 

If you have two arms, you need to use both of them to get your full STR for the purpose of Lifting or Grab.

 

Where is this rule about using all limbs (rather than all default limbs) to get a full lift?

 

There's a fallacy inherent in this that twice as many arms should mean twice as much can be lifted. Having extra arms doesn't enhance the character's leg or back strength. I don't believe Grond can lift more with his four arms than he could with two. However, he can lift STR 90's lift capacity with two arms and still punch out Obsidian with the other two arms.

 

Of course' date=' someone with only two limbs can probably only Lift or Grab two things at most, where as the character with four arms has literally twice as many options. So you have the opportunity to do stuff, even if it's potentially at reduced effectiveness. Extra limbs also have lots of additional uses outside of combat, but many of those are SFX only or will carry additional penalties for dividing up your concentration (this varies from game to game of course).[/quote']

 

The extra limbs allow you to hold four separate objects, one in each hand. However, as you say, there's an issue of divided concentration, and the character should not be able to perform complex tasks with Extra Limbs alone. Thus, Extra Limbs allows you to use two limbs to hold an object, and another two to adjust delicate machinery to examine that object. It doesn't allow you to adjust that machinery with a couple of limbs while typing correspondence with a second set and tuning a piano with the third set as each task requires concentration. With some exra skills, you could do all three at once, but the extra limbs only provide the necessary hardware.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Where is this rule about using all limbs (rather than all default limbs) to get a full lift?

 

5ER, p34, second paragraph, last line. Or Ultimate Brick, p9 in the "Lifting Modifiers" section.

 

And this is not a new rule, as it's also on p20 of FRED.

 

There's a fallacy inherent in this that twice as many arms should mean twice as much can be lifted.

 

I'm not suggesting that at all. Merely that having extra limbs may actually be disadvantageous for lifting in some instances and I do not think it should be.

 

I don't believe Grond can lift more with his four arms than he could with two.

 

The rules I cited say he can. Specifically, he can lift 85 STR with one or two arms or 90 with 3 or 4.

 

 

However, he can lift STR 90's lift capacity with two arms and still punch out Obsidian with the other two arms.

 

Nope, he can only lift 85 STR worth. He gets his full 90 STR for punching Obsidian still though.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

VDM: Sure, I see what you're saying, but what I was promoting (primarily) is that it isn't a POWER, it's a perk or a talent. I did say in my last post that I didn't see the point in making them pay for their extra two limbs, seeing as other than making their technology unusable by people who don't have them is almost a (limitation? advantage?) on the gear (Requires bilateral limbs to operate).

 

Of course I would generally assume that the base template is dual armed (as we are). In that instance I see what you're saying. The argument focuses on providing balance, sure. The disconnect for me is that those five points don't seem to mean a whole lot - maybe that's just my interpretation, but in my original post (which is closer to my intent) I don't see them as qualifying as a power, especially considering I can have 1,000 feet for 5 points. So what, when I get hamstringed in one limb I'm entirely crippled, despite that I have 999 replacements?

 

Whirr whirr whirr.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

5ER, p34, second paragraph, last line. Or Ultimate Brick, p9 in the "Lifting Modifiers" section.

**********************************************************

I'm not suggesting that at all. Merely that having extra limbs may actually be disadvantageous for lifting in some instances and I do not think it should be.

 

I agree this should not be disadvantageous, so I would simply take the position that a character with extra limbs can lift his normal full lift with 2 hands, but cannot significantly enhance the total he can lift by using the others. I would aso simply rule that 1 hand = -5 STR for lift - you sell back an arm, you lose 5 STR from your maximum lift.

 

Thinking on it, I really dislike the idea of a character who pays for 2 extra limbs, then loses them to Impairing/Disabling wounds, being less effectie than a character who paid no points for Extra Limbs. They both have the 2 arms they started out with.

 

Nope' date=' he can only lift 85 STR worth. He gets his full 90 STR for punching Obsidian still though.[/quote']

 

In fairness, a punch is generally one handed to begin with. An all-out two handed blow might best be envisioned as a haymaker.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Christopher: simple question -

 

You have a character that wants to be able to grab and hold six other people using his normal strength.

 

What enables you to do that in Hero?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Right, strength: Hero is confused (or those that play it are) about strenth.

 

To apply your maximum strenth you need to use everything.

 

Cool.

 

To apply enough strength to hold something you need to be able to use 2 limbs.

 

If you have Extra Limbs (100) then THEORETICALLY you can grab and hold 50 other characters even though you are not applying your full strenth to each.

 

It may be that 'Extra Limbs' is not the place to look for the problem.

 

OR you can just assume that any two limbs can apply your full strenght but if you apply more than your full strength (i.e. use more than two limbs) then your back gives out.

 

More likely the rules were written for the human template and the 'extra limbs' power modifies the template.

 

OR you could assume that you reduce strength according to the following table: note that 'extra limbs' is NEVER a disadvantage - it just gves you more options:

 

Number of limbs........Reduction in strength for single limb

4.............................................-5

5-8.........................................-10

9-16.......................................-15

17-32.....................................-20

33-64.....................................-25

65-100...................................-30

 

AND you can use twice as many limbs for +5 strength: it should work out. Of course if a normal 4 limb (or 5 limb, but let us not be silly) character can apply ALL four limbs at once, they get +5 STR.

 

Cool.

[zornwil]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

To carry items over from the prior thread:

 

- Extra Limbs permits a character with two limbs grabbed to still have a manipulatory limb free.

 

- Extra Limbs permits a character to Grab without a -5 penalty to STR while still having a manipulatory limb free to Strike or to perfrom some other action.

 

Not a huge mechanical benefit, but it IS a 5 point power.

 

Thia, I would suggest this is a Power rather than a Talent because it's not built from an existing power or skill. Life Support - Breathe Water, to cite one example, also has a fixed cost, and is a power.

 

 

 

Buying more STR adds to your STR. It does not give you extra limbs with which to exercise that STR. Defender purschases Extra STR as a power - he has no extra limbs.

 

 

 

Telekinesis is a separate power purchased separate and apart from STR which has both range and indirect aspects. Extra Limbs use the character's normal STR, have no range and lack any Indirect aspect. Building the latter with the former seems very kludgy to me.

 

You could certainly eliminate Extra Limbs and make it SFX. You could eliminate Water Breathing and make that SFX as well - it does very little, costs very little and is a logical power for anyone whose background includes an aquatic nature. However, it provides an advantage (if only a slight one), it is not readily simulated by any other mechanics and it is therefore its own power. Extra Limbs falls into the same box, in my opinion.

 

Christopher, let's assume we eliminated Extra Limbs as a power. How would you then build an alien gambler with a hidden prehensile third limb which he uses to cheat at cards (Lando Mollari from Babylon 5 demonstrated this once)?

Why does this need to be any different from the 90 foot character who doesn't want to pay anything or take a Disad? Or, conversely, why should the 90 foot character be allowed to do that? That's the issue I have here.

 

Your Gambler sounds like Skill Levels for Gambling, with perhaps a conditional limitation of some sort.

 

The problem with EL as a power is that it's so grandly SFX-based. The real power, as I understand it, from your own posts is "Fine Manipulation While 2 Limbs are Engaged." Since that seems to be the only ability granted. It is quite awkward, in that we don't really have rules to begin with for when 1 limb is "extra" and can do stuff - we just use common sense.

 

That stated, the giant or the shrunken character comes with many abilities, as does the EL character. It's not clear why one has to pay "just" for having ELs while the giant/shrunken does not. Shouldn't the EL character really pay for "Fine Manipulation When Primary Limbs Engaged" or the like? Which makes more mechanical sense.

[zornwil]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Christopher: simple question -

 

You have a character that wants to be able to grab and hold six other people using his normal strength.

 

What enables you to do that in Hero?

Area Effect STR.

 

Extra Limbs has "no direct effect on combat."

 

Although the same sentence in parentheses says "yes, it does" basically in that it indicates you can punch and grab...

 

So who knows?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Area Effect STR.

 

Extra Limbs has "no direct effect on combat."

 

Although the same sentence in parentheses says "yes, it does" basically in that it indicates you can punch and grab...

 

So who knows?

 

Yes, I suppose that AoE Strength would do the trick, if you make it non-selective and so on and so forth.

 

What would that cost the average character though?

[schir1964]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Christopher: simple question -

 

You have a character that wants to be able to grab and hold six other people using his normal strength.

 

What enables you to do that in Hero?

I'm glad you asked!! (8^D)

 

Limited Area Effect. Done.

 

Addendum: Drat!! Zornwil beat me to it. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Why does this need to be any different from the 90 foot character who doesn't want to pay anything or take a Disad? Or, conversely, why should the 90 foot character be allowed to do that? That's the issue I have here.

 

Your Gambler sounds like Skill Levels for Gambling, with perhaps a conditional limitation of some sort.

 

The problem with EL as a power is that it's so grandly SFX-based. The real power, as I understand it, from your own posts is "Fine Manipulation While 2 Limbs are Engaged." Since that seems to be the only ability granted. It is quite awkward, in that we don't really have rules to begin with for when 1 limb is "extra" and can do stuff - we just use common sense.

 

That stated, the giant or the shrunken character comes with many abilities, as does the EL character. It's not clear why one has to pay "just" for having ELs while the giant/shrunken does not. Shouldn't the EL character really pay for "Fine Manipulation When Primary Limbs Engaged" or the like? Which makes more mechanical sense.

Well, I can't rep you again so soon, so I guess this will have to do. (8^D)

You've touched on some the points I was trying to get across, but much better than I have done.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[LoresLost]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

Looking at this topic, I have an image from the trailer for the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy movie where the human female (whos name I forgot) trys to restrane Zaphod from activating the Heart of Gold by grabing his arms,. This fails because she does not grab his third arm. Is this ability, being harder to restrain, worth 5 points.

 

I see both arguments here, just as a larger then normal character built with the size templates have to pay for their longer reach and hex wide sweeps, you are asking a character to pay for their enhanced ablities due to their extra limb/s.

Paying for the extra limb would be considered a penalty for a releated group of ablities.

 

But is this five point ablity just the cost of being harder to restrain the limbs of the character is my other thought (a minor adder for natural limbs, harder then normal to restrain).

 

Looking at the extra limbs as an adder for being harder to restrain actually makes sense to me, the more I think of it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Analysis: Extra Limbs - SFX or Power?

 

I'm glad you asked!! (8^D)

 

Limited Area Effect. Done.

 

Addendum: Drat!! Zornwil beat me to it. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

The I'll ask you the same thing I asked him: how much is that going to cost your brick?