I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

[Robyn]

I only read Chapters 1 & 4, but, to be honest, I'm done. I may not have completely read the book, but I've read 381 out of 592 pages, which is almost two-thirds of its text, and I have no intention of reading further anytime soon. These were the chapters on character creation, which I needed to know before I could properly build things - and if more rules on chargen are hidden in, say, the Combat chapters, don't tell me. Please.

 

I figure I can get by without ever even reading the Combat chapters, provided I avoid all combat in the games I run. Right? Prior experience should suffice to let me "get by" as a player, if need be, until I have an opportunity to read up on those rules.

 

In the meantime, I have a few questions . . .

 

The questions which have been (helpfully) addressed in future replies, such that I am no longer confused about them, have been changed to blue text so that future readers can readily identify which are still unanswered.

 

Here's a brief Table of Contents to give some indication of what can be found where in this post, and what's here to be found:

 

1) Typo/wording confusions: Spots where I found either an outright typo, or some wording that was initially confusing to me but made sense after further consideration. The former should be corrected in later releases*, the latter can probably be left as-is.

 

2) Textual clarifications, rules/mechanics: Questions raised during my reading of the text, that were not about the text; section 1 is for "WTH is this saying?", section 2 is for information that I think is missing (or for questions directly relating to rules/mechanics described in the text).

 

3) General questions: These are ideas for theoretical implementations of various game effects, and a few other questions that are more abstract to what the pertinent text covered.

 

4) Objections: A couple of areas in the text where my reaction was less of a questioning nature and more of a challenging nature.

 

In all four segments, page numbers have been cited where possible. I have made some effort to organize the lists, so those of you with copies of 5ER should be able to follow along and turn pages in one direction only, instead of flipping all over to figure out what I'm talking about.

 

*I checked my list against the 5ER Errata sheet, and my first thought was "Gee, I totally suck." Because I hadn't spotted any of those errors in the text. Going back to see if I could see them while knowing what to look for, though, I still couldn't find them. (Cue "Wow, now I really suck.") After some searching, I realized that the errors actually weren't there (at all), and must have been corrected in the online releases (such as I had bought). I have taken this as a sign that typo correction is being implemented even before the next printed release.

 

1) Typo/wording confusions:

 

page 259:

For Entangles, the typical method is to remove 1 BODY and 1 DEF for each hex out from the center. If the GM's willing to take a little more time, he can instead subtract 1 BODY or 1 DEF, alternating, from the Entangle for each hex.

So, if the GM is willing to take a little more time, the efficacy of the Entangle attack can be improved? I think the advocated effect here exceeds the intended effect.

 

page 299: Limited Powers. There are two types of Conditional Powers; power only works in a given situation, and power does not work in a given situation. In both cases, the value of the Limitation is based on how often that situation will occur, with values ranging between -1/4 and -2. I expected to find some pattern in how values were assigned, some relationship between the first and second type of Conditional Power in respect to a given situation:

 

Powers that Only Work In Darkness are worth -1/2; powers that Do Not Work In Darkness are worth -1/2

Powers that Only Work In Water are worth -1&1/2; powers that Do Not Work In Water are worth -1/4

Powers that Only Work In Intense Magnetic Fields are worth -2; powers that Do Not Work In Intense Magnetic Fields are worth -1/4

 

page 300: Linked Powers. The section under Using Linked Powers was lengthy, and after contemplating it for several minutes, I finally thought "In other words, calculate the effects to apply before actually applying them?" It seems more consistent with the spirit of the text, but the examples in that text don't cover what to do if more than one of those Linked powers would reduce the target's defenses/CV.

 

page 311: The second paragraph on this page is of a smaller text size than the rest of it. Also, in the Autofire entry under Advantages, the word "only" is used twice: "he can only use the Autofire for only one slot at a time" (either one on its own would make sense, but both together were confusing)

 

page 320: The right-hand side opens (after italicized text) with "As discussed on page 311". The discussion in question is actually on page 312, though the section it is in does begin on page 311.

 

page 328: In the lower right, under Disadvantages Earned During Game Play, the sentence opens with "Sometimes a character "earn" extra Disadvantages during play" - "earns" (for past tense), or will earn (for future tense).

 

page 329: The table shadings are inconsistent. The lines for Accidental Change alternate between light and shade, but the lines for Dependence, DNPC, and Susceptibility (the other 3 entries that take up more than one line) are uniform in light or shade.

 

page 339: On the sidebar, under Harmful Secret, the description opens with "The character has some secret that prove harmful to him if revealed" - pluralization would be inappropriate for characters with only one secret, and in any case the player might wish to receive different point values for different secrets (with different consequences if they were discovered), so a future tense reading seemed most appropriate here.

 

page 456: "Superheroic characters not only build equipment with Character Points, they must pay Character Points for it as well." is misleading; by using "not only" on the part that is different from Heroic campaigns, an implication is made that its point of similarity is an extra.

 

page 457: "Fourth, instead of having its own INT, an automaton may sell its INT back to 0 and install a computer" indicates that the automaton is paying for this (out of its own points), thus the character pays 1/125th of its cost.

 

Also on this page, the last sentence does not elaborate upon "natural weapons", but reading it as "non-Foci" makes sense, because the point break for Foci can be balanced by requiring the automaton to pay points for it (using the weapon).

 

page 466: The second paragraph under Floor Plans states that "A character can may distribute the area of his base vertically as well as horizontally." (it's possible or permissible, maybe both, but those words don't fit together like that).

 

page 486: The entry under STUNx opens with "This is the STUN Multiplier for Killing Damage weapons(a 0 means", this is a very minor typo but I had become accustomed to seeing a space preceding new parantheses, so it stood out.

 

page 487: The second sentence in the second paragraph under Explosives explains that "To hit a target with an explosive, the attacker need only hit the target hex - not the target himself."

 

The rules under Area Of Effect (page 248) already explained that all characters within an AOE were affected by the power, so I was confused since it seemed like something new was being said (usually there's a page number cited, when the book wants to remind us of previously explained rules), but I wasn't learning anything new no matter how many times I reread it.

 

page 488: The section under Shields (at the end of the page) states that using one will add the shield's DCV bonus to OCV when Blocking, but (unlike the section on Block) does not indicate that this is only for the attack roll made when the character is Blocking (to Block).

 

2) Textual clarifications, rules/mechanics:

 

pages 134-135: Neither the section on Armor, nor the section on Damage Resistance (page 145), offers a Limitation for defenses that apply only against Killing Attacks (but not normal damage).

 

page 141: Clairvoyance.

 

Mobile Perception Points: this does not adequately compensate for the speedsters who hold a running conversation. If you (through your mobile perception point) cannot react quickly enough to keep up with the speedster's changes in direction, you will only catch fragments of that conversation at best. An option to "attach" Perception Points to characters would be useful here.

 

Multiple Perception Points: are these necessary to get depth of vision with two "eyes"?

 

page 214: Under the Personality Loss section of Multiform, the final sentence concludes "the roll picks up at whatever level it left off". What is "level"? Just the reduced chance of making that roll, or the current position on the Time Chart too?

 

page 233: In light of the last sentence in that first paragraph under Noncombat Teleportation, what happens if a character (noncombat) Teleports in on Phase 6, and someone already there will try to attack him in Phase 9? Can the newly arrived character Abort to Dodge on Segment 8?

 

The usage of "later" could be taken as "any Segment after the character's next Phase", but by then it's useless; the character would already be back at full DCV. Logically, then, a character Teleporting in can Abort to Dodge during Segment 8.

 

pages 237-238: If a Transform does BODYx4 (in a single roll), and the victim gradually heals BODYx2, leaving BODYx2 effect left over, how much Transform must be applied again (if any) to repeat the Transform effect?

 

page 253: BOECV (this is a tricky one) - is Mental Awareness counted as, or in addition to, the 3 sense groups powers are visible to? Page 231, in its "Based On EGO Combat Value" entry under Telekinesis, suggests the latter by saying "It is visible and can also be perceived with Mental Awareness.", and page 309 (last sentence of the first paragraph under Visible) clarifies that Mental Powers with this Limitation must be perceivable by three sense groups in addition to the Mental Sense Group, but page 253 notes in the first sentence of its fourth paragraph that powers based on ECV are not Mental Powers per se.

 

page 265: No Normal Defense specifically discourages "lack of anything" as an appropriate defense; so, the Presence Of Something should work, right? I choose Insanity.

 

I give my character a BOECV Damage Shield, so that any mentalist who tries to read the mind of this lunatic will find that his lunacy is contagious. I just need to define Insanity, now; obviously some Psychological Disadvantages will not qualify whereas some Physical Disadvantages (built that way to reflect the character's literal inability to stop themselves) would qualify.

 

page 271: The sixth paragraph under Using Trigger Powers allows a power that has been set up - but not yet Triggered - to be Drained, Dispelled, or "deactivated by other appropriate methods". Then it goes on to list such methods as an enemy wizard Dispelling a magical trap, or a soldier defusing a landmine with a Demolitions roll.

 

How is the cost of skills (such as these) balanced with powers? Are there any modifiers to the Demolitions roll, to balance its efficacy-per-cost-unit with the powers?

 

page 273: If the +1/4 UBO version were bought as a Naked Advantage for up to 60 Active Points, how many powers could it be applied to? The two types of Naked Advantage listed on page 245 specifically limit their application to one power at a time, but I think it would be reasonable to let 2 powers of 30 Active Points apiece be UBO with this.

 

I think using it on 2 powers of 60 Active Points each, however, would be unreasonable. (There are interesting thoughts here for AOE NA-UBO's with Foci powers, but that is speculation for another thread )

 

page 285: The second paragraph under Clips begins with something about receiving 4x the number of clips when going from a Limitation to an Advantage, but I'm unclear on how this interacts with the second sentence of the preceding paragraph; is this 4x clip multiplier instead of, or in addition to, the 2x clip multiplier received for reducing the value of the Limitation by 1/4?

 

page 286: In the example of play, Lazer has a SPD of 5, therefore he uses up 5 seconds of his Continuing Fuel Charge during one full Turn. Does this direct correlation with SPD change when using non-combat movement?

 

When combat speed is being used, the character is dodging as well as just moving around, so their Speed would matter. But, for full-out movement, is the jetpack somehow getting more speed (and using more fuel), or otherwise being used more often, for the characters with higher Speed?

 

page 293: The second paragraph under Mobility closes with a paranthetical note that "Most Foci attached to a Vehicle are automatically considered Bulky.", but are they considered this way in effect only, or does this confer a point value for the Limitation?

 

page 294: Is there an option for partial breakage on Foci, in any of the other books? I think there should be a rule for powers losing effectiveness, rather than just failing outright, if Body is done.

 

page 302: The second sentence of the second paragraph under Physical Manifestation instructs us to "Treat the manifestation like a Breakable Focus for purposes of determining its DEF and BODY.", but as page 294 carefully demonstrates, the rules for a Breakable Focus don't care how much damage is dealt once it gets past DEF; indeed, it accounts for Foci Breakage primarily when twice the DEF is dealt in a single attack (otherwise, one power is lost with every attack that does 1 or more BODY, no matter how much BODY was done in that attack). No formula is given for calculating BODY.

 

page 315: The left-hand side concludes with Power Skills, authorizing characters to buy a Power Skill for their EC and use it for every slot. But a Power Skill is an RSR; what if the character wants to have an RSR for only some of the slots in their EC?

 

Can they still buy the single Power Skill for their EC, and only require it for those slots which have an RSR? Or would they have to buy it separately for each slot therein?

 

page 325: The third paragraph under Losing Powers declares that the entire Pool goes down by 18 points if the Blaster is taken away. But what if some of the other 32 points in the Pool were placed into a Limited (for reduced Real cost) 35-AP Focus? What happens to that power? Does it vanish? Cease to function properly? If the Pool is effectively reduced to 32 points, the Pool can no longer sustain a power of more than 32 Active Points.

 

page 333: The first paragraph of "What Makes A Feature Distinctive", under Distinctive Features, makes reference to an "ego signature" (these two words are within quotes in the text too). Is this a psychic "emotional residue" that can be built as a Mental Power, detection based on EGO, or meant with common usage only?

 

page 460: The third paragraph under Artificial Intelligence Computers states that AI's can be affected by Mental Powers that affect the Machine class of minds. But what if the AI was being bought to replace the intelligence of an automaton, as described in the fifth paragraph under Designing Automatons on page 457?

 

The first paragraph of Automatons in Combat specifically states that, because they have no free will, automatons are completely unaffected by all Mental Powers. But with such a build, is it still the automaton being targeted by the Mental Power, or just the AI controlling it?

 

page 466: The entry for "Another Dimension" contains the phrase "technology or powers", which indicates that technology is not considered a power. Is this the case?

 

The section under Grounds does not specify whether the "yard" around a base is legally owned by the (legal) owner of the base, and the intention here may have been to leave it unassumed. I still wonder whether it can be "leased" out to the public, permitting the city to build a park there, or if perhaps it already belongs to the city, and the Grounds part is just to define the terrain adjacent to your base.

 

I also wonder whether the "doubling" effect of +1 point on the Grounds is meant to be cumulative. Can additional points be spent to double the Grounds again, for x4 area?

 

page 467: The second paragraph under Visibility lists Computer Programming as one of the skills to be rolled against Concealment when trying to locate the base. What does Computer Programming have to do with searching for hidden bases?

 

The third paragraph allows the Disguise skill to be purchased for a base, and page 468 indicates that skills bought for a base can be used by characters within it (though it does use the word "lab" specifically). Page 470 reveals that "the occupants of a vehicle or base may be able to use its sensors, weapons, and other equipment instead of, or in addition to, the vehicle or base itself being able to do so", but can the Disguise skill be bought merely once to cover use both in a lab and as a reflection of its difficulty in being recognized (identified) as a base?

 

page 468: The final paragraph under Labs and Skills notes that "The computer needs either Extra Limbs, a robot, or a person in the lab to help it use the facility.", but provides no guidelines on those Extra Limbs; what STR can they apply to lifting objects of various weights? Can they also try to lift people, like a forklift? How about restraining intruders?

 

If a computer, which has no physical body, can take Extra Arms; what happens when the base takes Extra Arms?

 

page 472: The first paragraph under Hitting a Vehicle limits the vehicle's effective DEX to the driver's DEX if the driver's DEX is lower. This is unconditional, but I wonder - in the case of a vehicle being handled by a character with lower SPD than the vehicle, where the rules specifically prohibit changes in course or speed on Segments when that character has no Phase, how would that character's lower DEX present a problem? It's not like they could move around anyway, to clumsily (and accidentally) steer right into the oncoming attack.

 

The last paragraph under Vehicular DCV states that a driver doing nothing but driving in a Phase may make a Combat Driving roll to, in effect, "Dodge". Is this possible even when the character is driving at non-Combat speeds?

 

page 480: The page opens with a Required Hands Table, which contains an entry (valued at -1/4) for a One-And-A-Half-Handed Weapon. What is "half a hand", anyway? It requires two hands to be used; but, how exactly does this differ from a two-handed weapon, when two hands are used? Is there some way in which the "leftover" half a hand can be used, that would be impossible with a weapon occupying both the hands fully?

 

If a character has three hands, can they wield two One-And-A-Half-Handed weapons? Maybe this is what Extra Limbs is for.

 

page 484: The third sentence under Sights informs us that, to use most of the sights listed on the accompanying table, the attacker must first be Braced and be "sighted in". This could have been in the typo list, but I can't make sense of it. What does "sighted in" mean? Having eyes?

 

For the Infrared and Nightsight scope, the character apparently does not need to be "sighted in" (or so I guess). I'm trying to imagine eyes that work like a Beam weapon, so that the regular "line up two points along the barrel of the rifle" sights still work, but anyone with perception that works by sonar doesn't enjoy any advantage from it (but they can still plug in an Infrared or Nightsight peripheral to their cybernetic ports).

 

These questions don't have page references:

 

Reputation (a good Reputation) with Images: you're trying to evoke the reaction someone usually has to that person, by creating an Image of that person. But the Image isn't that person, so would you need a Transform to create the effect as a power? Still, a Reputation is technically a Perk, so it shouldn't be accessible through Transform. Is the Reputation something that occurs based on the appearance of someone, or literal recognition of them? Think advertising theory at work here: the celebrity silently endorsing some marketable item, by posing with it. Such endorsements can readily be created with a few minutes in Photoshop; more and more, Reputation is seeming like a reaction of (many) individual people rather than an ability of a single person.

 

If many (normally) Ranged powers were taken with No Range as a Limitation, and Ranged was taken as a Naked Advantage on slightly less points than the un-Ranged powers, what would happen if the powers were used at slightly less than full strength?

 

Can multiple Naked Advantages be stacked in an order of the player's choice, to facilitate applying as many of them as possible? I asked this before, and received no answer. (Steve Long, in a recent PM to me, asked me to post it in "the Questions board" so everyone could find it more easily. I must admit that I am stymied as to which Questions board would be more appropriate than the one in which I placed it )

 

3) General questions:

 

If a politician is giving a speech when your Mentalist uses Mind Control with IPE, could the politician exhibit changes during that speech, even before reaching the level of effect you were after, as your accumulated effect is sufficient to move them to intermediate stages of conviction while you approach the ultimate effect?

 

Transform: instead of Major/Minor, how about just requiring X effect "above BODY", to reflect the degree of change?

 

How would you "poison" the air supply of a base? (Say, in space.) There is a self-contained air supply, and you want to slip some cocktail of your own in there. Is this a Skill, a Transform on the entire base, a Transform on the Life Support alone, maybe some roleplaying?

 

If a Naked Advantage had to apply all the time, to any (applicable) power the character had; would this be a Limitation on the Naked Advantage, a Disadvantage taken separately from the Naked Advantage, or a Side Effect (of the Naked Advantage) added to all powers? If the latter, how could it be automatically added to all powers of a specific SFX, such that the Side Effect would only need to be bought once, and it would automatically apply to any new powers with the same SFX?

 

Conforming, or reverse Explosion: the latter would be an effect that was strongest at the edges and diminished further in (Hole In The Middle could create an "eye of the hurricane" effect, but what I'm thinking of is a reduced effect, one that is only weaker at the center but still strong enough to kill if the main effect was too powerful, not to make the center safe altogether), and the former would only have an effect within the area that was not reached by the Conform (in other words, the "prevent upcoming effect in this area" effect would expand to fill available space, but not go through physical objects, while the upcoming effect would be unaffected by physical barriers, and not expand with leftover volume to fill available space).

Foci: if this just pays for the Limitation on a power, how many points for just the item itself? The physical object? See the sidebar on page 211, by Multiform, for Vari-Armor (a Focus that can be more than one physical object), and page 214 for Foci that simply "vanish" while the character is transformed.

 

Are there any Advantages for Power Frameworks (such as VPP's) that can improve their AP limits? Reducing their AP limits can be emulated, apparently, by just buying more of them (two 10-point VPP's, instead of a single 20-point VPP with the Limitation "no power may have more than 10 Active Points").

 

page 332: DNPC's are worth +5 points if they are unaware of the PC's secret (adventuring) identity, but what happens if the DNPC finds out? I like the idea of a Floating +5 modifier to the frequency (or level of power) of existing villains.

 

pages 465-466: Location seems like it could use some attention to game balance with wealth. I might go for some nice real estate with the base, and then (later on) sell off pieces of the base for in-game benefits such as money. Is this potential effect balanced?

 

page 469: Sensors can be disabled with the Security Systems skill, but if the same AI is monitoring the sensors and running the base, it would be great to let the intruders set up a distraction to overwhelm the AI (and impose penalties on its PER roll to notice the small band of warriors quietly sneaking in the side entrance while it was besieged from front and back).

 

page 487: Looking at the Poisons, and thinking about campaign AP limits, I find myself wondering if anyone uses these outside of heroic campaigns (where Foci are bought with money, not XP).

 

4) Objections:

 

page 460: The section under Artificial Intelligence Computers allows that AI's will "sometimes" be affected by Mental Powers that affect Human minds as well, depending on just how advanced they are. As if humans were more advanced than AI's

 

page 344: The build for a Small Child is plainly ridiculous:

 

DEX - have you seen The Incredible Folding Baby? They have, like, no bones. Amazingly flexible.

SPD/REC/END/STUN - hyperactive, running all over, exhausting the poor adults (who just try to keep up!)

COM - as any mother will tell you . . .

 

HERO sourcebook: Drain STUN, set target (whoever tries to comprehend the material)

I figure it's a fair Limitation, given that the power has no IPE; victims will notice the effect right away and know its source!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

I figure I can get by without ever even reading the Combat chapters' date=' provided I avoid all combat in the games I run. Right? Prior experience should suffice to let me "get by" as a player, if need be, until I have an opportunity to read up on those rules.[/quote']

 

I'd say "no". You don't think a PC will ever try to throw a punch at an inopportune or inappropriate moment? besides, the interaction of powers and combat can result in some inappropriate character builds if you don't comprehend the interaction.

 

page 299: Limited Powers. There are two types of Conditional Powers; power only works in a given situation, and power does not work in a given situation. In both cases, the value of the Limitation is based on how often that situation will occur, with values ranging between -1/4 and -2. I expected to find some pattern in how values were assigned, some relationship between the first and second type of Conditional Power in respect to a given situation:

 

Powers that Only Work In Darkness are worth -1/2; powers that Do Not Work In Darkness are worth -1/2

Powers that Only Work In Water are worth -1&1/2; powers that Do Not Work In Water are worth -1/4

Powers that Only Work In Intense Magnetic Fields are worth -2; powers that Do Not Work In Intense Magnetic Fields are worth -1/4

 

First off, these all need to be measured by frequency in your game. I think the Mag Fields is the consistent one. Very uncommon to find one, so a huge limitation to need one and a minor limitation to be hampered by one.

 

Darkness? Well, the character will presumably seek to avoid encounters in his weakened state and trigger them where he's stronger. The ability to arrange this is considerably greater than for magnetic fields, so a reduced limitation on both sides.

 

Only/Not in Water - same issue, but to a lesser degree. If you won't come out of the water, my villains will set up shop in Arizona. It's tougher to arrange never to be out of the water, though. Of course, if your game centers around Atlantis, these values need to change.

 

page 328: In the lower right' date=' under Disadvantages Earned During Game Play, the sentence opens with "Sometimes a character "earn" extra Disadvantages during play" - "earns" (for past tense), or [i']will[/i] earn (for future tense).

 

I'm not goint to comment on the minor issues in general, but...

 

or "characters earn".

 

page 488: The section under Shields (at the end of the page) states that using one will add the shield's DCV bonus to OCV when Blocking' date=' but (unlike the section on Block) does not indicate that this is only for the attack roll made [i']when[/i] the character is Blocking (to Block).

 

"When blocking" seems adequate to me, since you can't take other attack actions when blocking. Maybe those combat rules merit a read after all?

 

pages 134-135: Neither the section on Armor' date=' nor the section on Damage Resistance (page 145), offers a Limitation for defenses that apply [b']only[/b] against Killing Attacks (but not normal damage).

 

If you need one, make one up. Then tell us the SFX, since I can think of pretty much nothing that would block a Flame based KA, but not a Flame based EB.

 

page 141: Clairvoyance.

 

Mobile Perception Points: this does not adequately compensate for the speedsters who hold a running conversation. If you (through your mobile perception point) cannot react quickly enough to keep up with the speedster's changes in direction, you will only catch fragments of that conversation at best. An option to "attach" Perception Points to characters would be useful here.

 

Usable as an Attack should work - it works to center Darkness or Change Environment around a person. BTW, you can't both have a shorter book (and your comments at the start seem to complain about length) and cover a bunch more issues and possibilities. Which is your priority?

 

page 302: The second sentence of the second paragraph under Physical Manifestation instructs us to "Treat the manifestation like a Breakable Focus for purposes of determining its DEF and BODY."' date=' but as page 294 carefully demonstrates, the rules for a Breakable Focus don't [i']care[/i] how much damage is dealt once it gets past DEF; indeed, it accounts for Foci Breakage primarily when twice the DEF is dealt in a single attack (otherwise, one power is lost with every attack that does 1 or more BODY, no matter how much BODY was done in that attack). No formula is given for calculating BODY.

 

So you don't calculate it - the same as a focus. If it didn't refer to BOD, but only to DEF, you would ask how computing BOD differs from the mechanic used for Foci.

 

page 315: The left-hand side concludes with Power Skills' date=' authorizing characters to buy a Power Skill for their EC and use it for every slot. But a Power Skill is an RSR; what if the character wants to have an RSR for only [i']some[/i] of the slots in their EC?

 

The power skill need not be used for RSR. It could simply be used to modify powers on the fly. Since half the EC could have RSR: Acrobatics, I see no reason they couldn't have RSR: One Power Skill.

 

page 325: The third paragraph under Losing Powers declares that the entire Pool goes down by 18 points if the Blaster is taken away. But what if some of the other 32 points in the Pool were placed into a Limited (for reduced Real cost) 35-AP Focus? What happens to that power? Does it vanish? Cease to function properly? If the Pool is effectively reduced to 32 points' date=' the Pool can no longer sustain a power of more than 32 Active Points.[/quote']

 

I interpret this to mean that the 18 real points are gone, with no other change to the pool.

 

page 333: The first paragraph of "What Makes A Feature Distinctive", under Distinctive Features, makes reference to an "ego signature" (these two words are within quotes in the text too). Is this a psychic "emotional residue" that can be built as a Mental Power, detection based on EGO, or meant with common usage only?

 

page 460: The third paragraph under Artificial Intelligence Computers states that AI's can be affected by Mental Powers that affect the Machine class of minds. But what if the AI was being bought to replace the intelligence of an automaton, as described in the fifth paragraph under Designing Automatons on page 457?

 

The first paragraph of Automatons in Combat specifically states that, because they have no free will, automatons are completely unaffected by all Mental Powers. But with such a build, is it still the automaton being targeted by the Mental Power, or just the AI controlling it?

 

I think you answered your own question. The mental power is targetting the computer, which is an AI, which the rules specifically state can be targetted by mental powers. It is not targetting the automoton, which the rules state cannot be done.

 

page 467: The second paragraph under Visibility lists Computer Programming as one of the skills to be rolled against Concealment when trying to locate the base. What does Computer Programming have to do with searching for hidden bases?

 

Run a search for "Internet" on your web browser and see if that helps you answer this question Also, a hacker might be able to hack into base computers and pick up some location information, or do the same with other secure systems that include this data.

 

page 480: The page opens with a Required Hands Table' date=' which contains an entry (valued at -1/4) for a One-And-A-Half-Handed Weapon. What [b']is[/b] "half a hand", anyway? It requires two hands to be used; but, how exactly does this differ from a two-handed weapon, when two hands are used? Is there some way in which the "leftover" half a hand can be used, that would be impossible with a weapon occupying both the hands fully?

 

IIRC, it can be used one handed at a higher STR minimum, and two handed at a lower SR minimum.

 

If a politician is giving a speech when your Mentalist uses Mind Control with IPE' date=' could the politician exhibit changes during that speech, even before reaching the level of effect you were after, as your accumulated effect is sufficient to move them to intermediate stages of conviction while you approach the ultimate effect?[/quote']

 

IIRC, the rules indicate that nothing happens until the desired effect is reached. BTW, have you tried searching for any of these questions in the online FAQ?

 

Are there any Advantages for Power Frameworks (such as VPP's) that can improve their AP limits? Reducing their AP limits can be emulated' date=' apparently, by just buying more of them (two 10-point VPP's, instead of a single 20-point VPP with the Limitation "no power may have more than 10 Active Points").[/quote']

 

No. There are a few threads which discuss the possibility.

 

pages 465-466: Location seems like it could use some attention to game balance with wealth. I might go for some nice real estate with the base' date=' and then (later on) sell off pieces of the base for in-game benefits such as money. Is this potential effect balanced?[/quote']

 

If you want the Money perk, you would have to pay for the Money perk with character points. If you don't spend the points, I suppose the property can't be subdivided (to pick a "realistic" reason). You could get around that with a team of lawyers, but you'd need money. If you had money, you would have already bought the Wealth perk.

 

page 344: The build for a Small Child is plainly ridiculous:

 

DEX - have you seen The Incredible Folding Baby? They have, like, no bones. Amazingly flexible.

 

Watch them try to pick up small objects, stand up or roll over. They have very poor Dex overall.

 

SPD/REC/END/STUN - hyperactive' date=' running all over, exhausting the poor adults (who just try to keep up!)[/quote']

 

They have much less STR and Running to apply, so they can keep going pretty easily.

 

COM - as any mother will tell you . . .

 

That's a mother's Psych Lim as often as a child's COM.

[zornwil]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Wow, Hugh, nice work! Nothing to add. Noticed you just missed one:

 

"page 333: The first paragraph of "What Makes A Feature Distinctive", under Distinctive Features, makes reference to an "ego signature" (these two words are within quotes in the text too). Is this a psychic "emotional residue" that can be built as a Mental Power, detection based on EGO, or meant with common usage only?"

 

From reading the text, this refers to people who habitually leave something at the crime that identifies them, "ego" in this context referring to the small-e psychological term, not a game mechanic. Not to say you couldn't build some other sort of distinctive feature. It is just an example.

[Vondy]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Wow, Hugh, nice work! Nothing to add. Noticed you just missed one:

 

"page 333: The first paragraph of "What Makes A Feature Distinctive", under Distinctive Features, makes reference to an "ego signature" (these two words are within quotes in the text too). Is this a psychic "emotional residue" that can be built as a Mental Power, detection based on EGO, or meant with common usage only?"

 

From reading the text, this refers to people who habitually leave something at the crime that identifies them, "ego" in this context referring to the small-e psychological term, not a game mechanic. Not to say you couldn't build some other sort of distinctive feature. It is just an example.

 

Gaming trivia moment: the term "Ego Signature," as its used in 5th Ed. first appeared in the 1st Edition Top Secret RPG a very long time ago indeed , made its way into GURPS shortly thereafter, and migrated to numerous other systems using the same context since then. As a result, it has a definate meaning in gaming parlance without Steve's qualification in relation to Hero characteristics, which is good, nonetheless.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

*stares blankly*

 

I have nothing to contribute. I have a lot to SAY. But nothing to actually contribute.

[ghost-angel]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Wow, Hugh, nice work! Nothing to add. Noticed you just missed one:

 

"page 333: The first paragraph of "What Makes A Feature Distinctive", under Distinctive Features, makes reference to an "ego signature" (these two words are within quotes in the text too). Is this a psychic "emotional residue" that can be built as a Mental Power, detection based on EGO, or meant with common usage only?"

 

From reading the text, this refers to people who habitually leave something at the crime that identifies them, "ego" in this context referring to the small-e psychological term, not a game mechanic. Not to say you couldn't build some other sort of distinctive feature. It is just an example.

 

To give an example of an "ego signature", or two:

 

the little knives with the skulls on the pommel The Punisher always left behind.

 

Apocalypse Now, the Death Cards that Air Cav left behind on the bodies to "Let them know who did this."

[Robyn]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

I'd say "no". You don't think a PC will ever try to throw a punch at an inopportune or inappropriate moment? besides' date=' the interaction of powers and combat can result in some inappropriate character builds if you don't comprehend the interaction.[/quote']

 

Sigh. Yes, you're right. I will have to read those pages as well, then. I'll take it along with me on the trip that I'm going on in a few days.

 

"When blocking" seems adequate to me' date=' since you can't take other attack actions when blocking.[/quote']

 

This was a paraphrasing on my part, and my typo

 

The actual text from page 488 would read:

 

If a character performs a Block maneuver he can add his Shield DCV bonus to his OCV.

 

That wording was what I was unclear on; it seemed like I might get a general OCV bonus just for using my shield in combat.

 

If you need one' date=' make one up. Then tell us the SFX, since I can think of pretty much nothing that would block a Flame based KA, but not a Flame based EB.[/quote']

 

Plaything of The Gods: You aren't sure whether you are blessed or cursed. You have survived a dozen adventures that should have killed any mere mortal (and, indeed, many of your companions have fallen by the side), but you also suffer a dozen more adventures than any mortal should rightly experience. Nor are you immune to general wear and tear; you accumulate scrapes, acquire scars, feel pain, and otherwise show the burdens of your adventuring life. But you seem to possess a miraculous ability for eluding Death's clutches when he comes for you. Though you have endured much in your travels, you still manage to practice a certain flippancy in your remarks, a roguish wit and charm that amuses those around you as often as it gets you into trouble. Perhaps you are haunted by mischievous spirits, for you occasionally hear mysterious laughter when noone is nearby, though it seems to be directed at your misfortunes as often as your clever tongue. Unbeknownst to you, this continued levity is precisely what makes you such a precious toy to the gods, and your longevity has become the catalyst of additional wagers and intrigues among them.

 

BTW' date=' you can't both have a shorter book (and your comments at the start seem to complain about length) and cover a bunch more issues and possibilities. Which is your priority?[/quote']

 

From the perspective of having not read the book, shortness is key to actually reading it. From the perspective of having read the book, I still think that brevity is important, but only with the additional context of these boards and the Rules Questions forum; the rules can afford to be short, provided that each of us can then ask questions about the non-common questions that plague us.

 

So you don't calculate it - the same as a focus. If it didn't refer to BOD' date=' but only to DEF, you would ask how computing BOD differs from the mechanic used for Foci.[/quote']

 

I don't understand what you're trying to convey with your second sentence here. There is no mechanic under Foci for computing BOD; does the Physical Manifestation work like a Breakable Focus, or does it receive BOD equal to its DEF, or something else?

 

I think you answered your own question. The mental power is targetting the computer' date=' which is an AI, which the rules specifically state can be targetted by mental powers. It is not targetting the automoton, which the rules state cannot be done.[/quote']

 

My confusion here was related to the wording confusion I experienced on page 457, where it seemed that a computer could be considered part of the automaton.

 

Run a search for "Internet" on your web browser and see if that helps you answer this question

 

I was taking it too literally - trying to imagine a virtual cyberspace base for AI PC's.

 

IIRC' date=' the rules indicate that nothing happens until the desired effect is reached. BTW, have you tried searching for any of these questions in the online FAQ?[/quote']

 

I have. Subsequent experimentation has revealed that the searchable FAQ does not search the actual FAQ for 5ER (it searches the forum FAQ instead). I actually had located the FAQ for 5ER, and read through a few selected pages of it, but mostly just passed straight through on my way to the Errata sheet.

 

I also (after reading your reply here this morning) tried reading through the questions in the 5ER Rules Questions forum, and realized somewhere around page 8 that my forum settings were only showing me the last year's worth of threads (so I'll have to fix them later on and go back to read all of them ), but I only found a few threads which were relevant to my questions.

 

I had originally considered searching through the forums first, but in light of how many questions I had (and how difficult it is to establish which questions are Frequently Asked unless we actually ask them more than once), I decided to post them anyway and I made a (mental) note to specifically look up any question which was answered with "I think this has been covered before."

 

Watch them try to pick up small objects' date=' stand up or roll over. They have very poor Dex overall.[/quote']

 

True. I would give them a level of Contortionist, but that seems to be for escaping bonds. I guess flexibility is just a SFX?

 

Thanks for all the answers! I will adjust the original post to mark answered questions.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

This was a paraphrasing on my part' date=' and [u']my[/u] typo

 

The actual text from page 488 would read:

 

If a character performs a Block maneuver he can add his Shield DCV bonus to his OCV.

 

That wording was what I was unclear on; it seemed like I might get a general OCV bonus just for using my shield in combat.

 

If you read the combat rules, you will find Block is an attack action. As such, the character can't do anything else in the phase which would require the use of his OCV, so effectively it applies only to the Block maneuver.

 

Plaything of The Gods: You aren't sure whether you are blessed or cursed. You have survived a dozen adventures that should have killed any mere mortal (and' date=' indeed, many of your companions have fallen by the side), but you also [i']suffer[/i] a dozen more adventures than any mortal should rightly experience. Nor are you immune to general wear and tear; you accumulate scrapes, acquire scars, feel pain, and otherwise show the burdens of your adventuring life. But you seem to possess a miraculous ability for eluding Death's clutches when he comes for you. Though you have endured much in your travels, you still manage to practice a certain flippancy in your remarks, a roguish wit and charm that amuses those around you as often as it gets you into trouble. Perhaps you are haunted by mischievous spirits, for you occasionally hear mysterious laughter when noone is nearby, though it seems to be directed at your misfortunes as often as your clever tongue. Unbeknownst to you, this continued levity is precisely what makes you such a precious toy to the gods, and your longevity has become the catalyst of additional wagers and intrigues among them.

 

You don't want defenses that apply only vs Killing Attacks, you want defenses that apply only vs BOD damage. A normal attack can kill the target just as dead as a killing attack. You might want to further limit those defenses so they apply only if, and only to the extent, the strike would otherwise kill the character.

 

I don't understand what you're trying to convey with your second sentence here. There is no mechanic under Foci for computing BOD; does the Physical Manifestation work like a Breakable Focus' date=' or does it receive BOD equal to its DEF, or something else?[/quote']

 

The mechanic is that the focus has no BOD - breach its defense and it breaks. A physical manifestation works the same way, just as it says.

 

I have. Subsequent experimentation has revealed that the searchable FAQ does not search the actual FAQ for 5ER (it searches the forum FAQ instead). I actually had located the FAQ for 5ER' date=' and read through a few selected pages of it, but mostly just passed straight through on my way to the Errata sheet.[/quote']

 

I generally go to the FAQ area I expect to find the answer in, and maybe use Control F to seek out a keyword.

 

I also (after reading your reply here this morning) tried reading through the questions in the 5ER Rules Questions forum' date=' and realized somewhere around page 8 that my forum settings were only showing me the last year's worth of threads (so I'll have to fix them later on and go back to read [b']all[/b] of them ), but I only found a few threads which were relevant to my questions.

 

You might want to try the Search Forum feature for keywords related to your question (eg. "Shield" for your shield block question).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

You should also considering purchasing a copy of:

 

HERO System Combat Handbook (HCH)

HERO System Equipment Guide (HEG)

HERO System Bestiary (HSB)

 

They make life better. I was empty without them. Now I am fulfilled. Aoooommmm.... ah!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Other thought:

 

I've learned gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. In order to understand a game, to really grasp how rules work not just philosophically, but practically, you have to just sit down and PLAY THE F'ING GAME.

 

This is the line between intelligent implementation and meaningless discussion. The discussion doesn't matter a whit without application. This is what Zornwil was saying in HIS post some time ago. He asked if it would be possilbe to construct our discussions around rules application, rather than discuss them in an empty room, devoid of human interaction.

 

As Hugh points out so eloquently, someone's going to throw a punch. Someone's going to buy a 9d6 NND Does BODY Resistance: Magnetic Shielding (because hey, it's a defense). From the conversations you and I have had, and from reading the post here, you seem to still lean towards RP rather than any other approach. Which is fine, and absolutely valid, but coming from the superhero genre, where combat is plentiful, there are many elements of the rules beyond just the 'combat engine' which are interwined with, or directly affect, combat & its outcome.

[gojira]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

I've learned gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum.

 

Well, sure. It's hard to breath in a vacuum, and with no oxygen, who's going to pay for the pizza?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Remember that time I slapped you so hard your rubber suit got dizzy?

 

No? It felt like this!

 

Point being, that there's an element in Zornwil's thread where I agree with him and went so far as to point out (which was repitition, actually) that I go to a lot of effort to put mechanics in context, rather than discussing mechanics for the sake of mechanics. Here, it appears that the entirety of the OP is about having not really applied any of the ideas to a real game.

 

Four hours with three other people, and the rules will become almost self-evident. I'm one of the apologists who finds HERO easier than d20, so that only makes all of this that much more confusing.

[ghost-angel]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

I'm one of the apologists who finds HERO easier than d20' date=' so that only makes all of this that much more confusing.[/quote']

 

That's cuz they are. The AoO Rules in D20 alone make the Adding Damage Rules in Hero look simple.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Heh. AoO gave me fits for ... something like six months because not only was the concept super alien to me, the way it worked took me a while to puzzle into something reasonable. Finally I said "Okay, so if for whatever reason you aren't paying attention, you get tagged." Simple 'nuff. Archers, Casters, people looking down scopes, all draw an AoO.

 

You can import that mechanic wholesale, but later I said, "Hmm. Maybe I should just play HERO for a while, and then figure out what I'm going to tweak?" And that's really my point. Play the game, learn the rules (or make decisions) based on that, and then worry about tweaking/modding.

[buzz]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

That's cuz they are. The AoO Rules in D20 alone make the Adding Damage Rules in Hero look simple.

Wow. For me, D&D's AoO was a couple paragraphs that are pretty much second-nature now. Adding damage in HERO is four pages (FOUR pages!) out of the book that make think, "Yeah, there are parts of this game that are way more complicated than they need to be."

[ghost-angel]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Wow. For me' date=' D&D's AoO was a couple paragraphs that are pretty much second-nature now. Adding damage in HERO is four pages (FOUR pages!) out of the book that make think, "Yeah, there are parts of this game that are way more complicated than they need to be."[/quote']

 

It's when you start adding all the Feats from the various random sources.

 

I find adding damage in Hero to be rather simple honestly. It's never confused me much.

[buzz]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

I find adding damage in Hero to be rather simple honestly. It's never confused me much.

It just never seems to sink in for me, especially when it involves STR and advantages. I honestly think it could be a bit more intuitive.

 

Granted, I mostly play Superheroic games, and my GMs run pretty "lite" with the rules. We'll see how I feel when my Star HERO campaign starts in a few weeks.

[ghost-angel]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Damage in Heroic games tends to be even easier. Usually there are less options running around for what's being done.

[Vondy]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Other thought:

 

I've learned gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. In order to understand a game, to really grasp how rules work not just philosophically, but practically, you have to just sit down and PLAY THE F'ING GAME.

 

Without experience there is no knowledge, only theory.

 

Play the expletive game, indeed.

 

Blunt, but eloquent.

 

Repped.

[Sean Waters]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

Wasn't someone going to write the definitive simple guide to adding damage for us poor dim ones?

 

I think I get it but then again, I keep finding confusing bits that seem to contradict.

 

The way it used to work, if memory serves, was you take the base attack, which would be the one with the advantage (heaven help us if you are trying to add two powers or characteristics with DIFFERENT advantages) then you pro-rate the addition based on the advantage, so if you COULD add 6 DCs to a +1/2 advantaged attack then you add 4 and the advantage carries, similarly a +1 advantaged attack would get three levels added, and it didn't matter whether the adds were coming from martial arts, weapons, strength or whatever.

 

Took a tiny bit of working out on the fly, but frankly better that than having to look it up to check your intuition every time.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

The Half-Giant has... what, 30 STR or 35 STR fully grown using his Psionic Growth ability? He also has a Martial Strike for +4d6. He generally rolls 11d6 damage.

 

For the boss battle tonight he had a Knuckle Bomb - a mecha piece of weaponry that has four shaped charges set into the casing, which detonate against (and outwards) on the target, dealing 4d6 HKA.

 

He dealt damage for them separately - or so I ruled it, since the HKA can't "stack" with the Martial Strike, but because it's a gauntlet, that's the correct delivery system. Right?

[ghost-angel]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

No, you can perform a Martial Strike with an HKA. But the damage tops out at twice the HKA Damage.

 

Now you can rule that you can't increase the damage of an explosive with a punch; but that's outside the base rules of the mechanics. Or better modeled as "STR Does Not Add"

[pinecone]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

The Half-Giant has... what, 30 STR or 35 STR fully grown using his Psionic Growth ability? He also has a Martial Strike for +4d6. He generally rolls 11d6 damage.

 

For the boss battle tonight he had a Knuckle Bomb - a mecha piece of weaponry that has four shaped charges set into the casing, which detonate against (and outwards) on the target, dealing 4d6 HKA.

 

He dealt damage for them separately - or so I ruled it, since the HKA can't "stack" with the Martial Strike, but because it's a gauntlet, that's the correct delivery system. Right?

 

The answer is....Yes and no...

Yes because the GM said so, and no for people that obsess over such things...

[Wile_e01]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

I would have to agree with the decision you made. it seemed right.

[ghost-angel]

Re: I finished reading 5th Edition, Revised

 

A "Rules Legal" construction would probably look a bit like such:

 

Knuckle Duster

Metal Fist +xD6 Hand Attack, OIF:Gauntlet plus Knuckle Charge xD6 HKA, Str Does Not Add To Damage, OIF:Gauntlet, Linked:Metal Fist, 4 Charges (1 per knuckle)

 

Now you can punch someone, and at your option release an explosive charge into them.