New guy here, wondering about hero system

[Sargon]

Hello,

 

I am curious about the hero system.

I have heard hero system describe in details aspects of gaming that no other system does. Such as injuries in combat, what would it mean if a character broke a finger? and etc.

Is the system suitable for creating realistic characters and game world?

Lets say I would like to create a normal middle ages knight, that would be like a knight from our history. no super powers, no special abilities, just a normal human being trained in martial arts.

So does the system target for special or super heroes like in comic books? Or is it very much suitable for, lets say, historical world game?

 

Thank you.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

Hello' date='[/quote']

 

HI! I am THE Lord Captain Thia Halmades, and I'll be answering your questions this morning to the best of my ability! Please be advised: because this is the HERO System, there are many different ways to answer the same question in some cases; below are simply mine.

 

I am curious about the hero system.

 

The HERO System. You've got questions. That's... understandable.

 

I have heard hero system describe in details aspects of gaming that no other system does. Such as injuries in combat' date=' what would it mean if a character broke a finger? and etc.[/quote']

 

Well, this is HERO, and what I mean by that, simply, is that we can model just about anything we want. Two of the core concepts that drive HERO: Reason from Effect, and second, just because you CAN model it, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. You can model minutia down to broken bones, or you can "zoom out" and simply assign a penalty, and make 'broken finger' a special effect.

 

Thank you, you've just given me my next article, by the way. Before I launch into that, though, point here is that yes, we can model anything we like, but what is built into the HERO system is the idea of special effects. For example, we can build many different types of grenades on the same basic template, but by changing one minor element of the build (another part of this rather lengthy discussion) we can easily change what we built into something else. Or, two people can buy the same core power - a slashing attack, say - one of them has a sword, the other has a "telekinetic slash" that they use at close range - these are changes in special effects which we then modify in the build as necessary.

 

Is the system suitable for creating realistic characters and game world?

 

That depends on what you mean by "realistic." HERO is built to simulate Dramatic Action. The core design of the system exists to recreate great moments where people are swinging swords madly, gunfire is going off all over the place, a grenade goes off too close and the heroes are stunned by the blast and woozy - only to recover and keep on fighting.

 

You can build what we call Heroic Level Characters, which are built on fewer points and may only have some core skills and a few special talents (called Super Skills most of the time) to define who they are. You can build super heroes. The system gets as complex or as simple as you want it to be, and it's capable of doing either very well. That's really it's core strength.

 

Lets say I would like to create a normal middle ages knight' date=' that would be like a knight from our history. no super powers, no special abilities, just a normal human being trained in martial arts.[/quote']

 

I could shill here for a moment on which books to buy for that, but the short answer is Yes, you can do that in this game. You can build a Knight, and through the HERO system decide how complex you want that design to be. In HERO he can pay points for: his Mount, his Privileges as a member of the nobility, purchase his Martial Arts package, any Contacts he has within the nobility or his own unit, and so on. You can opt to pay for almost none of that stuff and simply "hand wave" it after the character is built - you can go to either extreme, but the answer is absolutely yes.

 

So does the system target for special or super heroes like in comic books? Or is it very much suitable for' date=' lets say, historical world game?[/quote']

 

Again, it can do either. The big thing that you'll find playing HERO is that the concept of Dramatic Action drives everything; if you want people to die more easily, there are rules to increase lethality (and you can start a thread here about that, if you're so inclined). The game started off as a Super Heroic genre simulator and has since evolved into what it is today -- a dramatic action simulator that many people use to build totally different things.

 

I run both a medieval fantasy/gritty realistic/low magic campaign and a somewhat over-the-top sci-fi campaign. Originally I didn't like the over-the-topness but I found HERO does it just as well as gritty realism. So I'm good with that.

 

Thank you.

 

You're quite welcome, and welcome to the HERO boards! This is the HERO System Discussion forum; you may also want to check out (if you haven't yet) the Fantasy HERO forum. The little green bar in the upper right below your name is REP POWER. I have "repped you" for being new; I rep all new people. If you click "user CP" in the upper left hand corner in the blue tool bar, it will show you how much REP you have earned. To give someone REP, click the scales on the post (see upper right hand corner of the post frame).

 

Your REP doesn't count (or show on your name) until you have fifty non Non Gaming Discussion posts (aka, the NGD). The boards here are some of the best, if not the best on the web. Most of these cats are intellectuals, and they've been playing HERO games from anywhere from new guy (such as you or me; I've only been playing about a year) and old guy (from the original back in 1983 or so). So there'll always be a wide variety of opinions and knowledge to draw on. Most of us also have a specialty - mine is gritty action/drama -- Killer Shrike (you can do a google search for him) has an entire web site dedicated to Fantasy HERO, and Curufea (do a board search for him) has built a Wiki, and there's a link to it in his posts.

 

We all also have tons of fan support and pet projects, so odds are, someone in here has exactly what you need.

 

Again, welcome to the boards!

 

And beware the NGD. They bite.

[CraterMaker]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

Dang...

 

....What she said!

 

-CraterMaker

 

P.S. Welcome to the boards!

[McCoy]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

And beware the NGD. They bite.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

[gojira]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

Hello,

I am curious about the hero system.

 

Welcome Valkyrie... er, Sargon!

 

Thia covered it pretty well. My shorter summary is:

1. HERO does cinematic better than realistic. You can dial up the realism to a degree, but something as small as "I broke a finger" would have to be ad libbed by the GM.

 

2. HERO could do a pretty good job of simulating either historic knights, or a knight in the modern world. There's a HERO supplement,

The Ultimate Martial Artist,

that covers western martial arts as well eastern kung fu. It has a lot of very good fencing maneuvers, and I think some knightly fighting styles too.

 

3. I've never tried a pure historical world personally, but the modern supplement

Dark Champions

is well regarded. I don't know if there are any supplements for the Middle Ages for HERO, so you might have some work cut out for you designing the campaign world.

 

Good luck and I hope you stick around!

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

[hijack]

Your REP doesn't count (or show on your name) until you have fifty non Non Gaming Discussion posts (aka' date=' the NGD).[/quote']

 

I thought it was the other way around?

[/hijack]

 

Welcome, Sargon.

[SSgt Baloo]

Whoa, wait just a minute! Did I see that right?

 

[hijack]

...fifty non Non Gaming Discussion posts...

 

Huh?!? Is that a typo? What are you saying?

[/hijack]

[McCoy]

Re: Whoa, wait just a minute! Did I see that right?

 

[hijack]

 

 

Huh?!? Is that a typo? What are you saying?

[/hijack]

No, no typo. 50 post, and post in Non Gaming Discussion don't count.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Whoa, wait just a minute! Did I see that right?

 

[Hijack, s'more]

No' date=' no typo. 50 post, and post in Non Gaming Discussion don't count.[/quote']

 

Thanks! That's the way I understood it, but the above phrasing threw me. I wasn't sure if things worked the way I thought they did.

 

Once more, thanks!

[/Hijack]

[McCoy]

Re: Whoa, wait just a minute! Did I see that right?

 

[Hijack' date= s'more]

 

 

Thanks! That's the way I understood it, but the above phrasing threw me. I wasn't sure if things worked the way I thought they did.

 

Once more, thanks!

[/Hijack]

You're welcome, he said, shamelessly padding his non NGD count.

[Starwolf]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

The Fantasy Hero supplement assumes a more traditional Sword & Sorcery campaign, but gives great detail on campaigning in a "magic free" realistic medieval campaign. It includes packages for Knights, martial arts appropriate to the genre, and discusses culture, economics, politics, etc.

 

The core book "Hero System 5th edition revised" or 5ER, contains rules for stunning, being rendered unconscious, bleeding, impairing (long term but temporary damage like the afore mentioned broken finger), and disabling (long term and more or less permanent effects like having the hand chopped off). All of these rules excpet stunning and unconsciousness are optional.

 

I think the greatest advantage Hero has over say D&D, is that while armor protects you (reduces damage) it actually has the effect of making you slightly easier to hit due to encumbrance, so like in real life in Hero you can actually have 2 different defense vectors. You can be armored and take it on the chin hoping that the armor stops the bulk of the damage, or you can rely on your dexterity and speed hoping to dodge most of the incoming attacks.

[Robyn]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

So does the system target for special or super heroes like in comic books?

 

No.

 

The system targets "generic toolkit".

 

Its terminology is drawn from superhero gaming, but don't be fooled; if a word confuses you, just substitute a nonsense word like "smergle" for "Block" (or whatever it is that brought you confusion) and look at what the rule does, not what it is called.

 

There is more support for superhero gaming because this is what most people like to play (characters more powerful than we are), but this isn't part of the system. Templates for how to organize the system, and entire books published for various genres; if you don't want to play them, don't worry about buying them.

[gojira]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

The Fantasy Hero supplement assumes a more traditional Sword & Sorcery campaign' date=' but gives great detail on campaigning in a "magic free" realistic medieval campaign. It includes packages for Knights, martial arts appropriate to the genre, and discusses culture, economics, politics, etc.[/quote']

 

Hey, this is good info. I don't own Fantasy Hero so I didn't know there was information on a more realistic campaign. Thanks!

[Sargon]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

What about HP? HERO is HP based?

I prefer a system with injury survelliance instead of HP.

Actually, I look for the most realistic and details system I can find. Without caring about how cumbersome it might be.

[Spence]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

Hello,

 

I am curious about the hero system.

I have heard hero system describe in details aspects of gaming that no other system does. Such as injuries in combat, what would it mean if a character broke a finger? and etc.

Is the system suitable for creating realistic characters and game world?

Lets say I would like to create a normal middle ages knight, that would be like a knight from our history. no super powers, no special abilities, just a normal human being trained in martial arts.

So does the system target for special or super heroes like in comic books? Or is it very much suitable for, lets say, historical world game?

 

Thank you.

 

Hello and welcome.

 

Most of your questions have been answered, but I thought I throw in my .02 cents.

 

First off Hero System may have started as a Superhero game but it has evolved into what is arguably the best "generic" system ever made. I say "arguably" because opinions are a varied as there are people. But for myself I have never found a better one.

 

As Thia Halmades mentioned the game revolves around "Reason from Effect" rather than plugging in a rule. This is the hardest concept. The idea of "Special Effects" can also be difficult to follow for someone that has only played class/level games that seem to hold 90+% of the RPG market.

 

The method I use is to write out the character concept and then go back and do the build. The main reason is the rule system is so flexible there are dozens of way to achieve anything you think of. An example of this is the power effect energy blast. For 5 pts you get 1D6 of normal damage. What kind of damage? I can make it fire, ice, rubber bullet, and so on. By selecting the SFX (fire ice etc) I also determine its other effects. An Ice bolt striking a gas can has an entirely different result than say a fire bolt. But the point to all this is you can model virtually anything.

 

I lean more toward flashy heroic games rather than gritty real world simulation, but I have played in a game that was a real world medieval game and Hero was able to to do it very well. We went back to a more heroic setting because realistic heroes tend to die a bit quickly .

 

I would recommend picking up a copy of Sidekick to take a look at. I have a few copies to hand out to players. Sidekick is a no frills condensed version of the game. But it will give you a good feel of the game.

 

There is a genre book called Fantasy Hero I would recommend. While it is mostly aimed at a more heroic game it does have a lot of good info for a realistic game. Its sections on armor, weapons and combat are especially good. It also has very good chapters on world design.

 

All in all I believe once you play/run Hero a couple of times you will have a difficult time putting the straight jacket back on

 

I do still enjoy other game systems, but I always come back to Hero, especially when I GM.

 

I apologize if I sound like a Herophile, But I guess I am one

 

Browse the forums and you will find a very wide variety of experience and game knowledge. But be warned! With the flexibility of the system, be prepared for at least a half a dozen correct answers for every question.

 

The regular forums are great and very civil. But when entering the NGD be sure to put on your asbestos underwear

[Spence]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

What about HP? HERO is HP based?

I prefer a system with injury survelliance instead of HP.

Actually, I look for the most realistic and details system I can find. Without caring about how cumbersome it might be.

 

Instead of Hit Points, Hero uses two stats. Body and Stun. Body is reflects damage before death (blood and gut damage) and Stun is damage until knocked out.

 

Additionally you can add Wounding, Hit Location, Knockdown and Bleeding.

 

Also affecting combat is Endurance or the energy available to the character before becoming exhausted. This can be made more gritty by using the optional "Long term endurance" rules.

 

In Hero the ability to knock out a character and have them wake up later isn't just tacked on as an option, but a balanced and integral part of the damage system.

[MitchellS]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

Hello,

 

I am curious about the hero system.

I have heard hero system describe in details aspects of gaming that no other system does. Such as injuries in combat, what would it mean if a character broke a finger? and etc.

Is the system suitable for creating realistic characters and game world?

Lets say I would like to create a normal middle ages knight, that would be like a knight from our history. no super powers, no special abilities, just a normal human being trained in martial arts.

So does the system target for special or super heroes like in comic books? Or is it very much suitable for, lets say, historical world game?

 

Thank you.

If you're looking for low level gritty realism I'd suggest you check out Gurps [no one does that better than Gurps]. Hero's geared toward the cinematic. Yes you can throw in some optional rules to make it more lethal but realism isn't the systems strength. You'd need to immediately start house ruling out things like the speed characteristic to get a more realistic feel [and who wants to have to start house ruling a game it'll take you a long time to master anyway?].

[Starwolf]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

One of the nice effects of END is that if a character is not careful they can actually knock themselves out... If you use up all your END, you can use STUN in place of END, but when STUN reaches zero (either through damage or expenditure) you pass out.

 

Also while characters advance and become more powerful as the game progresses, it is not level based. You use your XP as character points to directly buy new skills, and improve stats, skills, powers, and abilities. In addition XP points can be used to buy off or reduce character disadvantages.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

What about HP? HERO is HP based?

I prefer a system with injury survelliance instead of HP.

Actually, I look for the most realistic and details system I can find. Without caring about how cumbersome it might be.

 

In the next issue of Digital HERO I go into this in detail, but the short version was covered; because the system simulates Dramatic Action, we use STUN (your ability to deal with cuts & bruises) and BODY (your ability to deal with lethal injury). This allows the system to simulate being stunned, etc., without the design of the "All or nothing" HP system.

 

Dramatic Action is far better represented by this system than an HP system.

[Dust Raven]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

Welcome, Sargon!

Hello,

 

I am curious about the hero system.

I have heard hero system describe in details aspects of gaming that no other system does. Such as injuries in combat, what would it mean if a character broke a finger? and etc.

Is the system suitable for creating realistic characters and game world?

Lets say I would like to create a normal middle ages knight, that would be like a knight from our history. no super powers, no special abilities, just a normal human being trained in martial arts.

So does the system target for special or super heroes like in comic books? Or is it very much suitable for, lets say, historical world game?

 

Thank you.

The system targets players who want to fiddle with the rules mechanics that define the characters and the environment they're run in. From the basic rules you can play anything. As for realistic, it does mean what you mean by that. The Hero Systems lends itself more toward "cinematic action", or the reality of movie magic. Heroes (and villains) can get shot or stabbed more than once and keep going unhindered and so forth. But it doesn't have to be that way if you don't want to. By adjusting what characters are allowed to spend points on, and picking the right optional rules, you can create a very realistic game (but a very short or boring one if violent).

 

What about HP? HERO is HP based?

I prefer a system with injury survelliance instead of HP.

Actually, I look for the most realistic and details system I can find. Without caring about how cumbersome it might be.

Hero uses two characteristics to determine injury and damage: STUN and BODY. Each of these are abstract though. BODY for example isn't really a measure of how much damage a character can take, but of how difficult he is to kill (though in many cases, the two are the same). STUN is how long it takes/difficult it is to knock the character unconscious. You could easily knock someone out without injuring them, injure them without knocking them out, and even leave them laying in a pool of their own blood, their life slipping away, while they remain conscious. It's a neat setup.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

What about HP? HERO is HP based?

I prefer a system with injury survelliance instead of HP.

Actually, I look for the most realistic and details system I can find. Without caring about how cumbersome it might be.

 

Hero doesn't use hit points per se, but does still use an abstract damage delivery system.

 

Characters have STUN (run out and yo're unconscious) and BODY (run out and you're dying, dead when damage = 2x BODY stat).

 

There are numerous optional rules for hit locations,and impairing and disabling levels of damage, for greater detail at the cost of increased complexity.

[Spence]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

You will also notice a wide variety of what Hero "can do well". Some believe that Hero doesn't work well in a non-cinematic gritty real world setting. Or that you need to modify the system if you do. I have played many real world gritty games, mostly modern crime/spy types. And have found that the phased speed system actually works well. At least no worse than a turn based initiative one.

 

As a general rule though, I prefer a little more cinema in a game. Less lethal to the cast.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: New guy here, wondering about hero system

 

Dang...

 

....What she said!

 

-CraterMaker

 

P.S. Welcome to the boards!

 

Psst. She's a MAN, baby. I know the name come off as gender neutral at times, no harm, no foul. Just wanted to point it out.