johnflang Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 My fantasy hero character has a regen which heals body. He would also like to heal one stun every time he heals a body. How would you do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Since regeneration occurs per Turn the character is getting their normal recovery along with the body. To simulate additional recovery with regeneration as an SFX you could purchase: + X Recovery. Linked to Regeneration (-1/2). Post 12 Recovery Only (-1). Another way to do this is just to buy the recovery up and say its part of the Regen SFX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Regeneration for STUN would be really groovy if you were in GM Discretionland and not getting your regular post-12 Recovery. Do it something like this: +25 STUN, Uncontrolled, Trigger: When Loses STUN, Gradual Effect: 5 Minutes, Only To Starting Value. Yeah, it's a bit wonky, but what it amounts to is that when you lose STUN, you regain 1 per Turn for either 25 Turns (5 Minutes) or until you get back to full STUN. Alternately, you could convince your GM to let Regeneration work on STUN (or Simplified) Healing as well as BODY; you might need to buy it twice. Another alternately: Buy something like +50 STUN, Only Vs. Reaching -20 STUN. With this, to put your Recovery below once per Turn, you'd need to be below -70 STUN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 This is a dangerous path to tread. Especially if you are buying a way to regen stun when you are in GM discr land. Some plots just require that the PCs go down from time to time. If your PC never does then the GM can never use those plots or the bad guys will be forced to just kill the PC. I had a player with a power similar to this, and Aid to Stun that was triggered when he went unconscious. It was ugly. Hmm. Where was that thread about powers that should never have been approved......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnflang Posted July 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Some further information that I should have posted orginally. I bought the power as a spell that I cast on people. Also we do not use GM discretion, we use the time chart to see when a recovery occurs. As a result you can be put into a coma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Regen is just a form of Healing. By default, it is set at 'fixed effect - one BODY and no STN". Can't see why that couldn't be set to 1d Healing. As someone pointed out, that means that the character will keep waking up soon in some scenarios. A captor would just tie someone up once they are out, or just kill them. I also prefer to just extend the Time Chart for unconsciousness. I also use multiples of BDY rather than a flat -10, -20, etc. So it is possible to be in the "Take 1 REC every month" category. In that case, the characters can always go to the local Scientific Genius or Wizard for the old STN Aid Machine/Spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by Jhamin This is a dangerous path to tread. Especially if you are buying a way to regen stun when you are in GM discr land. This is actually why I suggested recovery based on post-12 as opposed to aid. If the character doesn't get a post 12 they don't get the extra recovery, though it would be logical for them to get it at whatever increment they were at. It keeps GM discretion in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I had a character that had the Regen Stun. It was only one stun per turn. It never came up as a plot complication. If she was in GM LA-LA land, she was generally so far out, that it would still be probable the villians could keep her out. However, she always woke up before anyone else. If the GM thinks it might be a problem, just slap on a -0 lim that says it doesn't work when it upsets the plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by lemming If the GM thinks it might be a problem, just slap on a -0 lim that says it doesn't work when it upsets the plot. Don't most powers come with that by default? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Well the FReD describes regeneration as being priced in the following way. First, apply the standard effect rule to healing body. Second, the advantages Reduced END (0 END, +1/2), Persistent (+1/2). Third, use the limitations Self Only (-1/2), and Extra Time (1 Turn, -1). You can keep almost all of that but and have the power function identically to regeneration, except apply the standard effect to stun healing. I think the result of all this is that power would be legal and always heal 3 Stun a turn. If you want to heal less than 3 stun a turn or some other amount not divisible by 3, then you could buy 1/3 of a die for 3 char points (1 stun per turn w/ standard effect) or 2/3 for 7 char points. Buying up linked recovery is way cheaper though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by Snarf You can keep almost all of that but and have the power function identically to regeneration, except apply the standard effect to stun healing. I think the result of all this is that power would be legal and always heal 3 Stun a turn. Steve has several times said that this is not legal. However, Steve is not running your game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by archer Steve has several times said that this is not legal. However, Steve is not running your game. Ah, just buy it the other, cheaper way then. Mutant Healing Factor or Whatever!: 3d6 Healing (regeneration, 3 BODY per turn), (AP 30). plus 3 REC, (AP 6), Linked (-1/2), (RC 4). Total Cost: 34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 I had a player ask for this just last week, and I told him the game mechanics were simple, but I wouldn't allow it in the campaign. He said he just wanted a way back in the fight whenever he was knocked below -10 STUN (i.e., never knocked out). Everyone around the table joined in explaining that it's not 'in genre' for superheroes to die, but they all get KO'd from time to time. And yeah, this player gets KO'd more than most. He's got a combat monster of a character and he still can't keep him conscious. Another guy has only just reached the point where he stays standing (EB/TK in a multipower on top of SPD 6 and STR 50/CON 38 and 22 persistent defence; in other hands he'd be a campaign breaker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 It kind of bugs me that regular Healing can only be done once per day per character, but Regen magically bypasses this limitation. Furthermore, I think Regen is underpriced anyway. So the solution was simple: HOUSE RULE: Healing has a default 'Reset Time' of once per day. This can be improved one step on the Time Chart per +1/4 Advantage. Therefore, Regeneration must be bought with the appropriate level of this Advantage, otherwise it works at the lower of the two time rates. For instance, Regen of 1 BODY per Turn. 1 Turn is six steps up on the Time Chart. So this construct must take an additional +1 1/2 Advantage. This works Regen out to be 13 points. A little higher than it was in 4E instead of a little lower. Since the style of superhero gaming has seemed to shift toward more lethality in the last two decades, Regen SHOULD be more valuable. This also makes the "slow Regen" packages suddenly attractive. With the official rules, defining your Regen as say, 1 point per hour is difficult, since it saves only a couple of points. However, under my scheme, you get an increased Limitation for Extra Time, AND you get to decrease the "Reset Time" Advantage. For example, Regen of 1 per hour works out to 6 points, much better at reflecting the difference in utility between the two time scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 4thEd Regeneration cost 10 pts / level, and restored 1 BODY per turn pretty much regardless of the state of the character. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't FRED Healing require all sorts of advantages along with the Regeneration adder to achieve the same effect? 0 END, Persistent, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher 4thEd Regeneration cost 10 pts / level, and restored 1 BODY per turn pretty much regardless of the state of the character. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't FRED Healing require all sorts of advantages along with the Regeneration adder to achieve the same effect? 0 END, Persistent, etc? Yep, the cost and the effect are the same, but the fred version is constructed out of another power (a hack) instead of being its own power. The adders (lost limbs/organs, and ressurection) are actually from the attempt to usurp hero that shalt not be named, but were good ideas. The regeneration change is one of my pet peeves with Fred. Essentially we devolved. Instread of coding with C# I'm forced to use plain old C. Instead of saying "use system" and coding from there I have to tell it what the system is, what the runtime properties are, what the.... Its a nuisance IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 You can always just House-rule it that Regen is its own power, just like in 4th Ed. This way, the fact that it "ignores" Healing rules is irrelevant because it isn't Healing. I did this for a while, then I went to the 5th Ed structure simply for uniformity. 5th Ed cost is also cheaper, 8 pts rather than 10, but the Active Point Cost is 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 It's 8? How does that work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 IIRC 1 Body Regen is actually 7 pts after rounding. I think the printed version is errata'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 FRED Errata: Page 120 — in the bottom right, in the paragraph on Regeneration, the value for Extra Time (1 Turn) should be -1 1/4 — it was changed in the Limitations section, but not here. So: Regeneration 1 BODY / TURN, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (20 Active Points); Extra Time: 1 TURN (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2); Real Cost: 7.27 The problem I have with the new style of Regeneration is the Active Points are way out of control. Each 1 Body/Turn is 20 AP, and if Adders are also involved like Regrow Lost Limbs, the AP skyrockets. Check this out: Regeneration 2 BODY / TURN, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (40 Active Points); Extra Time: 1 TURN (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2); Real Cost: 14.5 Regeneration 3 BODY / TURN, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Extra Time: 1 TURN (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2); Real Cost: 21.8 Regeneration 4 BODY / TURN, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (80 Active Points); Extra Time: 1 TURN (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2); Real Cost: 29.09 Regeneration 5 BODY / TURN, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (100 Active Points); Extra Time: 1 TURN (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2); Real Cost: 36.36 . . . Regeneration 10 BODY / TURN, 0 END (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (200 Active Points); Extra Time: 1 TURN (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2); Real Cost: 72.72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 OK. I'll have to look at that again when I get home tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher It's 8? How does that work out? It doesn't. Me and my friggin' typos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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