The United States is a constitutional monarchy

[Whitewings]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

Err, say what?

First Continental Congress held in Philadelphia Sep 5 - Oct 26 1774

First open fighting against the British, Lexington MA Apr 19 1775

Independence declared in Continental Congress Jul 2 1776

Articles of Confederation adopted by Continental Congress Nov 15 1777

Articles of Confederation took effect Mar 1 1781

Cornwallis surrendered, effectively ending the fighting Oct 19 1781

British cabinet agreed to recognize USA independence Mar 1782

USA, Britain signed peace treaty in Paris Sep 3 1783

Delegates from Virginia, Delaware, New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania met in Annapolis, called for a constitutional convention Sep 11-14 1786

Constitutional convention starts May 25 1787, accepts Constitution Sep 17 1787

Constitution declared in effect Mar 4 1789

 

With the opening of the First Continental Congress only 3 years before the adoption of the Articles of Confederation, and the effective date of the Constitution only 11 1/2 years after that, just when is this 12 years of military junta supposed to have occurred?

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, you said the junta was after the Revolutionary War. At best, that means your 12 years start circe Oct 1781---7 1/2 years before the Constitution was declared to be in effect. Say what?

 

I got my figures wrong; my apologies, I really should have looked up a timeline. I recalled the First Continental Congress being after the Revolutionary War, and the Constitution being declared in effect approximately twelve years after that.

[Basil]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

I got my figures wrong; my apologies' date=' I really should have looked up a timeline. I recalled the First Continental Congress being after the Revolutionary War, and the Constitution being declared in effect approximately twelve years after that.[/quote']

 

It's OK, I've depended on a faulty memory myself.

[SuperPheemy]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

I prefer Emperor Benedict. Just because he becomes Emperor Bennie! Similar to the juvenile amusement I get from the current Pope. Pope Bennie! For some reason that just gives me the chuckles.

[st barbara]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

I prefer Emperor Benedict. Just because he becomes Emperor Bennie! Similar to the juvenile amusement I get from the current Pope. Pope Bennie! For some reason that just gives me the chuckles.

"Pope Bennie" ! That gave me an imediate image of "Bennie the Ball" from "Top Cat" in papal regalia !

[wylodmayer]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

Err' date=' say what?[/quote']

 

Ah... I had assumed he was giving us some kind of "alternate history" thing. That kind of worries me... I only hope that whitewings isn't American, so I don't have to fear for our schools. I mean, honestly, he can be forgiven for not knowing all the details of another country's governmental history. But seriously, tell me they do still teach about the Articles of Confederation in US History class, right? Right? Anyone? Please???

 

Also, it should be noted that whenever one is tempted to start off a historical point by saying "it's often forgotten that...", it's best to double check that and make sure it's really something that people often forget rather than something people don't say because, you know, it's wrong.

[Whitewings]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

I only hope that whitewings isn't American' date=' so I don't have to fear for our schools.[/quote']

 

You needn't fear for them on my account.

[wylodmayer]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

You needn't fear for them on my account.

 

I didn't think I did. It sounded like an honest mistake from an "outside observer" to US political history.

 

Besides, no American student would use the phrase "military junta." It's sadly beyond them.

[Basil]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

"Pope Bennie" ! That gave me an imediate image of "Bennie the Ball" from "Top Cat" in papal regalia !

 

Or Bennie the Bouncer (early ELP song) in the papal tiara.

[Mark Rand]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

Just wondering, in a British-style Constitutional Monarchy, is impeachment possible?

["V"]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

Just wondering' date=' in a British-style Constitutional Monarchy, is impeachment possible?[/quote']

 

For the monarch or for a government minister?

[telemachus]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

I know I'm coming in late on this, but there's a bit of mostly forgotten US history than can be exploited here and that's the fact that there were a number of US Presidents in office before Washington.

 

There were 11 "Presidents of the United States in Congress Assembled", with Washington being the last in that line, but the first under the newly ratified US Constitution.

 

So, that's ten chances to screw around with US history even before Washington held office and the guy who held office previous to him even had a nice villain-y sounding name- Cyrus Griffin.

 

Probably way too late with this; just thought it was something worth mulling over.

[Mark Rand]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

For the monarch or for a government minister?

 

Either a minister or a member of Parliment.

["V"]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

Either a minister or a member of Parliment.

 

Yep

 

From Sticky-Wiki

 

In the United Kingdom, the House of Commons technically (though never tested) holds the power of initiating an impeachment. Any member may make accusations of high treason or high crimes and misdemeanors. The member must support the charges with evidence and move for impeachment. If the Commons carries the motion, the mover receives orders to go to the bar at the House of Lords and to impeach the accused "in the name of the House of Commons, and all the commons of the United Kingdom."

 

The House of Lords hears the case, with the Lord Chancellor presiding (or the Lord High Steward if the impeachment relates to a peer accused of high treason). The hearing resembles an ordinary trial: both sides may call witnesses and present evidence. At the end of the hearing the Lord , and after all have voted, proceeds to deal with any remaining articles similarly. Upon being called, a Lord must rise and declare upon his honour, "Guilty" or "Not Guilty". After voting on all of the articles has taken place, and if the Lords find the defendant guilty, the Commons may move for judgment; the Lords may not declare the punishment until the Commons have so moved. The Lords may then provide whatever punishment they find fit, within the law. A Royal Pardon cannot excuse the defendant from trial, but a Pardon may reprieve a convicted defendant.

 

In April 1996 the Young Liberals' annual conference unanimously passed a motion to call on the Liberal leader (David Steel) to move for the impeachment of Ronald King Murray QC, the Lord Advocate. Mr. Steel did not call the motion but Murray (now Lord Murray, a former Senator of the College of Justice of Scotland) agrees that the Commons still have the right to initiate an impeachment motion. On 25 August 2004, Plaid Cymru MP Adam Price announced his intention to move for the impeachment of Tony Blair for his role in involving Britain in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. In response Peter Hain, the Commons Leader, insisted that impeachment was obsolete, given modern government's responsibility to parliament. Ironically, Peter Hain had served as president of the Young Liberals when they called for the impeachment of Mr. Murray in 1977.

 

In 2006, General Sir Michael Rose revived the call for the impeachment of the United Kingdom's Prime Minister, Tony Blair, for leading the country into the invasion of Iraq in 2003 under false pretenses.

[Mark Rand]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

Yep

 

From Sticky-Wiki

 

Thanks for the information.

[sinanju]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

As an alternative: Make the colonies a constitutional monarchy without a revolutionary war.

 

Consider this scenario: Charles the First fights the English Civil War, and as in our timeline, loses. However, he flees from the victorious Roundheads by ship, taking what's left of the treasury and his army to the British colonies in the New World.

 

Once there, he finds he does not have the force to command the colonials to obedience. However, wily colonial leaders see this as a great chance. They make a proposal to the near-broken King: Form a new government here. Make us your new Dukes and Barons. We won't support an absolute monarch, but we've drawn up an agreement we can both live with. Sign it, and we can be your loyal subjects, and you will be King again

 

Now, Charles the First was a believer in the divine right of Kings, and not a very good general, but he wasn't entirely stupid. He might well accept such a proposal, figuring he can always renege later.

 

Unfortunately, he doesn't get the chance. Once Cromwell has the country under his thumb, he sends an expeditionary force to retrieve Charles and restore the colonies to English rule.

 

The expedition fails, but Charles the First, Emperor of the Americas, is killed in the fighting.

 

Charles II steps up. Without the years of debauchery and bad influence he got on the continent in our timeline, he proves to be an amiable, not too smart Emperor. The Congress of Assembled Nobles does most of the ruling.

 

The American Empire stretches it's way across the continent. New France proves an occasionally fractious neighbour to the North, but things eventually settle down. The French Monarchy and the American Monarchy intermarry, and Republican Britain becomes a small, resentful bit player in world politics.

 

I just want to say that I like this approach very much. Cool--and repped!

[Mark Rand]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

What I'll probably do is Prime Minister Dubya loose a confidence vote by a huge margin in March of the year the campaign starts. The opposition party elects a Josiah Edward "Jed" Bartlet-like man as Prime Minister. He has a Ph.D. in economics, was an economics professor before entering politics, has a wife that's a trauma surgeon, and three daughters. Additionally, he suffers from relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis.

 

The eldest daughter is married and lives in the family's home state. The middle daughter recently received her M.D. and is currently an intern at Johns Hopkins. The youngest daughter is married, and trains the big cats at a circus. (Her husband plays the Sousaphone in the circus band.)

 

The Deputy Prime Minister chosen at that time, who smokes a pipe, is a quiet man with a loving wife of Hispanic decent. Their adopted daughter, who lives in the campaign city, attends high school, is a Buffy-style Slayer and a Highlander-style Immortal.

[Mark Rand]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

A probable change to the above post is that Mrs. Hoynes, who is of Jamacian decent, is an eye surgeon with her own practice.

 

Their daughter, who is in the ninth grade, lives with her parents, a physician and nurse practitioner, who are the medical team for the superhero team the PCs are on.

[Funksaw]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

But if a different kind of man had followed Washington in rulership, matters might have turned out differently. In many ways the President is equivalent to an "elected king" with constitutionally-proscribed powers.

 

Look at how Julius Caesar gained power as "imperator." The title and powers were conferred by the Roman Senate, supposedly for a limited term at first. Later Emperors chose their own successors, but had the Senate "rubber stamp" their choice for the sake of appearance and tradition. Let an early American President have the popularity to hold office for life, and start a dynasty, and you'd have a de facto monarchy.

 

Dude, the guy who followed Washington in rulership was John Adams, and he's the guy everyone compares Bush to when they ask "who was the worst president ever?"

[Sundog]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

Dude' date=' the guy who followed Washington in rulership was John Adams, and he's the guy everyone compares Bush to when they ask "who was the worst president ever?"[/quote']

 

Er, aren't you mistaking the father for the son? John Adams, IIRC, was reasonably good. John Quincy Adams wasn't.

["V"]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

Er' date=' aren't you mistaking the father for the son? John Adams, IIRC, was reasonably good. John [i']Quincy[/i] Adams wasn't.

 

But he was a great Medical Examiner.

[Mark Rand]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

But he was a great Medical Examiner.

 

I see we hae another fan of Quincy: M.E. on these boards.

["V"]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

I see we hae another fan of Quincy: M.E. on these boards.

 

That's M.E. alright, Quincy is my second favourite television M.E. after Dr Donald "Ducky" Mallard the immortal Amberite autopsy legend from NCIS.

[Mark Rand]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

The king and his family are patrons of the arts and have often been seen at the Kennedy Center.

[Mark Rand]

Re: The United States is a constitutional monarchy

 

After the spoksman for the Minister for Transport announced that the states had to permit right-turn-on-red to receive federal highway money, a spokesman for the king arrounced that His Majesty did not approve of the decision.

 

While members of the National Safety Council agreed with His Majesty, the transportation ministry didn't.