Universal Analyst

[BobGreenwade]

I'm trying, using The Ultimate Skill as a guide, to build a sort of Universal Analyst Talent. The idea is that, instead of separately buying Analyze Combat Technique, Analyze Computer, Analyze Fire Residue, Analyze Handwriting, Analyze Knots, Analyze Large Objects, Analyze Magic, Analyze Motive, Analyze Recipe, Analyze Rock, Analyze Skills, Analyze Soil, Analyze Style, Analyze Technology, Analyze Vehicle, Analyze Voice, and so forth, the character just has Universal Analyst and Analyze just about anything.

 

The structure would be similar to that of similar "Other Universals" as described on pages 49-50 of TUSk, but with one snag: things like True Jack Of All Trades, Universal Connections, Universal Scholar, and Universal Scientist are all based on Skills (or, in one case, a Perk) that costs 2 points for an 11- Roll, +1 point per +1 to the Roll, whereas Analyze is a 3 point Intellect Skill, +2 points per +1 to the Roll.

 

So I'm faced with multiple possibilities. The most likely solution, at least to my mind, is that the base Talent costs 20 points for an 11- Roll, +2 points per +1 to the Roll. But maybe it should be 20 points for an 8- Roll, or 30 points for an INT Roll (or maybe 20 for 11- and 30 for INT Roll, then +2 points per +1).

 

The reason I'm saying that the +1 to the roll should cost +2 points is that it's the same cost as for a standard Analyze Skill; the +1 cost for the existing Universal Talents is the same as for the Skills (or Perk) they're based on. (The same logic is what suggests 30 points for an INT Roll.)

 

Or maybe I should just get Analyze Just About Anything at a high enough roll so any penalties (based on the Knowledge Skill Category tables on pages 210-211 of TUSk) would still net a reasonable Roll.

 

PS: I'm wanting to give the character a 33- roll, so his "Half Roll" is 17-. (He's a very good analyst.) I mention this because I want it to cost enough to not be abusive, but not so much as to be outrageous.

 

PS #2: I also would like the structure to be able to fit things like Universal Animal Handler, Universal Survivor, Universal Systems Operator, etc.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

You don't consider a 33- roll outrageous?!

 

But seriously, neat idea.

The most likely solution' date=' at least to my mind, is that the base Talent costs 20 points for an 11- Roll, +2 points per +1 to the Roll. [/quote']

This seems the easiest to me. Most of the Other Universals give either 11- rolls or Char rolls for 20 points.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

You don't consider a 33- roll outrageous?!

Not if it's his main power. Which it is. (His only other major ability is a really high Find Weakness with All Attacks. Without these two he's barely a Talented Normal.)

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

PS #2: I also would like the structure to be able to fit things like Universal Animal Handler' date=' Universal Survivor, Universal Systems Operator, etc.[/quote']Grouping these in with Analyze suggests a solution. I don't have The Ultimate Skill in front of me right now, and I don't recall whether or not Analyze is presented with an optional categorized cost structure in that book. But Animal Handler, Survival, and Systems Operation all have official or optional categorized cost structures for sure. That means that, by buying enough sub-categories, you can almost arrive at a "Universal" version of them anyway.

 

With that in mind, I wonder if what you're looking to achieve could be accomplished by two means:

1. Establish a threshold of points that can be spent on buying additional categories for these Skills, and rule that once said threshold is reached, the Skill is simply considered Universal. In other words, you'd be saying "You only buy specific additional terrains and climates for Survival up to "X" points. Once you reach "X", we start handwaving, and assume you can survive in any climate or terrain." Likewise for Animal Handler and types of animals, Systems Operation and types of equipment, etc.
   
2. Turn Analyze into a categorized Skill, and apply the same rules to it. When you buy Analyze, you take it with one sub-category by default, and you can buy additional categories and sub-categories of things you can analyze, up to a max of "X" points, beyond which it's assumed you can Analyze anything.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

I'd be concerned that here is a charcter who would be getting too much limelight BUT, as to costs, well why not multiply the BASE cost of a UNIVERSAL by 1.5 (as these skills cost 3 points not 2) and the cost of +1 should double (as these skills cost +2 not +1 for a 1 point improvement).

 

That's not going to be cheap for a 33- roll.

 

Quite right too, IMO.

[braincraft]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

It'd be a lot simpler just to buy some Overall Levels with an SFX.

[Sociotard]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

I'd like the Overall Levels as well. The main difference I see is that Analyze doesn't just provide bonuses to other skills, though that's the main point. It also tells you something about what you're looking at.

 

Roll well with Analyze style and you'll get a bonus fighting the guy you just analyzed. The GM will also, according to his discretion, tell you "this fighter was clearly trained by Yung Su Ma at the monastary of the Silver Tiger in Western China"

[braincraft]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

You have to admit, it would be pretty game-breaking to have better than even odds on having a database on, well, everything. If you make it one power in the way you're suggesting, you could just buy it up to 21- or something and almost always have extensive knowledge on any subject you're called upon to analyze, not to mention any bonuses to CV or skill rolls.

 

If you need to have more than 10 Analyze skills, you should think about how game-breaking your character might be.

 

The simple way is to just have a VPP that you can fill with whatever Analyze skill you need, which needs GM permission, but I'd say that any way you buy this power would.

[Reality Czech]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

I'm just curious, but what is the justification you're using to explain how observant, intuitive, and knowledgeable this fellow is? I think it's a really interesting power concept (But then again I work as an analyst for the government and love it, which in my experience differentiates me from 90-95% of all people who try my job)

 

I'm not saying "There's no way he could analyze all of that"... I can think of at least 3 ways right now. I'm just asking how you see him doing it

[Sean Waters]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

I'm just curious' date=' but what is the justification you're using to explain how observant, intuitive, and knowledgeable this fellow is? I think it's a [b']really[/b] interesting power concept (But then again I work as an analyst for the government and love it, which in my experience differentiates me from 90-95% of all people who try my job)

 

I'm not saying "There's no way he could analyze all of that"... I can think of at least 3 ways right now. I'm just asking how you see him doing it

 

Well, Sherlock....

 

Can I just say that whether a power of this sort is acceptable in a game or not depends on the overall build of the character and possibly of the whole team, coupled with the GM's vision of the world they play in, and a number of other factors too.

 

The power SOUNDS horribly abuseable, but that doesn't mean it will be or that it will be a problem in fact.

 

As a (mainly) GM my biggest misgiving is that I'm going to constantly be asked to give information about subjects I know little about, and that it will be an awful lot of work for me.

 

This sort of character, one with extensive knowledge or applied intelligence, is really difficult to run and GM in my experience, because they would know so much more than the average character, and understand so much more of what is going on. Great character for a line of detctive novels, but hard to make it work as envisaged in-game. Unless it is a GM character, and the GM is happy enough to cheat.

[Reality Czech]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

....

This sort of character, one with extensive knowledge or applied intelligence, is really difficult to run and GM in my experience, because they would know so much more than the average character, and understand so much more of what is going on...

 

Heck, to me the hard part could be the character knows so much more than the player. Half the knowledge issues I run into aren't questions I don't know the answer to, it's the questions I was too uninformed to develop in the first place.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

I'm just curious' date=' but what is the justification you're using to explain how observant, intuitive, and knowledgeable this fellow is? I think it's a [b']really[/b] interesting power concept (But then again I work as an analyst for the government and love it, which in my experience differentiates me from 90-95% of all people who try my job)

 

I'm not saying "There's no way he could analyze all of that"... I can think of at least 3 ways right now. I'm just asking how you see him doing it

Essentially the concept is a superhuman level of perception and ability to understand what he's looking at. Combine all of the perceptive and analytical abilities of Sherlock Holmes, Adrian Monk, Angela Hansen, Remo Williams, Hoshi Sato, Shawn Spencer, Samantha Waters, Prudence "Bones" Brennan, and Flynn Carsen, and you're pretty close to this guy.

 

And BTW, getting +2 Overall Levels with RSR might be a good way to save a few points. (Under the proposed 20 point base cost for 11- and +2 points per +1, a 33- roll would cost 64 points. If I make it a 21- roll and get the +2 Levels with RSR, that's 40 + 16 = 56 points, for a savings of 8 points and I still get the same basic information.)

 

Also I think I'd rule that Universal Analyst would not grant the user any information that might need a Knowledge Skill. He might be able to tell that the fighter he's looking at concentrates his attacks on the center line and probably trained under a highly disciplined master, but without the appropriate Knowledge Skill he wouldn't be able to tell that he uses Resplendant Dragon Kung Fu and trained under Master Chang Ho. (On the other hand, he might be able to tell that the fighter has a lower than average center of gravity, suffers from slight astigmatism in his right eye, had surgery early last year for a ruptured spleen, and studied jazz dance in college.)

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

I'm thinking I wouldn't allow this. I see "Game Breaker" written all over it; having every Analyze skill in the book just seems like way, way too much. I would be more inclined to allow multiple Analyze Skills to be bought in "groups," and then in turn have an additional pool of "+1 to Analyze/3 pts" skill levels. That would make far MORE sense to me, personally.

[Reality Czech]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

I've often wished for real-time access to the internet in my head to allow for a greater depth of understanding and knowledge through the HUGE pool of reference material this would provide...

 

But then I think about popup ads while driving and think better of it.

 

Really neat concept... have you perchance read Frank Herbert's Dune? The observation of minutiae and indictive reasoning training the Bene Gesserit (sp?) is along these lines.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

Really neat concept... have you perchance read Frank Herbert's Dune? The observation of minutiae and indictive reasoning training the Bene Gesserit (sp?) is along these lines.

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten to include that on the above list. I came up with this concept before I read the book, but the principles are extremely close.

[Reality Czech]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

Ah' date=' yes, I'd forgotten to include that on the above list. I came up with this concept before I read the book, but the principles are extremely close.[/quote']

If I sounded like I was saying "That idea was in Dune; how about something original next time" I appologize, that's not where I was coming from.

I'm only bringing it up because it popped into my head; not suggesting your idea is less interesting for having been done. I've had plenty of ideas that I later found had been explored ad naseum before it ever occured to me, it didn't reduce the pique for me just because I wasn't the first one to think of it

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

If I sounded like I was saying "That idea was in Dune; how about something original next time" I appologize' date=' that's not where I was coming from.[/quote']I read no such implication in your post; not even close. It actually was an illustration to me that you understood what I was going after.

 

Especially appropriate to the Bene Gesserit, regarding this character, is the ability to read someone's attitudes about something by listening to their voice, and the subtle variations therein, when they speak of it. It's even something I've learned to do a bit of myself (though not nearly as well as either the Bene Gesserit or the character I'm trying to build).

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

You have to admit, it would be pretty game-breaking to have better than even odds on having a database on, well, everything. If you make it one power in the way you're suggesting, you could just buy it up to 21- or something and almost always have extensive knowledge on any subject you're called upon to analyze, not to mention any bonuses to CV or skill rolls.

 

If you need to have more than 10 Analyze skills, you should think about how game-breaking your character might be.

 

The simple way is to just have a VPP that you can fill with whatever Analyze skill you need, which needs GM permission, but I'd say that any way you buy this power would.

 

Well, Sherlock....

 

Can I just say that whether a power of this sort is acceptable in a game or not depends on the overall build of the character and possibly of the whole team, coupled with the GM's vision of the world they play in, and a number of other factors too.

 

The power SOUNDS horribly abuseable, but that doesn't mean it will be or that it will be a problem in fact.

 

As a (mainly) GM my biggest misgiving is that I'm going to constantly be asked to give information about subjects I know little about, and that it will be an awful lot of work for me.

 

This sort of character, one with extensive knowledge or applied intelligence, is really difficult to run and GM in my experience, because they would know so much more than the average character, and understand so much more of what is going on. Great character for a line of detctive novels, but hard to make it work as envisaged in-game. Unless it is a GM character, and the GM is happy enough to cheat.

 

Heck' date=' to me the hard part could be the character knows so much more than the [b']player[/b]. Half the knowledge issues I run into aren't questions I don't know the answer to, it's the questions I was too uninformed to develop in the first place.

 

I'm thinking I wouldn't allow this. I see "Game Breaker" written all over it; having every Analyze skill in the book just seems like way' date=' way too much. I would be more inclined to allow multiple Analyze Skills to be bought in "groups," and then in turn have an additional pool of "+1 to Analyze/3 pts" skill levels. That would make far MORE sense to me, personally.[/quote']It took me a while to figure out... I think you folks are confusing what I'm proposing with the already-published Universal Scholar Talent (TUSk, page 49). Universal Scholar gives knowledge on everything; Universal Analyst wouldn't give any new knowledge, just let the character expertly understand whatever knowledge he already has, and can obtain through his senses.

[pinecone]

Re: Universal Analyst

 

Yeah, I don't see it as being any more terrifing then any other super ability....Makes hay out of many puzzle senarios though.....