Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

[handleyj]

So we ran across some vampires in our game this week, but we ended up having a few questions:

 

1) The Drink Blood attack is a RKA with No Range and Continuous (and 0 END). We assumed that the vampire had to get close to do the bite, but then she and the victim could get separated and the victim would continue to take damage. Is that correct? If not, why build this as a RKA instead of an HKA?

 

2) I can't really find anything in the big book that dictates when a Continuous power with 0 END would stop functioning. We assumed stunning/killing the vampires would work, so we went with that. But then the question came up: could the vampires start their Continuous attack, then turn desolid? I figured no, because the attack wasn't bought with the "while desolid" (or whatever) advantage. So I figure when they turned desolid, then the continuous attack would stop.

 

3) What else can stop a Continuous 0 END attack? Is there a rule in some book for this that you can point me to?

 

Thanks!

 

-joe

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

 

Hey, Joe,

 

I assume you're talking about the vampire writeups from the HERO System Bestiary. What you're describing certainly sounds like the way their Drink Blood power is built. Assuming that's the case:

 

1) The vampire would indeed have to get within Hand-To-Hand range to bite and initiate the attack, but after that would have to stay in HTH reach for the attack to continue to affect the target. That would probably require the vampire to successfully Grab and hold onto the target. At the GM's discretion the vampire might be able to start sucking again if he can get close and make another successful Attack Roll. Since there's no mechanical or cost difference between a RKA No Range, and HKA that adds no damage from STR, which one you use is mostly a matter of esthetics and personal preference.

 

2) I'd say you're right as to how to stop the vampire's attack. If it's the Bestiary version of Blood Sucking it doesn't have the Advantage Affects Solid World, so it should stop working if the vampire turns Desolid, unless the GM decides that there's some logical reason to make an exception to that rule.

 

3) Other than Stunning or Knocking Out the attacker, what stops a Constant attack would be whatever the GM agrees makes sense given the Special Effect of the Power. Per the default rules that includes cutting off the Line Of Sight from the attacker to the target. If the attacker doesn't have a clear Line Of Sight (due to intervening objects or Powers that block his view), he can't continue to attack.

 

Ultimately when you have to make decisions like these, you should go with whatever seems logical given the way that the Power is defined. In HERO what a power construct is called, how it looks and so on can make a difference in particular circumstances. For example, a Constant attack defined as a jet of flame should be dousable by large quantities of water, even if that's not specifically on the power's writeup.

 

I hope that helps. If it's not clear enough please feel free to post followup questions.

[RPMiller]

Re: Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

 

LL, I like the way you replied. It makes a huge point about games. Players of a system need to get out of the "rule rut" sometimes and just go with the flow. Whatever seems reasonable to the group should be all that is needed. Rep to you for the level headed reply.

[CourtFool]

Re: Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

 

I would go so far as to guess the reason it was built with Continuous was so the vampire would not have to continue to make attack rolls. I can see a bite that continues to cause damage, but I suspect this was so the vampire can roll once, grab, bite and suck for as long as needed.

[handleyj]

Re: Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

 

Thanks for the help LL (now I can't get "Goin' Back to Cali" and "Momma Said Knock You Out" out of my head).

 

I think you're right about the vamp and the victim not being able to separate. That would seem to jibe with movie vampires. So I guess the RKA thing will just annoy and anger me for the rest of my days (Why!?!? Why God, Why!?!?).

 

 

One new question: The Drink Blood power says that their Fangs power must first do 1 BODY. Is that two attacks, and thus two phases? So they have to make a successful attack roll with the Fangs (and do 1 BODY), then they also have to make a successful attack roll with the Drink Blood on their next phase? I think this would indeed go with the source material (i.e. movie vampires).

 

And reading the "Powers and Tactics" section more closely, I see that they would use their Mind Control before attempting the Fang/Suck combo.

 

All in all, I'm really happy with the way our GM decided to run the encounter, it was a ton of fun (especially since it wasn't me running around with blood gushing out my neck). But these were just post-session questions about the vampires in The Book. Thanks again!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

 

on a related note...

 

The rules allow an immediate squeeze attack (no additional roll required) after a successful Grab but on later phases the grabber must actually make a new attack roll vs. the grabbed target's reduced DCV before he can inflict further squeeze damage. Intuitively it seems like a Continuous attack but it's not. It's just very close.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

 

Thanks for the help LL (now I can't get "Goin' Back to Cali" and "Momma Said Knock You Out" out of my head).

 

I think you're right about the vamp and the victim not being able to separate. That would seem to jibe with movie vampires. So I guess the RKA thing will just annoy and anger me for the rest of my days (Why!?!? Why God, Why!?!?).

If you think that angers you, check out the write-ups that use HKA No STR for a Damage Shield, but it's against the rules to use RKA No Range.

 

One new question: The Drink Blood power says that their Fangs power must first do 1 BODY. Is that two attacks, and thus two phases? So they have to make a successful attack roll with the Fangs (and do 1 BODY), then they also have to make a successful attack roll with the Drink Blood on their next phase? I think this would indeed go with the source material (i.e. movie vampires).

It's one attack, and one attack roll, assuming the GM allows Multiple Power Attacks. It's just the Drink Blood would be wasted unless the Fangs do BODY (a silly requirement, since you can easily draw blood without causing BODY damage).

 

About the Continuous thing, as CourtFool says, it's probably there for the vampire doesn't need to use actions/attacks to maintain the effect, though he must still remain adjacent to the target. I would question why, since damaging someone with a Grab (by crushing) is not Constant and you must attack every Phase, but I'm thinking it's to allow the vampire to defend himself and/or use his Phases to maintain a hold of his prey (through Mind Control or force).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

 

So we ran across some vampires in our game this week, but we ended up having a few questions:

 

1) The Drink Blood attack is a RKA with No Range and Continuous (and 0 END). We assumed that the vampire had to get close to do the bite, but then she and the victim could get separated and the victim would continue to take damage. Is that correct? If not, why build this as a RKA instead of an HKA?

 

The simple answer to this one is so that you can get a limitation on the cost. You could buy it without 'no range' and replace that with a limitation 'must follow a grab to start attack' (also -1/2 usually, possibly -1/4 for a continuous attack that does not require the grab to be maintained), and you could then grab, bite (to start the attack) and then seperate, but still maintain the attack so long as you have LOS and are within range. You'd have to explain how that works though....

 

 

2) I can't really find anything in the big book that dictates when a Continuous power with 0 END would stop functioning. We assumed stunning/killing the vampires would work, so we went with that. But then the question came up: could the vampires start their Continuous attack, then turn desolid? I figured no, because the attack wasn't bought with the "while desolid" (or whatever) advantage. So I figure when they turned desolid, then the continuous attack would stop.

 

Breaking line of sight or exceeding the range of the power also work. Personally I am very wary of 0 END continuous attacks and usually require some other way they can be switched off too, even if I give that a limitation value. In this instance, perhaps the touch or presentation of a Holy Symbol (-1/2) might do the trick. Technically that should only be a limtiaiton on the 'continuous' cost, rather than the whole power. You might just want to call it -0 and have done.

 

I agree with your interpretation on desolid.

 

3) What else can stop a Continuous 0 END attack? Is there a rule in some book for this that you can point me to?

 

Thanks!

 

-joe

 

See above

[Rapier]

Re: Vampires, RKA No Range, Continuous, Desolid

 

As many things it comes down to SFX. The SFX is that the vampire is sucking someone's blood from a vein. If he steps away from the vein, unless he has fangs that are 2" long he can't continue to suck.