Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

[Dead guy on tab]

Hello,

As I get back in the swing of GMing, one of the things I thought about implementing was a way to better simulate combat scenes in comics. Oftentimes the heroes are shown facing opposition that is not much of a challenge for them. These scenes allow the heroes to demonstrate how powerful they are. Inevitably the heroes face the villain of the piece in a dramatic conflict where things don't go so easily. I am looking to simulate these effects via a "meta-game" mechanic.

 

I feel that Torg had a good mechanic to get this feel. They used scene cards that gave benefits to the heroes if it was a standard scene and to the villains if it was a dramatic scene. I am using a modified form of this. In standard scenes, the villains are given a disadvantage, while in the dramatic scenes they are not. What would be an appropriate disadvantage to apply to a villain who is normally equal to the heroes that would give the heroes a significant advantage? I've attached some scene card titles to demonstrate what the Torg cards were like. The advantages in Torg were tied to the game mechanics of the system so it is hard to translate into Hero.

 

How I use this is a follows: During a combat scene I reveal a scene card - if it is on a white background it is a standard scene - if it is on a black background it is a dramatic scene. I choose the quote to reflect the general tone of the combat. These scene cards may be changed at any time as the combat progresses, but they are intended to give the players a feel for where I as the GM would like the scene to go. In addition, the give the players clues as to when it would be appropriate to make dramatic gestures.

 

Comments and suggestions are welcome. Thanks for the assistance.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

Neat idea, and Repped.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

Well, in combat situations the two things that matter are ability to hit and ability to affect your opponent.

 

So if you normally need an 11 or less to hit you'll be doing that 62.5% of the time. A bonus to hit means you hit more often.

 

A bonus to affect could be more impactful in a game. If you hit 62.5% of the time and usually do between 38 and 46 STUN but the bad guy has 40 PD and 100 STUN then hitting a few more times a round doesn't make a huge diffference to the fight. If the average damage was shifted to between 51 and 59 per hit then you immediately make a difference.

 

 

Doc

[tesuji]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

Hmmmm. I always just handled this by building the adversaries to be very challenging, on par or to be weaker than the heroes and let nature take its course. If a villain was built with a weakness to one of the hero powers, then it was there and that was that. A weakness didn't develope to suit the scene.

 

I wonder if just telling the players up front "this is what i want to happen in this next fight..." might not be better than a card flip thingy?

 

But for benefits, several options jump immediately to mind...

 

LUCK: especially with the various ways to spend luck, giving either side some luck points or a pool of luck points is one of the simplest things.

 

DR: Also simple but a little more mathy... give one side or the other damage reduction of 255 to 50% depending on how lopsided you want the fight.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

I like the card flipping idea from the standpoint that it keeps little combat handicaps like a bonus hit from feeling arbitrary, because players hate nothing more than an arbitrary GM.

 

When I want to put the heroes at an advantage or disadvantage for the sake of drama, I usually pick a combat setting where one of the combatants has substantial benefit or handicap. Like setting the fight on the scaffolding on a high rise where one of the combatants can fly but the other can't, or giving a brick plenty of large objects on the battlefield to throw at opponents. I might also bring other circumstances into play, like the hero was badly injured in the last combat or is getting over the flu or something.

 

_______________________________________________________

"Why follow me to higher ground, lost as you swear I am?" - Ed Roland

[wylodmayer]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

Players may hate an arbitrary GM, but mechanics are mechanics. We played Torg for years, and no one ever complained about the cards, especially because they don't actually help the bad guys, just disadvantage them in non key situations. After all, the GM didn't control the cards, but, interestingly, the net effect of the cards that the players had and the slightly random factor introduced by the combat deck preserved the dramatic flavor of the game without anyone feeling like the GM was manipulating things. Cos, you know, he wasn't, really.

[Dead guy on tab]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

I am not planning on flipping the scene cards at random ala Torg - I choose the scene cards as part of planning the adventure. I am trying to clue the players into the "soundtrack" of the scene if you will. I do try to think about the type of combat setting as well. I mostly want to use the scene descriptors as a guide to the action, e.g. if the scene card says "They're on the run" - I would like my heroes to be aggressive with the villains while the villains are trying to escape. I also want the heroes to have a feel for when it is more appropriate to push their powers, etc. I don't like it when heroes push/use all the energies against a couple of mooks when the big baddie is waiting around the corner. I also figure that some villains will always be standard scene villains, some villains will always be dramatic scene villains, and some will be both depending on the context of the scene. I also like using the scene cards to reward characters for dramatically appropriate actions (ala approved actions) via hero action points. I figure by manipulating the villains abilities downward in standard scenes, the players won't feel like they are receiving a penalty; rather that in standard scnes they gain a bonus. In addition, the players don't have to adjust how their character functions only I do.

[The Monster]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

In our Champions campaign, we're actually using the Torg deck, flipping a card after segments 6 and 12, with the players having a hand of cards, straight out of Torg. Most of the direct bonuses (e.eg., "+3 to do this") can be run right into Hero; some of the other effects - flurry, "up," that kind of thing - take a little interpretation, but it seems to be working fairly well. It adds a bit of complication to the game; but the use of cards expands the options to players.

[Vondy]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

I generally model this via character design. Mooks are designed to go down in hordes, while major henchmen and master villains are designed to be a challenge - or a real pain. On the other hand, having a "dramatic combat" deck that everyone got a predetermined number of draws from (heroes and villains alike) might make combat more exciting, or at least introduce unexpected variables beyond to-hit and damage, which normally dictate the ultimate result. This could be expanded to include a situational general-area deck for GM inspiration that he draws from as the combat unfolds.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

It adds a bit of complication to the game; but the use of cards expands the options to players.

I fail to see how having a limited set of predetermined options on cards can possibly "expand the options to players." I can see where it might inspire them, but no set of cards can possibly be as flexible as good players' own imaginations.

 

As a GM (one of five) in our 15-year-old Champions campaign, I've basically given up trying to build complicated scenarios because it's become virtually impossible to predict the heroes' actions in or out of combat. I just build the villain(s), figure the basic evil plot, and write an introduction scene. After that all bets are off as I have the bad guy(s) react to the characters' actions.

[zornwil]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

Very interesting, bump-worthy indeed!

[Dead guy on tab]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

I am still working out all the details, but I tend to give out Hero Action Points (from Pulp Hero) for approved actions during the scenes. I am also working on how to lower the opposition's abilities to favor the heroes during standard scenes.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Standard vs. Dramatic scenes (Torg-inspired)

 

We use HAPs for a Star Hero and Fantasy Hero game, they are fun.

 

Mostly they're used when the GM wants us to make a choice about resources - do we need torches or will something more important come up later?