Human Maximums

[Joe]

I know there was a discussion recently on the true levels of speed and what each level represents. I thought I might take it a step further and inquire as to the other stats. What do GM's out there think are the maxes of human potential before they go into "how the hell did he do that!?!"

 

STR, DEX, CON, ETC, ETC....

 

Thanks for the opinions.

[MitchellS]

Re: Human Maximums

 

My games used to use 30 for the Primary Characteristics. PD/ED were at 18. Speed was a 7. Recovery of 15. End and stun as figured from maximums.

[Comic]

Re: Human Maximums

 

20's for Primary Characteristics. 10 for PD/ED. SPD 4. REC 10. END and Stun 50.

 

Running 10" x4 Ncbt. Swimming 5" x2 Ncbt.

 

Skills cap at 17-, including group or overall levels.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Human Maximums

 

20's for Primary Characteristics. 10 for PD/ED. SPD 4. REC 10. END and Stun 50.

 

Running 10" x4 Ncbt. Swimming 5" x2 Ncbt.

 

Skills cap at 17-, including group or overall levels.

You actually cap Skills in Champions? Why?

[OddHat]

Re: Human Maximums

 

I generally go with the "30 is the most that can still be called Human" rule for primary chars, with PD, ED and REC maxing out at 15 and SPD capped at 7.

 

As to the whys, and the uses:

 

"Why" is mostly for flavor text. "Fast and dexterous as a top Olympic athlete", "near legendary strength", and similar phrases just sound good to me when doing character descriptions. Plus, it helps me keep track of baselines in important characteristics for weekend athletes (10-12), trained cops, soldiers and emergency personnel (13-15), elite troops and professional athletes (16-18), elite athletes (19-21), the best of the best of the best (22-24), and those legends who will be remembered by sports fans forever (25+). Topping out at 30 is arbitrary, but on the STR chart at lease it's just a few steps beyond current world records, and seems (to me as a strengths sports fan) just about obtainable.

 

I don't see any point in doubling costs for characters who go past the 20 or 30 line; it's either a campaign where that's possible, in which case they just get the label "superhuman", or a campaign where it's not, in which case I don't permit it at all. I'm aware that many don't share that opinion.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Human Maximums

 

I go with what the book recommends which is 30, except I limit all of the Characteristics to 30. I think the 50 cap they have for non-physical characteristics to be too high, and as a previous thread demonstrated never used ever. SPD is pegged at 7. Figured characteristics as derived from these maximums.

 

So anything higher than this and the person leaves what is possible for the human form and becomes superhuman.

 

TB

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Human Maximums

 

Well, my bias is that human norms are 8. And going with the normal human maximum at 20 and the absolute pinnacle of human perfection at somewhere between 23 and 25.

 

At 25 STR, you can tip a small car over just by trying really hard.

At 25 DEX, (8 DCV) vs (4 DCV), you can impressive avoid being shot 75% of the time, more if you account for range.

 

Looking at skills...

At 25, you commonly handle difficult tasks as if they were average. Average tasks are easy for you. Easy tasks become routine. Extremely difficult tasks become merely difficult. Or, another way to look at it, 25 means you can take 1/5th the amount of time (-3 penalty to move one slot up the chart) to a task that a person with the same training but with an 8 stat. If that person wants to take his time, he would have to take 125 times to carefully research to reproduce a result that a person with a 25 could do.

 

That gives you an idea what 24 COM can do, seduce someone in 1/5th the normal amount of time, or force someone to take 125 more time grooming to look as good as you do naturally.

 

A Recovery of 10 means that you recover in 1/5th the time. Not very impressive until you think about long hospital stays, doing two weeks worth of healing in just under three days is impressive.

[JmOz]

Re: Human Maximums

 

Mine is a little confusing

 

First there is HCM: This is equal to NCM x1.5, so Primaries go to 30, PD/ED go to 12, speed 6, Stun and End to 75, Rec 15

 

HOWEVER: This only covers the "Jerico Effect" If a character wants to go above the stated limits they could buy it as a super-skill, sometimes with or without limitations, I expect it written down, with an explanation of what it represents. So a batman like character could buy up his "Highly trained Mind" as a super skill +10 INT. So in a sense I have no limits, but want a good story to go with things over HCM

[OddHat]

Re: Human Maximums

 

So in a sense I have no limits' date=' but want a good story to go with things over HCM[/quote']

 

Which is probably the best way to think about it when dealing with a game detailing the adventures of Cinematic Action, Pulp, or Comic Book characters.

[Comic]

Re: Human Maximums

 

You actually cap Skills in Champions? Why?

I use an 'Impossible Feat' option, where truly impossible results can be obtained with a roll if you have a skill in excess of 18-.

 

This would be limited to concepts that have beyond human skill, such as extremely long-lived beings, hyperintelligent genius-types with amplified mental processes, some mutants and alien races.

 

Dracula or Lestat can go beyond 17- in KS: History (they were actually there, which is an impossible feat for a modern normal human historian). The High Evolutionary or Brainiac can delve mysteries beyond the ken of mortal man. Sparks in the Foglioverse are not subject to this maximum. Spiderman's acrobatics are superhuman. Vulcans can go beyond 17- in areas of logic and mathematics.

[Joe]

Re: Human Maximums

 

Thanks for the info. This is just the kind of info I was looking for.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Human Maximums

 

You actually cap Skills in Champions? Why?

 

Opposed skill rolls is why.

 

If you allow unchecked skill levels, eventually, one person could generate a roll so high, it would be meaningless for anyone else to even try.

 

Anything that narrows the options for the players is a bad idea IMO.

 

This, obviously, does not apply to skills where the only frame of reference is the actual user, e.g. breakfall.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Human Maximums

 

I use an 'Impossible Feat' option, where truly impossible results can be obtained with a roll if you have a skill in excess of 18-.

 

This would be limited to concepts that have beyond human skill, such as extremely long-lived beings, hyperintelligent genius-types with amplified mental processes, some mutants and alien races.

 

Dracula or Lestat can go beyond 17- in KS: History (they were actually there, which is an impossible feat for a modern normal human historian). The High Evolutionary or Brainiac can delve mysteries beyond the ken of mortal man. Sparks in the Foglioverse are not subject to this maximum. Spiderman's acrobatics are superhuman. Vulcans can go beyond 17- in areas of logic and mathematics.

I'd love to see what my PC with 22- (24- w/Overall Levels) in Acrobatics could do in your game.

[Tom]

Re: Human Maximums

 

As a general guideline, I use NCM for a starter, then allow 'Extraordinary Char Max' which is +25% (25 for primaries, etc...) with one additional caveat. I allow chars with martial arts to have an additional +1 SPD and stay within guidelines...

 

Past ECM the char needs some sort of in game reason for having superhuman abilities (not that it's that hard to convince me of a reason, but past a certain point, you're not a 'normal' human so don't try and tell me you are...)

[Comic]

Re: Human Maximums

 

I'd love to see what my PC with 22- (24- w/Overall Levels) in Acrobatics could do in your game.

Well, if he takes -10 to the roll, and makes it, you could load him into a trebuchet at one end of the jungle and launch him through the forest of trees like a pinball, and he'd end up at the other end of the jungle, where the catapult's trajectory ended, unscathed.

 

If he took -12 to the roll, he'd also have collected an armload of fresh fruit and nuts on a complementary Survival roll along the way.

 

At -20 to the roll, he could do the same trick among the skyscrapers and traffic helicopters of a major metropolitan area, or escape Shield's flying HQ through a window under a barrage of gunfire, land on his feet a fighter plane in midflight, and hold on long enough to trade places with the pilot if he could crack the canopy.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Human Maximums

 

Well, if he takes -10 to the roll, and makes it, you could load him into a trebuchet at one end of the jungle and launch him through the forest of trees like a pinball, and he'd end up at the other end of the jungle, where the catapult's trajectory ended, unscathed.

 

If he took -12 to the roll, he'd also have collected an armload of fresh fruit and nuts on a complementary Survival roll along the way.

 

At -20 to the roll, he could do the same trick among the skyscrapers and traffic helicopters of a major metropolitan area, or escape Shield's flying HQ through a window under a barrage of gunfire, land on his feet a fighter plane in midflight, and hold on long enough to trade places with the pilot if he could crack the canopy.

And she'd look good doing it.

[Certified]

Re: Human Maximums

 

And she'd look good doing it.

 

That's an extra -2

[Comic]

Re: Human Maximums

 

That's an extra -2

With a complementary Seduction roll.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Human Maximums

 

Well, if he takes -10 to the roll, and makes it, you could load him into a trebuchet at one end of the jungle and launch him through the forest of trees like a pinball, and he'd end up at the other end of the jungle, where the catapult's trajectory ended, unscathed.

 

If he took -12 to the roll, he'd also have collected an armload of fresh fruit and nuts on a complementary Survival roll along the way.

 

At -20 to the roll, he could do the same trick among the skyscrapers and traffic helicopters of a major metropolitan area, or escape Shield's flying HQ through a window under a barrage of gunfire, land on his feet a fighter plane in midflight, and hold on long enough to trade places with the pilot if he could crack the canopy.

 

I recognize the -20 to the roll as something that actually happened in Civil War... so I just gotta know if the other two things actually happened in a comic somewhere...

[joshua_lnk]

Re: Human Maximums

 

wow all that was a bit out of my leage could some one refer me to the newbies board? I am kinda new to champions and REAL new to this sight. please e-mail me with the info cuz till I am more familar with how this works I do not know if I will be able to find this spific board again. thanks for your patencens and help:)

[Comic]

Re: Human Maximums

 

I recognize the -20 to the roll as something that actually happened in Civil War... so I just gotta know if the other two things actually happened in a comic somewhere...

It's called a gnome-flinger.

The bits with the fruit and the skyscrapers, though, were just examples.