MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Ok. I've spent the morning doing the research and here is my idea and my problem... you get to help with the solution About 6 months ago, my group of Heroes were on a time travelling mission where they fought a team of Nazi Supervillains just prior to WWII. After the encounter, Overman, the leader of the Nazi team, had heard enough to realize that the people he fought were from the future and that it didn't look like the Nazi's won. He spent thhe war trying to ensure a Nazi victory, but realized that they WERE going to fail and started looking for a way to get out. He found a scientist who developed a sleep-chamber so that he could outlive those that remembered him and wake up in the future, scott free. About 3 months ago, he was awakened by Simon Pinehurst (my major villain, very much like Telios). Pinehurst used his genetic engineering to "Upgrade" Overman into a much bigger threat (now instead of leading a team, he was a threat to my players all by his lonesome). Overman became Ultra. Pinehurst was defeated and jail (where he is now in the Hannibal Lector/Villainous Advisor role), but the team has no idea where Ultra is located. Today. The Heroes have just gone on a Parallel World hopping adventure and they will be ending up on Nazi world soon. My idea is that when they escape Nazi world with the object they are seeking (and hopefully helping the resistance to begin the overthrow) the team will leave a little rip in space-time, allowing a small remnant of Nazis to escape into the Heroes' reality. The Plan. I want Ultra and the expatriated Nazis to team up, conquer a small nation and have a Dr. Doom/Red Skull type threat with diplomatic immunity. My research today has been in the area of the United Nations and what they are willing to do and how soon. Only two countries are not part of the UN (Vatican and Taiwan). But the UN has to either be invited or draft a resolution to send peacekeepers... this takes time. The Problem: (This is where you come in ) Ultra and his cronies need a nation (preferably a socialist nation with a fascist underground or a fascist nation who needs a strong leader) that they can lead a revolution (meaning the UN will be unlikely to interfere) and overthrow the government. So... 1) Who do they invade (I was thinking Madagascar because of the size and it's an island)? 2) How do I keep UNICORN (my UNTIL) out of it? Your help is appreciate and feel free to steal the idea if you like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Assuming fairly realistic geopolitics, what you really need is a country where the US, China, etc. won't want to get involved. If a real threat popped up in Madagascar, the US would waltz on in, UN or no UN. For that reason, I'd pick a former Soviet republic -- Russia doesn't want anyone else screwing around in her backyard, and is unable to deal with the threat until it's too late. I can see the UN being very unwilling to enter as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Re: Campaign Help Needed: Modern Fascism Originally posted by MisterVimes So... 1) Who do they invade (I was thinking Madagascar because of the size and it's an island)? 2) How do I keep UNICORN (my UNTIL) out of it? 1) I would go with a nation in South America, after all, everyone in Hollywood knows that's where a lot of old Nazis went anyways to create the next fuhrer using some Nazi treasure. WHICH nation, I'm not sure; I would likely wimp out and create a fictional one. 2) How about the nation that's being taken over was suspected of being controlled by either drug lords or of supplying terrorists world wide? This way the facsists would be seen as the 'lesser' evil... weird as that might seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Re: Re: Campaign Help Needed: Modern Fascism Originally posted by Hermit 2) How about the nation that's being taken over was suspected of being controlled by either drug lords or of supplying terrorists world wide? This way the facsists would be seen as the 'lesser' evil... weird as that might seem. Columbia might make a good choice... hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 As an addendum, it can't be a NATO country, because AEGIS (my NATO super-agency) would role in in two seconds flat. Nato members: Belgium Canada Czech Rep Denmark France Germany Greece Hungary Iceland Italy Luxembourg Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Spain Turkey United Kingdom United States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 South American and central African coutries are also good choices because of NAZI expatriates that fled to these areas after the war and they have very corruptable governments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by levi South American and central African coutries are also good choices because of NAZI expatriates that fled to these areas after the war and they have very corruptable governments. Obviously Argentina also jumped to the forefront, but I figured that it would take too long to take over something that big and the UN would jump in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 other variations Another way to 'take over'. Take one economically struggling nation where it is NOT unheard of to have natural disasters such as earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes or tidal waves. The facist supers covertly arrange (By powers or super science) one, focusing it chiefly on the center of government power. Boom. Disaster hits, panic, chaos, and the government reduced to a shell, can barely tend to it's own wounds, let alone those of the citizenry. Enter our schemers, who bring much needed supplies, morale, and help to the nation. For that matter, maybe they can 'stop' or at least avert the disaster at the last minute. The population would likely embrace such "heroes" with open arms, even to the point of wanting them as rulers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Lets see.... Socialist Values.... Fairly Volatile Domestic Situation.... Weak Economy.... Industrial Potential.... Government Engageing In Payback For Racial Oppression.... Disgruntled Minority Who Used To Be In Power.... South Africa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Re: other variations Originally posted by Hermit Another way to 'take over'. Take one economically struggling nation where it is NOT unheard of to have natural disasters such as earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes or tidal waves. The facist supers covertly arrange (By powers or super science) one, focusing it chiefly on the center of government power. Boom. Disaster hits, panic, chaos, and the government reduced to a shell, can barely tend to it's own wounds, let alone those of the citizenry. Enter our schemers, who bring much needed supplies, morale, and help to the nation. For that matter, maybe they can 'stop' or at least avert the disaster at the last minute. The population would likely embrace such "heroes" with open arms, even to the point of wanting them as rulers. The following was suggested by a friend on another board: Ok, here's one: it doesn't have to be a military invasion. Freak the heroes out by making it a political one. Of course, being Nazis and Overman/Ultra, therefore Pure Evil, they probably did plenty of underhanded things like assassination, blackmail, etc. (unlike current governments that we praise without question) but then made the coup itself with relatively peaceful means. But the time UNICORN knew what was going on, Ultra was either titular leader or he and the Nazis were a Shadow Government. And South America is ripe in so many ways....drug money, weird military/police crossover, anti-American sentiment pretty much for exploitation and the effects of the drug war + guerilla terrorists looking for a central focus. A combination of your two ideas may indeed be the ticket, especially in a pro-fascist nation... say Argentina. Plenty of Neo-Nazi backing, Ultra lays a few speeches on them and as quick as you can say "Beer Hall Putsch", he's elected and legal... just like Adolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadha Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 It shouldn't be a country with oil. Nothing would keep the US out then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man Lets see.... Socialist Values.... Fairly Volatile Domestic Situation.... Weak Economy.... Industrial Potential.... Government Engageing In Payback For Racial Oppression.... Disgruntled Minority Who Used To Be In Power.... South Africa And it's an ARYAN minority... genius, pure genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 A land under dispute that is not the center of current world controversy might work. Many African nations would be an excellent choice because they are frequently engaged in civil war. For example, Zaire (the Congo). South American nations would also be a good choice due to the high level of local corruption and historical nazi presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadha Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man Lets see.... Socialist Values.... Fairly Volatile Domestic Situation.... Weak Economy.... Industrial Potential.... Government Engageing In Payback For Racial Oppression.... Disgruntled Minority Who Used To Be In Power.... South Africa A quick note- Socialist values would not make a place ripe for conquest by Nazis as the Nazis were not socialists despite their misleading party name. One of the first things the Nazis did was round up the communists. Of course, if a group of fascists like the Nazis are working to replace a communist or socialist state, there is a good chance the United States would support the fascists as they have done several times in the past. (The US has a long history of supporting fascists in fights with Communists or Socialists staring when they invaded Russia during the revolution to try and keep the Czars in power.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by Nuadha A quick note- Socialist values would not make a place ripe for conquest by Nazis as the Nazis were not socialists despite their misleading party name. One of the first things the Nazis did was round up the communists. Of course, if a group of fascists like the Nazis are working to replace a communist or socialist state, there is a good chance the United States would support the fascists as they have done several times in the past. (The US has a long history of supporting fascists in fights with Communists or Socialists staring when they invaded Russia during the revolution to try and keep the Czars in power.) Actually, my thought was that in a SOCIALIST country, the potential revolutionaries might respond well to Fascist (and therefore anti-communist) rhetoric. In which case the Fascist villains would be supporting a Fascist Underground against the Socialist regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Another thought. I found the following and thought it might be of help... and then I thought to share it: FASCISM - 14 CHARACTERISTICS June 21, 2003 Dr. Lawrence Britt Destruction Abroad to create Distraction at Home Dr. Britt, a political scientist, published his article “Fascism Anyone?†in Free Inquiry magazine (Spring, 2003), a journal of humanist thought. He studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). Dr. Britt found the regimes all had 14 things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. 4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. 5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male- dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy. 6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common. 7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. 9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions either are eliminated, or are severely suppressed. 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts. 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations. 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. 14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. EDIT: No Social Commentary is intended by including this information... carry any such discussions to the Off Topic Boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadha Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 OK. That makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by Nuadha OK. That makes more sense. Yeah... I knew what I was saying, but I didn't convey that very well in my initial post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Here's a slightly different suggestion that's likely to be a little more politically palatable (I'm talking realpolitikally palatable; personally I find the prospect loathsome): Israel was created as a homeland for the Jews; Sierra Leone as a homeland for the descendants of black slaves; how about petitioning the U.N. for the creation of an Aryan homeland? We already have the common conceit of a colony of expatriate Germans descended from the Nazis living in South America. Suppose a charismatic leader like Ultra convinced them to use some of their hoarded Nazi gold to purchase unoccupied land from Argentina or Brazil to set up as a state for the "Aryan people?" The precedent is certainly there, and as long as none of the leaders were known to have participated in war crimes, and there were no minorities within the country's borders to oppress, there might be no legal objection to it. The state could become a refuge for disgruntled white supremacists from around the globe. I suspect that there would be no small amount of support in the international community for the creation of such a state, either from true sympathy with the Aryans' views or a desire to "send 'em anywhere as long as it's out of our country." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Here's a slightly different suggestion that's likely to be a little more politically palatable (I'm talking realpolitikally palatable; personally I find the prospect loathsome): Israel was created as a homeland for the Jews; Sierra Leone as a homeland for the descendants of black slaves; how about petitioning the U.N. for the creation of an Aryan homeland? We already have the common conceit of a colony of expatriate Germans descended from the Nazis living in South America. Suppose a charismatic leader like Ultra convinced them to use some of their hoarded Nazi gold to purchase unoccupied land from Argentina or Brazil to set up as a state for the "Aryan people?" The precedent is certainly there, and as long as none of the leaders were known to have participated in war crimes, and there were no minorities within the country's borders to oppress, there might be no legal objection to it. The state could become a refuge for disgruntled white supremacists from around the globe. I suspect that there would be no small amount of support in the international community for the creation of such a state, either from true sympathy with the Aryans' views or a desire to "send 'em anywhere as long as it's out of our country." What a wonderfully HORRIBLE suggestion... And the Nazi Gold comment gave me an image of Hitler's brain in a jar. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 I always liked fictional countries. Add a big island in the Caribbean and it's much closer to the United States. Heck, let them threaten Cuba which leaves the US Government in a confused position as to how to handle the new Island Government. Do we aggressively try to stomp out a fascist government in the Caribbean? Do we help it destabilize Cuba? Do we just ignore it? There could be plenty of support for all three positions which leads to political intrigue on the American scene full of potential for story-lines. Add a tiny country in the Alps and it's much closer to the "Fatherland." If the small country never involved itself in NATO, the NATO countries may opt to stay out for political reasons, especially with notable right-wing factions in France and Germany. Then you have the tension as right-wing organizations in France and Germany receive moral and possibly more tangible support from the little Alpine Country. Always throw in a special resource that allows the small country to have influence disproportionate to its size and population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by Nuadha A quick note- Socialist values would not make a place ripe for conquest by Nazis as the Nazis were not socialists despite their misleading party name. One of the first things the Nazis did was round up the communists. Of course, if a group of fascists like the Nazis are working to replace a communist or socialist state, there is a good chance the United States would support the fascists as they have done several times in the past. (The US has a long history of supporting fascists in fights with Communists or Socialists staring when they invaded Russia during the revolution to try and keep the Czars in power.) The Czars weren't fascist, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher The Czars weren't fascist, though. Autocratic Monarchies have many similarities with fascism. I can see the merits of the example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 RE: South Africa Originally posted by MisterVimes And it's an ARYAN minority... genius, pure genius. IIRC, "Aryan" rhetoric and quasi-mythology didn't really ever enter into the conflict in South Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher RE: South Africa IIRC, "Aryan" rhetoric and quasi-mythology didn't really ever enter into the conflict in South Africa. You are correct, but with a Dutch-English background they certainly would fall in Ultra's definition of Aryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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