area of effect

[steph]

ok let see iv got a energy blast with a 5 radius of effect ............now i attack a hex and in the 5 radius he have 4 orcs ..........my question is if my attack on the hex succeed i have to roll 4 attack roll vs the orcs? or if i hit the hex the 4 orcs are automaticaly hit

hope i am clear english not my first language

stef from montreal

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: area of effect

 

You roll to hit the hex you want to hit, whose DCV is 3. If the orcs dive out of the hexes they're in, outside the blast radius, you miss. If they don't move or can't get outside the radius, you hit all four. When you roll damage, you apply it to all who got hit.

 

If you miss the hex, that just means that you missed that hex. Your GM determines where it DOES hit, usually by rolling a 1d6 to determine which direction it went, instead, and moving it that direction by however many you missed by. Whoever's caught in THAT radius takes damage.

[ghost-angel]

Re: area of effect

 

If you have Selective Area Of Effect you roll against each target.

 

If you have Non-Selective Area Of Effect everyone in the area is automatically hit.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: area of effect

 

If you have Selective Area Of Effect you roll against each target.

 

If you have Non-Selective Area Of Effect everyone in the area is automatically hit.

Really? As an advantage? Seems to me that having to roll against a target's DCV instead of the hex's isn't much of an advantage.

 

I guess I should be glad nobody in my game's taken Selective on their AoE attacks.

[Sean Waters]

Re: area of effect

 

Really? As an advantage? Seems to me that having to roll against a target's DCV instead of the hex's isn't much of an advantage.

 

I guess I should be glad nobody in my game's taken Selective on their AoE attacks.

 

The advantage is that you can let off an AoE in an area containing both friends and enemies and decide to ONLY hit the enemies.

 

I think, technically, non selective is a limtiation on the advantage which means that you target EVERYONE in the area but you need a normal OCV v DCV roll to hit them.

 

A 'normal' AoE, however, automatically hits everyone in the area of effect, well, assuming they do not abort to Dive For Cover

[ghost-angel]

Re: area of effect

 

Really? As an advantage? Seems to me that having to roll against a target's DCV instead of the hex's isn't much of an advantage.

 

I guess I should be glad nobody in my game's taken Selective on their AoE attacks.

 

Selective let's you choose which targets you hit in an AoE.

 

Meaning a Selective Fireball could be tossed into the fray and you can choose to only target enemies and not friends. You still roll to hit the target Hex.

[ghost-angel]

Re: area of effect

 

The advantage is that you can let off an AoE in an area containing both friends and enemies and decide to ONLY hit the enemies.

 

I think, technically, non selective is a limtiation on the advantage which means that you target EVERYONE in the area but you need a normal OCV v DCV roll to hit them.

 

A 'normal' AoE, however, automatically hits everyone in the area of effect, well, assuming they do not abort to Dive For Cover

 

Yeah, I had it a bit off....

 

Selective: Roll To Hit Hex, Roll To Hit Selected Targets (worth more)

Non-Selective: Roll To Hit All Targets Separately (worth less)

Normal: Roll To Hit Hex, Everyone Affected

 

 

(sorry 'bout that)

[Sean Waters]

Re: area of effect

 

Yeah, I had it a bit off....

 

Selective: Roll To Hit Hex, Roll To Hit Selected Targets (worth more)

Non-Selective: Roll To Hit All Targets Separately (worth less)

Normal: Roll To Hit Hex, Everyone Affected

 

 

(sorry 'bout that)

 

In the light of your long and sterling service to these boards, I'll let you off on that one, but don't let it happen again

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: area of effect

 

Selective let's you choose which targets you hit in an AoE.

 

Meaning a Selective Fireball could be tossed into the fray and you can choose to only target enemies and not friends. You still roll to hit the target Hex.

Well, yes, but the reason why I take AoE in the first place is, in addition to hitting more than one at a time, I can actually HIT. My dice hate me, you see, so, if I need to "only" roll a 14 to hit someone, I'll roll a 15. It wouldn't be an advantage for me to still have to hit each individual; I'd just scale down the AoE to avoid hitting an ally, if I absolutely had to get someone he (or she) had covered already.

[Sean Waters]

Re: area of effect

 

Alice, can I suggest that you get to know your dice a bit better - what THEY see as their role in the game, what THEIR ambitions are, WHY they feel that need to come up 5s and6s whenever you are trying to hit something. Maybe talking it through is all you'll need to get them on your side.

 

If that doesn't work, dip them in vodka. Drunk dice are SOOOO easy, they'll do anything you ask

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: area of effect

 

Alice, can I suggest that you get to know your dice a bit better - what THEY see as their role in the game, what THEIR ambitions are, WHY they feel that need to come up 5s and6s whenever you are trying to hit something. Maybe talking it through is all you'll need to get them on your side.

 

If that doesn't work, dip them in vodka. Drunk dice are SOOOO easy, they'll do anything you ask

Would you believe I HAVE tried that?

 

Not the vodka thing. I don't keep any on hand.

 

But I do try to reason with them, I wheedle them, I buy them nice bags, and I promise to use only them and buy no replacements if they just behave for me.

 

They behave quite well when I'm GMing, though . . .

[ghost-angel]

Re: area of effect

 

Obviously your dice have "Only Work While GMing" as a Limitation.

 

I'd buy a new set.

[Sean Waters]

Re: area of effect

 

Buy a nutcracker.

 

Roll the dice one at a time.

 

If you don't like the result, put the offending die in the nutcracker, and in full view of the others, squeeze.

 

It isn't pretty, but it gets results

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: area of effect

 

I have threatened them (and made good on my threats), but I've never tried that. I do believe I have a nutcracker around here somewhere. I'll have to dig it up.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: area of effect

 

I'd just scale down the AoE to avoid hitting an ally' date=' if I absolutely had to get someone he (or she) had covered already.[/quote']This is not allowed under the standard rules. 5ER, p. 247: "The character must choose the type and size of Area Of Effect he wants when he purchases the Power, and cannot change it thereafter (or alter it from use to use during the game)."

 

The easiest ways to make it rules-legal (IMO) are (1) Variable Advantage, or (2) a Limited VPP. An MP could also work, but probably too limited for what you're going for.

[ghost-angel]

Re: area of effect

 

Though, I believe if you use less Active Points the AoE scales down to the Active Points used.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: area of effect

 

This is not allowed under the standard rules. 5ER, p. 247: "The character must choose the type and size of Area Of Effect he wants when he purchases the Power, and cannot change it thereafter (or alter it from use to use during the game)."

 

The easiest ways to make it rules-legal (IMO) are (1) Variable Advantage, or (2) a Limited VPP. An MP could also work, but probably too limited for what you're going for.

 

Even a Limited Variable Advantage is going to be expensive.

 

Generic Attack + Variable AOE/Explosion

45 1) Generic Attack: Energy Blast 9d6 - END=4

60 2) Variable AOE/Explosion: Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; Any form of AOE or Explosion; +2) for up to 45 Active Points of Generic Attack (90 Active Points); Limited Power (Only for variations of AOE or Explosion; -1/2) - END=9

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: area of effect

 

I don't think so, though that's how I would have done it pre-5th.

 

Both the text on 5ER p. 247 previously quoted and this: "A character must always use the Advantages purchased for a Power at full strength whenever he uses that Power." on 5ER p. 246 indicate otherwise (IMO). I see a distinction between how many Active Points are in the Power (which is what the AoE distances are based on) vs. how many Active Points are being used at the time the Power is being used.

[ghost-angel]

Re: area of effect

 

Good point. humm.. I can see SFX arguments going both ways, so that's where I'm leaving it - Dramatic and Common Sense dictates whether the AoE scales down.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: area of effect

 

Even a Limited Variable Advantage is going to be expensive.

 

Generic Attack + Variable AOE/Explosion

45 1) Generic Attack: Energy Blast 9d6 - END=4

60 2) Variable AOE/Explosion: Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; Any form of AOE or Explosion; +2) for up to 45 Active Points of Generic Attack (90 Active Points); Limited Power (Only for variations of AOE or Explosion; -1/2) - END=9

Yah. I didn't say it was going to be cheap, just one of the two best ways I see to make it rules-legal. I don't even think you can get away with the -1/2; see text on 5ER p. 277 regarding Variable Advantage.

 

I don't see the common sense in the END usage going up; just because a character *can* vary the area doesn't indicate to me that should take extra effort. Then again, I have the same issue with Autofire (a 10d6 EB +1/2 AF will cost 7 END for one shot).

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: area of effect

 

Good point. humm.. I can see SFX arguments going both ways' date=' so that's where I'm leaving it - Dramatic and Common Sense dictates whether the AoE scales down.[/quote']I agree with differing SFXs pointing different ways, but still think that the official rules say the AoE is always at max.

 

Personally, I'd like for the standard rule in 6th to be that the player chooses at character conception which option is used (always full AoE or scaled with points used) as a no-cost option, similar to choosing whether an EB is Normal Damage or Stun-Only. And then add an Advantage to allow AoE scaling for less than the Variable Advantage option (seems too pricey to me). Still doesn't address the additional END usage, though.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: area of effect

 

Yah. I didn't say it was going to be cheap, just one of the two best ways I see to make it rules-legal. I don't even think you can get away with the -1/2; see text on 5ER p. 277 regarding Variable Advantage.

 

I don't see the common sense in the END usage going up; just because a character *can* vary the area doesn't indicate to me that should take extra effort. Then again, I have the same issue with Autofire (a 10d6 EB +1/2 AF will cost 7 END for one shot).

 

Yeah, the -1/2 was stretching it a bit but I wanted something to reflect that it was less than the full VA since it only applied to AOE-like Advantages which seems worth more than a -1/4 reduction to the +2 that it would have been. One bonus of building it as a Naked Advantage is that the base power can be used alone for only 4 END.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: area of effect

 

Agreed on all counts.

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: area of effect

 

This is not allowed under the standard rules. 5ER, p. 247: "The character must choose the type and size of Area Of Effect he wants when he purchases the Power, and cannot change it thereafter (or alter it from use to use during the game)."

 

The easiest ways to make it rules-legal (IMO) are (1) Variable Advantage, or (2) a Limited VPP. An MP could also work, but probably too limited for what you're going for.

Well, I've never had to do it. When it comes up in games I've been running, the characters move the "target hex" to avoid hitting allies.

 

Or, in one instance, just went ahead and fireballed the guy in the way. It was well within the character's concept to do so, though.

[BNakagawa]

Re: area of effect

 

Two words.

 

Edible Dice.