Laser target designator "HOW?"

[Payback]

Hello

 

I am working on equipment and need to create a target designator. Does one exist in a published book?

 

I don't have the foggiest idea on how to make one or even how it would work in the game?

 

Would it be some sort of Telepathy Skill level?

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

Thanks

Payback

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

What exactly do you want the effect to be?

 

If it is simply a way of hitting a target that will later be hit un-erringly by other weapons then I think you are looking at a specially limited delayed effect.

 

If the weapon is a 4D6K area effect missile then you can slap delayed effect on it and the delay would be the missile coming later.

 

Obviously the attack could be disrupted in a number of ways - erasing the laser paint, shooting down the missile/airplane etc.

 

You could also simply have it as a bonus on the to hit of the attacking missile/air strike - that would be easier - +OCV to those able to 'see' the designated target.

 

Lots of ways really....

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

I'd build it as an enhanced sense - a detect and analyse target, which would enable you to get interesting and relevant data on whatever is in your field of fire.

 

As a GM you'd have to be mad to allow it though - far too much work for you

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

I'm assuming you're looking at something like what was used in the movie Transformers, where you paint a target with the laser, and laser-guided munitions lock onto it?

 

Many, many years ago Bob Greenwade put forth an Advantage called "Public Access". This allowed anyone to gain the effects of a Power, friend or foe, without having to be tagged or chosen in any way. It seems like this would be an effective use of that Advantage; perhaps two or three Combat Skill Levels with this Advantage. I think Bob set it at +1/2, and it may be that you need to buy the Power Usable By Others, Usable At Range, or Area Of Effect.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

You could build it as levels only to offset range penalties - that is, in effect what it is doing, no?

 

The limitation would be the requirement to 'paint' the object first...

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

I'd assumed it was one of those HUD jobs which designate targets as 'threat' or not.

 

What was it you were after? Can you describe it in plain English in 25 words or less?

[Outsider]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

Have you thought of taking a naked "No Range Modifier" advantage on the Attack, with the limitation that the target has to be 'painted' with a laser designator?

[Maur]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

Would probably just be a negative to the intended targets DCV to the incoming weapon which has to have the ability to perceive the mark and be guided to it. Range penalties wouldn't apply to a guided munition as it can make course corrections while inbound to a target whereas a dummy rocket or bullet can't and so are more sensitive to misalignment at time of firing.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

If you're building a Missile as a vehicle, which is common, then the Missile itself would have a "Physical Limitation: Requires Ground Side Laser Guide"

 

At which point the guy painting the target is an SFX, or in the case of PCs painting a target, must be Role Played for the missile to hit.

[Payback]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

(Target Acquisition Gear) or Laser Targeting system.

 

2 man team sneaks in to enemy territory high up in the hills.

Paints a target with TAG . X number of miles away, Helo fires missile and hits said target. No Roll because the Team is painting the target (they are doing the active hit roll even though there is no LOS from Firing unit.

 

Some of the idea's would work if a bit abstract. I am thinking the public idea is workable with modifiers. Enemies couldn't use it unless the proper "settings or conditions where met"

 

I know they have it in RL. Plane fly way over head and drop laser guided munitions that are guided there by the Painting team.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

Well, if the Missile is a Vehicle, with proper sensory equipment then the person firing it is remotely "driving" the missile, the person painting the target is part of the SFX really.

[Payback]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

What exactly do you want the effect to be?

 

If it is simply a way of hitting a target that will later be hit un-erringly by other weapons then I think you are looking at a specially limited delayed effect.

 

If the weapon is a 4D6K area effect missile then you can slap delayed effect on it and the delay would be the missile coming later.

 

Obviously the attack could be disrupted in a number of ways - erasing the laser paint, shooting down the missile/airplane etc.

 

 

Doc

 

Yes I like this idea. I need to review the delay. So would you make the "Equipment" pay for the Missile? Or would you have it paired some how with it?

 

I am thinking that a player could pay for this during an operation when there is friendly firing capable units in the active area.

 

PB

[Payback]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

You could build it as levels only to offset range penalties - that is, in effect what it is doing, no?

 

The limitation would be the requirement to 'paint' the object first...

 

 

Doc

 

Oh this might be a simpler way of doing it. Sort of a stash of CV's that can me used like charges with the limitation that the unit must continue to paint until impact of munitions.

 

Another way might be

No range penalties for firing unit and a few CV's for good luck.

In a OAF, real equipment, charge based, then I am thinking some sort of Link or share that must be a mutual advantage paid for by both firer and fiery.

(Still very new to Hero system, years ago I was a Champions player/GM)

It is just recent that i realized what an amazing tool this whole Hero system can be. Long time Gurps player.

 

 

I am going to fiddle and see what I get.

 

Thanks everyone for there great input.

 

PB

[Sean Waters]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

A laser painter has to be kept trained on the devide, so you might be able to do this with a couple of limitations. The first would be the 'requires extra participants' limtiation in 5ER (don;t have the book with me, the one that requires more than one operator or you get penalties - in this case inaccuracy), and interuptable extra time.

 

If you wanted to build it 'literally' I'd use images to provide the laser paint - that should be very cheap, and build the missile with extra OCV, that only activates when a target is laser painted.

 

I don't know much about this tech, but I preseume that the missile does not REQUIRE laser painting to be used, it just makes it more accurate?

 

One other thought, it may be that a smart enemy could copy the laser frequency and so effectively take over the missile, which might be a very limited version of No Conscious Control.

 

 

Ooh- ooh - all you really need is the 'two man team limitation and the indirect advantage. Basically what a laser painter does is allow Team A to fire a missile from location B, and bring it in to the target.

 

Are you building the missile as a power or as a vehicle?

[Sgt_Pedro]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

How about this for the build of the goggles?

 

Naked Modifier: No Range Modifier (+1/2) for up to 200 Active Points, Usable By Other (+1/4), Invisible Power Effects, SFX Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2), Limited Power (Power loses almost all of its effectiveness) (Only To Guide Specific Ordinance; -2), OAF (-1), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2)

 

Considering the targets are almost always stationary buildings or vehicles, extra OCV levels are not necessary if trying to model the real piece of equipment. The IPE covers the fact the laser beam itself isn't visible, only the Source (the OAF). The target has no idea it's coming until they hear the jet, and since they travel over Mach 1, it's too late. The -2 Limitation reflects the fact it only works on a specific country's ordinance, with codes and frequencies prepared in advance. Concentration represents the "painting" that has to be done until impact. The AP limit can go up or down depending on how you build your missile. It's not perfect, but for most targets, or vehicles moving at Non-Combat speeds, it works well I'd think. The real version of this system can put a missile through the window of a moving truck.

[Armitage]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

Have you thought of taking a naked "No Range Modifier" advantage on the Attack' date=' with the limitation that the target has to be 'painted' with a laser designator?[/quote']

 

That's how I've generally done it, with the designator itself as a Change Environment.

 

Laser Designator: Change Environment (Target Designation) 1" radius, 1 Continuing Fuel Charge lasting 1 Hour (Power Cell; +0), Increased Maximum Range (250"; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects, SFX Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2), No Range Modifier (+1/2) (11 Active Points); OAF (-1), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Nonselective Target (-1/4). Total cost: 4 points.

 

 

Post complaining about 5E overuse of CE in 3...2...1...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

Hrm. This is kind of tricky, but I would submit that a couple of the ideas tossed around -- that you need to build the weapon and have the weapon designed in such a way that it accepts an outside targeting designation system. The first thing I'd do is use a full missile design (such as the one I've posted on HERO: Combat Evolved) and then use "No Range Modifier" or, build a custom limitation, "Range Targeting Based on Laser Designation." In other words, the onus of accuracy falls on the insertion team, and they need to hit a DCV 3, so if THEY miss their laser line, THEN the missile lands wherever the laser was planted.

 

Now, if the missile is properly built, you can roughly judge the range & time it'll take to get that far; rather than the somewhat cludgy "delayed effect," I prefer a "full model." You build the missile, know its range & speed, and then (of course) you need to know how far out the carrying vehicle is prior to launch (usually a good 30k away).

 

So I would build the targeting designator simply as a laser based weapon which is linked to the missile. The missile has an on-board computer and its attack roll is made at No Range Modifier DCV 3 (the painted hex). I have to think of how to do the best design on that, but that's the gist of how I'd design it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Laser target designator "HOW?"

 

Oooh... idea:

 

Summon: Missile, Extra Time [this is the painting part], Concentration: 1/2 DCV (or 0DCV if you prefer) [this is the keeping the laster trained on the target part].

 

If you really feel the need to deal with "summoning sickness" the target gets single phase of "is that a missile coming at me?" action before the big kaboom.