Who's doing that?

[Sean Waters]

A couple of questions, I would be obliged if the masses overmind of the discussion boards could help me out with :

 

If an attack is built with full IPE and, say, indirect, so that tracing the source of the attack is not simply checking which side you are bleeding and looking that way, would a target know who was attacking them?

 

Can anyone think of a way (apart possibly from using mind control: ignore the pain, or the +20 level with mental attacks) that you can hide from everyone, event he target, the fact that you are attacking them? Spend a minute staring at someone then they just collapse: that sort of thing.

 

Rather a different point but I've got a telekinietic character brewing who has both a MP and a EC, but the rationalle is that he effectively only has one source of TK power, so if it were to be drained, for instance, the whole thing would be affected - both frameworks. Obviously that would happen anyway if someone was draining TK sfx, but if they were draining, flight, FF, EB or TK powers it should happen too.

 

Two ways I can think to do this: either put in a physical disadvantage, or some sort of susceptibility, or link the frameworks. Personally I'd rather do the latter, but is there any problem with doing this, rule wise, and how would you do it?

 

The MP is 60 AP and 6 slots, the EC is a 30 point pool and 30 point slots (60 AP total). If I can use 'link' should it be ont he EC or the MP or even on both?

 

Thank you

[Boll Weevil]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

Would the victim know he or she had been attacked prior to passing out?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

I've handled this in the past by using the following Limitation:

 

Multipower Affected By Adjustment Powers As An Elemental Control (-1/4)

 

For an example of a Telekinetic with that Limitation and IPE (partial) powers see the following.

 

I-Mind

[OddHat]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

If an attack is built with full IPE and, say, indirect, so that tracing the source of the attack is not simply checking which side you are bleeding and looking that way, would a target know who was attacking them?

 

No.

 

Can anyone think of a way (apart possibly from using mind control: ignore the pain, or the +20 level with mental attacks) that you can hide from everyone, event he target, the fact that you are attacking them? Spend a minute staring at someone then they just collapse: that sort of thing.

 

Hide Effects of Power, the x2 level of Invisible Power Effects, unless a ruling has been made against that since the last time I checked. Other than that, MC or the +20 level on mental powers is the way to go.

 

Rather a different point but I've got a telekinietic character brewing who has both a MP and a EC, but the rationalle is that he effectively only has one source of TK power, so if it were to be drained, for instance, the whole thing would be affected - both frameworks. Obviously that would happen anyway if someone was draining TK sfx, but if they were draining, flight, FF, EB or TK powers it should happen too.

 

-1/4 Drain One Drain All; I think Ultimate Energy Projector may actually have upped this to -1/2, but don't have the book here.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

Would the victim know he or she had been attacked prior to passing out?

 

No, that is what I was trying to avoid and IPE, even at the x2 level still has the victim knowing aboutt he attack even if (as OddHat confirms) they do not know where it is coming from - if I'm reading it right

[OddHat]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

No' date=' that is what I was trying to avoid and IPE, even at the x2 level still has the victim knowing aboutt he attack even if (as OddHat confirms) they do not know where it is coming from - if I'm reading it right [/quote']

 

Looking at p.262, it doesn't look like the target would know where the attack was coming from even at the +1 level. I posted a question to Steve about it.

[Outsider]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

Would the victim know he or she had been attacked prior to passing out?

 

One may be able to build such a power, but it would generally be a really bad idea to allow it or take it in a game. Unless there is an understanding that the NPCs/villains will never get to use it.

 

Imagine how upset most players would get when the GM informed them, without telling them they were under attack and with no opportunity to do anything about it, that they exploded and are now dead.

 

It'd break most games.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

One may be able to build such a power, but it would generally be a really bad idea to allow it or take it in a game. Unless there is an understanding that the NPCs/villains will never get to use it.

 

Imagine how upset most players would get when the GM informed them, without telling them they were under attack and with no opportunity to do anything about it, that they exploded and are now dead.

 

It'd break most games.

 

 

Absolutely: I'm thinking of this power for a villain, but I'm not going to kill anyone (well, no PCs (well, unless they are really stupid)) but it shoud make an interesting 'detective' scenario.

 

I suppose there must be some 'internal sense't hat tells you you are falling asleep, or taking damage. If there is then it must be able to be blinded or flashed - but then you sense it has gone away. i don;t really want to start using mental powers to emulate this, but I may have to.

[Cancer]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

It'd break most games, though a truly lethal attack with all those adders would probably blow standard point cap values, putting this sort of thing into the Ubervillain regime. Then it's up to the GM to avoid unbalancing too much, or it turns into an exercise in pulling wings off flies.

 

A top-end mentalist might be able to scope out who's doing it by scanning for malice and intent rather than the attack itself. If it's a machine, a similar deep hacking exercise might be able to trace it on the computer network.

[Comic]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

You could always make the attack cumulative, delayed, buy Analyze "resistance to the attack" and trigger the attack to actually go off after the analyzed point of 'complete effect', with the IPE. If you really want.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

I was after a villain the players would have to track down by logic and elimination rather than just observation. There are other builds I could use (an uncontrolled attack, for instance, then it would not matter if the target knew they were under attack), but I like the idea of someone just dropping: it has a certain spookiness that should set a pleasantly paranoid feel for the scenario

[OddHat]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

I was after a villain the players would have to track down by logic and elimination rather than just observation. There are other builds I could use (an uncontrolled attack' date=' for instance, then it would not matter if the target knew they were under attack), but I like the idea of someone just dropping: it has a certain spookiness that should set a pleasantly paranoid feel for the scenario [/quote']

 

IPE, even at the +1 level, will prevent the target from knowing who attacked them, unless the attacker must obviously gesture to use the attack. Add Fully Indirect, and the victim will not know which direction the attack came from. I don't think there's any way short of Mind Control or Mental Illusions to entirely prevent the target from knowing he has been damaged, however, you could build a massive attack with one turn of Extra Time, May Take No Other Actions, and define this SFX wise as "He has been attacking the target on all his phases". When the attack finally "lands" on phase 12, the victim takes 30d6 or so, more than enough to put most targets out instantly.

[Cancer]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

... When the attack finally "lands" on phase 12' date=' the victim takes 30d6 or so, more than enough to put most targets out instantly.[/quote']

 

Sold everywhere under the label of "TPK in a Can"!

 

Seriously, my biggest reservation about this kind of thing is ... constructing a rationale that the PCs could plausibly figure out before the villain killed them all. This sounds about as fun to play as Bronze Age shamans trying to deal with someone who can drop nukes from orbit.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

IPE' date=' even at the +1 level, will prevent the target from knowing who attacked them, unless the attacker must obviously gesture to use the attack. Add Fully Indirect, and the victim will not know which direction the attack came from. I don't think there's any way short of Mind Control or Mental Illusions to entirely prevent the target from knowing he has been damaged, however, you could build a massive attack with one turn of Extra Time, May Take No Other Actions, and define this SFX wise as "He has been attacking the target on all his phases". When the attack finally "lands" on phase 12, the victim takes 30d6 or so, more than enough to put most targets out instantly.[/quote']

 

I need a sudden takedown because otherwise the culprit will be the one still standing still when everyone else starts runnning and screaming

[Sean Waters]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

Sold everywhere under the label of "TPK in a Can"!

 

Seriously, my biggest reservation about this kind of thing is ... constructing a rationale that the PCs could plausibly figure out before the villain killed them all. This sounds about as fun to play as Bronze Age shamans trying to deal with someone who can drop nukes from orbit.

 

Far from it. The players are unlikely to be attacked unless they actually work out who it is, at which point the IPE attacks don't count for that much, but this does allow them to play in a scenario which requires them to work out the culprit by deciding who had means, motive, rather than just opportunity.

 

If I was out to simply kill the PCs I wouldn't be much of a GM, would I?

[Mestopheles]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

I need a sudden takedown because otherwise the culprit will be the one still standing still when everyone else starts runnning and screaming

 

Why not just run and scream along with everyone else? Too undignified?

[Cancer]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

If I was out to simply kill the PCs I wouldn't be much of a GM' date=' would I? [/quote']

 

By some folks' definition, the measure of a GM is the PCs' fatality rate (and by that I mean PC deaths per hour of playing time, not fraction of party killed). The undetectable cause of death thing sounds right up that alley, which is why I reacted as I did.

[OddHat]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

A game in which all of the players survive (let alone their characters) is an opportunity wasted.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

A game in which all of the players survive (let alone their characters) is an opportunity wasted.

 

 

:rofl:Halleluja, brother!

[Sean Waters]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

Why not just run and scream along with everyone else? Too undignified?

 

 

Well.

 

Yes...

 

 

 

[pinecone]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

I need a sudden takedown because otherwise the culprit will be the one still standing still when everyone else starts runnning and screaming

 

Acting rolls should fix that part, and way cheaper...

[pinecone]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

IPE' date=' even at the +1 level, will prevent the target from knowing who attacked them, unless the attacker must obviously gesture to use the attack. Add Fully Indirect, and the victim will not know which direction the attack came from. I don't think there's any way short of Mind Control or Mental Illusions to entirely prevent the target from knowing he has been damaged, however, you could build a massive attack with one turn of Extra Time, May Take No Other Actions, and define this SFX wise as "He has been attacking the target on all his phases". When the attack finally "lands" on phase 12, the victim takes 30d6 or so, more than enough to put most targets out instantly.[/quote']

 

Can you "Flash" a sense of pain?

[Zeropoint]

Re: Who's doing that?

 

Sure. It's called an anaesthetic.