Attack multipowers [spoilers]

[Kdansky]

The spoilers tag is there for my group in the hopes they skip the thread. Well, it will be rather generic

 

I have a character concept where the guy is carrying around half a wagon load of weapons. Now paying full price on all weapons when he can only use one each turn (yes, yes, MPA, but how do you use 2 twohanded swords at the same time?) would be a bit expensive. So we're going for the usual approach here:

 

Multipower: 50 points pool (numbers at random)

5 ultraslots at 5 points each for 5 different weapons (HKA sword, RKA shuriken, AP dagger, penetrating needles, entangle bola, flash flashgranades, ... you get the picture). Now further assuming the character can only use each weapon once per combat (because he throws all weapons. Yes, even the sword).

That gives all the slots a -2 charges limitation. But wait. That only limits the slots, even a -2 will only make the power (5*5/3= 8) 16 points cheaper (from 75). But if we use 6 (-3/4) charges on the *whole* MP, we save more (pool of 50 / 1.75 = 28, saving 22). We also get 6 instead of 5 charges (ok, that's due to rounding), but we can choose freely where to use them.

It depends a bit on how you choose the numbers, but the effect is there.

 

5 charges on a MP is far LESS limiting than 1 charge per slot (with 5 slots). Cost and effect are the wrong way around.

 

How do I fix this?

 

And sorry for hogging the forums atm, I'm writing a campaign right now, have a creative phase and need some answers I'm not *that* fluent in Hero.

[Edsel]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

I am pretty certain that you can buy charages for the multi-power reserve seperately from the various slots. In this case you'd buy a 6 (in this case 5) charge limitation for the reserve and then buy a 1 charge limitation for each slot.

 

I'll hop into Hero Designer and see it that would be legal.

 

EDIT: Hero Designer says it is legal.

 

50 point reserve with 6 Charges (-3/4) = 28 points

Each power within bought with 1 charge (-2) = 2 points per ultra slot.

[braincraft]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

Assuming those are all OAF and have no limitations other than Focus and Charges, it would actually only be slightly more expensive to have them bought seperately. If they have other limitations, it might actually be cheaper.

[Kdansky]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

Ah, right, just use charges twice. Makes actually sense. First you limit amount of use (for a lot of points) and then choices (for not so many points). Still weird behaviour with bad choice of numbers, but by far not as bad as before. Thanks.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

Don't forget the Recoverable option. There's no reason why he couldn't go pick up that shuriken afterwards.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

Er...buy charges for the pool and the slots - you can use the pool 5(6) times, but any slot just once. Job done

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

Hmmm. Does having a limitation on every slot not allow you to put the same limitation value on the reserve cost? Am I thinking of older editions? Are charge limitations an exception to that?

 

In that case, you are not limiting the reserve specifically except to say that any power within that framework will have to accept the 1 charge limitation as well.

 

 

I would however echo Stevezilla in saying that the character should possibly purchase recoverable on his charges so that he can pick up and reuse thrown weapons when possible.

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

Hmmm. Does having a limitation on every slot not allow you to put the same limitation value on the reserve cost? Am I thinking of older editions? Are charge limitations an exception to that?

 

In that case, you are not limiting the reserve specifically except to say that any power within that framework will have to accept the 1 charge limitation as well.

 

 

I would however echo Stevezilla in saying that the character should possibly purchase recoverable on his charges so that he can pick up and reuse thrown weapons when possible.

 

 

Doc

 

So long as the limitations on the slots are at least as restricting as the limitation on the pool, and are of the same sort (even this last bit may not be entirely necessary) then yes, indeed, I'd say no problem. Yuo are getting additional limitation - you can only use the pool a certain number of times AND each use is also restricted to once per slot*.

 

I don't see a problem.

 

Sean 'What Ships?' Waters

 

 

 

 

* OK, so that is not actually true (p 320/321 of 5ER), but should be, and if truth is indeed beauty, then the more attractive option should have versimillitude.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

I have a character concept where the guy is carrying around half a wagon load of weapons. Now paying full price on all weapons when he can only use one each turn (yes, yes, MPA, but how do you use 2 twohanded swords at the same time?) would be a bit expensive. So we're going for the usual approach here:

 

Multipower: 50 points pool (numbers at random)

5 ultraslots at 5 points each for 5 different weapons (HKA sword, RKA shuriken, AP dagger, penetrating needles, entangle bola, flash flashgranades, ... you get the picture). Now further assuming the character can only use each weapon once per combat (because he throws all weapons. Yes, even the sword).

 

That gives all the slots a -2 charges limitation. But wait. That only limits the slots, even a -2 will only make the power (5*5/3= 8) 16 points cheaper (from 75). But if we use 6 (-3/4) charges on the *whole* MP, we save more (pool of 50 / 1.75 = 28, saving 22). We also get 6 instead of 5 charges (ok, that's due to rounding), but we can choose freely where to use them.

 

It depends a bit on how you choose the numbers, but the effect is there.

 

5 charges on a MP is far LESS limiting than 1 charge per slot (with 5 slots). Cost and effect are the wrong way around.

 

How do I fix this?

 

In theory, what prevents the character who carries a half a wagonload of weapons from leaving one behind to carrying two of something?

 

Just because HD allows it isn't an automatic stamp of approval. I would think the better course might be to apply the Charges to just the Pool, and apply the limitation "Charges Must Be Pre-Selected(-1/2)" to the pool and the slots.

[braincraft]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

I think it's a little odd that you can only use the sword once.

[Kdansky]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

I did not go into detail on the special effects for a purpose. Some players from my group might be reading this forum too Let's just say he can't, shall we?

[SteveZilla]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

I think it's a little odd that you can only use the sword once.

 

True. But it's a recoverable charge.

 

Player: "I swing my Sword!"

GM: "Okay, that uses the one Charge."

Player: "But it's recoverable. Oh, look, here it is in my hand. I have recovered it."

GM: "..."

 

[Kdansky]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

Have you all not seen Beowulf?! He only ever uses any weapon once! You need to brush up on your B-Movie Knowledge Skills. If you're at it, include Army of the Dead 3.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

True. But it's a recoverable charge.

 

Player: "I swing my Sword!"

GM: "Okay, that uses the one Charge."

Player: "But it's recoverable. Oh, look, here it is in my hand. I have recovered it."

GM: "..."

 

Yyyeah, that's why I wouldn't permit 'Charge', except for on the projectile/thrown weapons. A Limitation Which Doesn't Limit the Character Isn't Worth Any Bonus.

 

Use OAF Universal (-1), Mimimum Strength (-1/4 to -1), Required Hands (-0 to -1/2), and Real Weapon (-1/4). That'll get you from -1.5 to -2.75 without going into the more obscure stuff; adjust to fit each weapon. A knife? Minimum Strength 3 (-1/4), Required Hands (1 Hand, -0), -1.5 total. A claymore? Minimum Strength 18 (-1), Required Hands (2 Hands, -1/2), -2.75 total.

[Zed-F]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

I wouldn't use any of the Minimum STR, Required Hands, or other heroic item construction lims for a weapon in a supers game. Those are purely intended for heroic-level games and don't make sense (i.e. are not really limiting) in a superheroic game.

 

However, I can see a charge limitation if there is an actual reason why it only has one charge. Suppose it's a laser sword with only enough energy in the battery for one attack? (Crummy design, maybe, but theoretically possible.) Or maybe it's a glass sword which will shatter after one use?

[JmOz]

Re: Attack multipowers [spoilers]

 

I wouldn't use any of the Minimum STR, Required Hands, or other heroic item construction lims for a weapon in a supers game. Those are purely intended for heroic-level games and don't make sense (i.e. are not really limiting) in a superheroic game.

 

However, I can see a charge limitation if there is an actual reason why it only has one charge. Suppose it's a laser sword with only enough energy in the battery for one attack? (Crummy design, maybe, but theoretically possible.) Or maybe it's a glass sword which will shatter after one use?

 

You know I know that that is the offical take BUT, really are they inappropriate? It seems to me that in Supers some of those are more meaningful, or at least as limiting

 

Think about it for a min

 

Str min, effectivly prevents the use of some str, depending on the character this could be effective on a HKA, or not, and would definatly limit a HA

 

Required hands, again it would be dependent on the character, and the enforcement of the lim. An archer with it needs both hands, Green Arrow in DKR does not have this lim on his bow (He shoots it with his mouth if I remember)