How would you build this power?

[Gideon]

I have an idea for a metalist character with a quirky twist, and I'm not sure what the best way to build him would be.

 

The character is physically both deaf and blind (caught in an explosion as a teen). However even though he has no functioning optic nerves and no functioning eardrums, he can see and hear through the use of clairvoyance.

 

Now the thing about it is SFX wise, he can see and hear normally by involuntary use of clairvoyance. He has full range of hearing, full use of sight (color, depth, distance, etc...) but nothing extra (no darkvision, ultrasonic hearing, increased arc of perception, spacial awareness, etc...).

 

Now as far as I can think up, the net result of this should be effective sight and hearing flash immunity, and possibly a limitation of: sight and hearing flashed as mental sense group. But I'm still not sure of the best way to build it.

 

Any ideas?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

If he sees and hears the same way as everyone else, there's no benefit or cost. It's just special effects.

 

If he's immune to sight and flash hearing Flash attacks, he needs enough Flash Defense to make himself immune to such attacks (perhaps limited to protect only against loss of sensory input so it doesn't help against, say, an AVLD).

 

Another approach is building a special enhanced sense in the mental group, to simulate his pseudo-sight and pseudo-hearing, and taking "blind" and "deaf" as physical limitations.

[Edsel]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

Well you could simply buy a lot of Flash defense vs. Sight and Hearing.

 

You could also buy a modified form of Spacial Awareness:

Detect Physical Objects (10 points) and Sound (+5 points); Targeting (+20 points) since it affects both parts of this sense; Sense (+2 points); Affected as a Mental Sense as well as Spacial Awareness (-1/4). REAL COST = 30 points

 

Normal Spacial Awareness only detected physical objects so you had to add the bit for sound. For the same 30 points you could simply buy 15 points of Flash Defense vs. Sight and Hearing but that might not be enough to make you totally immune from high powered flash or AP flash, Penetrating flash, etc.

 

If this ability is always on you probably should not get many, if any, points for the disadvantages of Blindness and Deafness. After all the character actually isn't blind or deaf.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

Simul-Send. Edsel's build seems very workable, although I'm not sure about the "affected by mental" limitation, rather than making the Sense part of the Mental Group by default.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

Why would his clairvoyance of "normal hearing" protect him from a sudden sonic boom?

 

In other words, why does this sense protect him from a form of sensory overload that would deny him the sense? (super bright flashes, super loud sounds...)

 

For more physical things like Eye Gouges I would simply SFX it.

[Edsel]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

Simul-Send. Edsel's build seems very workable' date=' although I'm not sure about the "affected by mental" limitation, rather than making the Sense part of the Mental Group by default.[/quote']

 

That was my munchkin nature trying to cut the cost some.

[Gideon]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

I didn't plan on gaining any points for Blind or Deaf as disadvantages. Because the character isn't really blind or deaf, he just sees and hears "differently"

 

Ghost-angle: The idea I had was because he senses these things via ESP, he can't be overloaded by normal means. Its strange (I know) but that was part of the effect I was going for.

 

Edsel: The problem with using Detect physical objects is that it has both limitations (no color, no ability to see type, no ability to see what's on a TV screen) and advantages (seeing invisible people, seeing through darkness) that I don't want him to have.

 

I think maybe I'll just go with lots of flash defense and a phys-lim of sight and hearing flashed as mental group and clairsentience group.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

If they aren't hampered in any way, but have some protection from Flash Attacks, well, that's what Flash Defense is for.

 

You're Flash Defense SFX are: Clairvoyance Senses Are Hard To Interrupt

[SteveZilla]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

It's too bad the system doesn't have a way to "reassign" a sense from one group to another. This is exactly what the OP is wanting, and would handle being both (referring to the normal perceptions) blind and deaf. Just reassign Normal Sight and Normal Hearing to the Mental Sense Group. They don't change due to the simulated-sense rule, and gain none of the benefits or detriments of the new group, and continue to function as they did in their old Sense Group.

 

I can see just needing an adder for this to happen. It's much less likely that they will be flashed because of the reassigning because Mental Group flashes are much less common than sight or hearing flashes.

 

I'd ballpark the adder's cost at 20 pts for Sight and 10 pts for Hearing to reassign them to the Mental Group.

 

Or you could "rebuild" Normal Sight and Normal Hearing with Detects placed in the Mental Group and also take Blind and Deaf as 0 Point Disadvantages. He'd need to take Blind and Deaf (at 0 points) if he actually is, as some Martial Maneuvers and NND attacks depend upon having (working) eyes and ears.

[JmOz]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

It's too bad the system doesn't have a way to "reassign" a sense from one group to another. This is exactly what the OP is wanting, and would handle being both (referring to the normal perceptions) blind and deaf. Just reassign Normal Sight and Normal Hearing to the Mental Sense Group. They don't change due to the simulated-sense rule, and gain none of the benefits or detriments of the new group, and continue to function as they did in their old Sense Group.

 

I can see just needing an adder for this to happen. It's much less likely that they will be flashed because of the reassigning because Mental Group flashes are much less common than sight or hearing flashes.

 

I'd ballpark the adder's cost at 20 pts for Sight and 10 pts for Hearing to reassign them to the Mental Group.

 

Or you could "rebuild" Normal Sight and Normal Hearing with Detects placed in the Mental Group and also take Blind and Deaf as 0 Point Disadvantages. He'd need to take Blind and Deaf (at 0 points) if he actually is, as some Martial Maneuvers and NND attacks depend upon having (working) eyes and ears.

 

You know, I so disagree with this in concept

 

Daredevil gets 0 points for being blind, but has paid 15 points for his radar sense

 

so to sort of do what most characters can do he is now 15 points less than everyone else. I personaly see no problem letting him take the disads up to what he has spent to "Get around them" based on active points...Kind of a one hand washing the other type thing to allow the character to sort of change of basic senses

[ghost-angel]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

I probably wouldn't allow a Physical Limitation: Deaf and Blind.

 

I would most certainly allow it to change to either Distinctive Feature or Social Limitation (depending on the society). Especially if they maintained a Secret ID where they couldn't simply use their superpowers to overcome the handicap.

[SteveZilla]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

You know, I so disagree with this in concept

 

Daredevil gets 0 points for being blind, but has paid 15 points for his radar sense

 

so to sort of do what most characters can do he is now 15 points less than everyone else. I personally see no problem letting him take the disads up to what he has spent to "Get around them" based on active points...Kind of a one hand washing the other type thing to allow the character to sort of change of basic senses

 

But for those 15 points he is now not just resistant, but *immune* to Sight Group Flashes (even APx4 ones), Sight Group Images, and NNDs requiring the person to be able to see. A fair bargain, IMO, as Radar Group Images, Flashes, and NNDs are much, much less common. Not to mention not being dependent upon ambient lighting...

 

EDIT: Datedevil should get *some* points for the Blind Disad if the Radar Sense does not fully replace Normal Sight IMO. Maybe 5? I don't read Daredevil, so I'm not aware of what he can and can't do with his sense (and it also depends upon which writer's material we're using as well).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

You know, I so disagree with this in concept

 

Daredevil gets 0 points for being blind, but has paid 15 points for his radar sense

 

I'm against it as well.

 

Someone who takes blind and deaf is also immune to all of the attacks requiring a person to see or hear, even 4xAP ones. And that is simply from taking a disadvantage, not from buying anything.

 

I would allow the senses built to replace the facility of hearing and seeing as long as they do not cost less than the disadvantages. I would expect that some of the clairvoyance would not be the same as straight sight and hearing, otherwise there is no point in doing it this way.

 

Obviously there is some advantage, as per a blind person, but there is a downside in that a mental flash removes all of the persons ability to percieve anything, there is not the backup anyone else might have, it would also be subject to 'interference' that no-one else would be able to detect and possibly subject to either delay or 'change' (ie the prediction of the immediate future was not as perfect as it should have been.

 

So. I understand where Ghost Angel and others are coming from. They do not want the player to gain advantage for no cost. Instead I would advocate ensuring that the bought disadvantage did come into play sometimes (there are points provided for it after all) and that for most of the time the difference in perception is used to make things more 'interesting'.

 

 

Doc

[SteveZilla]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

I wonder if the idea came from the Dune Messiah Book where Muad'Dib lost his eyes but was able to compensate (fully) by "locking in" his Precognitive Sight to show him Now.

[Checkmate]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

As per the power Clairscientience is in the Unusual Sense group. This means you would need to by flash vs Clariscientience to blind and deafen the character. Oddly enough I just made a character like this, (blind not deaf) but my character can only see through the eyes of others.

 

As far as Daredevil I would give him Physical Limitation: All the time, Slightly Impairing. I mean you shout "It's the woman in the red dress" and he'll have no idea who that is.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

You know, I so disagree with this in concept

 

Daredevil gets 0 points for being blind, but has paid 15 points for his radar sense

 

so to sort of do what most characters can do he is now 15 points less than everyone else. I personaly see no problem letting him take the disads up to what he has spent to "Get around them" based on active points...Kind of a one hand washing the other type thing to allow the character to sort of change of basic senses

 

The conceptual issue I take with this (and I think we're at least partially on the same page) is that no one argues DD should not pay points for his radar sense "because it just makes up, partially, for loss of sight". In my view, DD is blind and should get the points for that - his loss of sight means he has given back something other characters have by default. He has a Radar Sense - he should pay the full value of this, as it is something other characters lack.

 

If this isn't "balanced", it's because either the Blind disad is mispriced or the radar sense power is. Fix the costing for everyone, not just for the guy who has both.

 

But for those 15 points he is now not just resistant' date=' but *immune* to Sight Group Flashes (even APx4 ones), Sight Group Images[/quote']

 

As is anyone who paid 15 points for Radar Sense and is not blind. DD is getting the SAME benefit as anyone else.

 

and NNDs requiring the person to be able to see.

 

This is an issue of the NND, not the radar sense. The purchaser of the NND decided that anyone with the DISADVANTAGE of being blind has the ADVANTAGE of avoiding all damage from his attack. A lot less NND's have "damage resistance" as a defense than Force Field. Should we raise the price of Force Field?

 

A fair bargain' date=' IMO, as Radar Group Images, Flashes, and NNDs are much, much less common. Not to mention not being dependent upon ambient lighting...[/quote']

 

Advantages bestowed on anyone who paid 15 points for Radar Sense, blind or not.

 

EDIT: Daredevil should get *some* points for the Blind Disad if the Radar Sense does not fully replace Normal Sight IMO. Maybe 5? I don't read Daredevil' date=' so I'm not aware of what he can and can't do with his sense (and it also depends upon which writer's material we're using as well).[/quote']

 

To me, either:

 

(a) DD should get full points for Blindness [25 points] and pay fully for his Radar sense [15 points], on the basis these are two separate abilities/disabilities OR

 

( Should pay the net cost (nil) and receive a disadvantage for the net deficit [10 points] on the basis these constitute one ability overall ("sees by radar sense instead of sight").

 

The character should not have to pay full freight for radar sense and suck up the loss of sight as having no impact.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

Personally... I think DD has the fllowing:

 

Radar Sense (or Spatial Awareness).

Physical Limitation: Blind (All The Time, Slightly) - never ever underestimate the need for color in our society, half of our culture is iconographic.

Distinctive Feature: Blind (Concealable, Noticeable) - concealable because sometimes the dude in dark sunglasses is just a dude in dark sunglasses, and sometimes he can't see.

[JmOz]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

To further churn the waters

 

Bat boy (Radar sense, blind as a ...) is a 250 point character

 

If he has bought radar sense for 15 points, and takes blind for 15 points disad he is in some ways now only a 235 point character in a 250 point game

[ghost-angel]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

On the other hand he has an invulnerability other 250 Characters tend not to have.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

To further churn the waters

 

Bat boy (Radar sense, blind as a ...) is a 250 point character

 

If he has bought radar sense for 15 points, and takes blind for 15 points disad he is in some ways now only a 235 point character in a 250 point game

 

 

That is one way to look at it but in essence he is a 250 point character who has decided to take radar sense to make him better than other characters and a 15 point disad to make him worse, it shouldn't matter that they are related in any way.

 

I think that any disadvantage should be bought on how disabling that particualr disadvantage is - regardless of how points are spent on powers.

 

Should no legs be worth less to a player who has flight?

 

Doc

[Gideon]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

SteveZilla: Sorry never read that book.

 

Checkmate: Yes, I know that about Clairsentience. I am planning on my character having his sight and hearing flashed as mental group in addition, because I think it is appropriate.

 

I think the way I'm going to build the character is: 15 points of inherent sight flash defense and 15 points of inherent hearing flash defense. And I am going to take the disadvantage sight and hearing flashed as both mental group and clairsentience group. I may also take a distinctive feature, but I haven't decided on that one yet.

 

Thanks for all the help.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

If you are alone, are you blind and deaf?

 

I mean, I can think of a number of ways you can build this: take 'blind and deaf' limitations, buy new senses, based on the appropriate sense groups, and take the limitation 'only when there is someone nearby with the appropriate sense'.

 

If you have the sort of clairsentience that does not require the presence of others either;

1. buy clairsentience - being blind and deaf should not stop you using it, or

2. buy an unusual sense: if 'detect physical objects' worries you (it CAN detect colour, shape, texture etc if built right), just take the detect as 'light and sound in th enormal human ranges', a 15 point detect (10+5), with sense (2), ranged (5) and targeting (10) for 27 points: works just a like the normal senses, but is completely unaffected by a sight or hearing group flash, as it is an unusual sense and not using the simualted sense rule.

[Alibear]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

You'll need to buy up his PS: Pinball player for this character.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

You'll need to buy up his PS: Pinball player for this character.

 

And therefore a vulnerability to sense of smell?

[braincraft]

Re: How would you build this power?

 

First of all, Daredevil actually does have problems with being blind. He can't see color, for one (which might explain his awful yellow costume), and he can't read print unless he can touch it (his super-sensitive fingers can detect the ink on the paper). On the other hand, he's immune to bright lights and can't be fooled by holograms... and blindfolding him is a waste of time.

 

What about your guy? If someone plugs his ears and covers his eyes, can he still see and hear? That sounds like it could be useful. Eventually.