Star Wars Hero Question

[beastialwarlust]

I've been playing my Star Wars Knights of the Old Replublic game and it got me thinking about starting a game set in that Era. Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with that Era so I call upon the great knowledge of this board for help. Are there any books or websites I can use for information on the Old Republic Era?

Also I need to books or websites they don't have to be RPG books but good information on the Star Wars usniverse I'm not familar with the layout of that universe or all of the alien species and vehicles. Any help would be appreciated,

[RadeFox]

I know there are literally dozens of top notch game sites on the web devoted to Star Wars. There is even a major long thread on these boards on Forces Powers done up in Hero. So you will have absolutely no trouble with a simple google search coming up with more research info then even Yoda would have time to read...

 

Also, it has been noted in several canon sources for Star Wars, that technology between the Old Republic era and Empire era star wars is virtually indistinguishable. So the only thing you are really changing is the appearance of ships and tools/droids, etc. So any write ups you find for Star Wars tech is pretty good to go into your Old Republic era game.

[beastialwarlust]

Yes I've found some good stuff on here to stea....errr borrow:D . But I do have another newbie question. I was thinking of using a VPP for building and using force powers. And I want have the player able to spend experience on increasing the amount of points available in that pool to represent the Jedi's growth in the force. I don't have the book in front of me but I was wondering if this is possible. Would you use the point cost calculation to add additional points to this pool? say a player has a 45 point pool and wanted to increase it to a 50 points or even 55 pints to to reflect additional training. I would think he would pay the cost for the additional 5-10 points what does everyone think?

[Sketchpad]

Get the "Tales of the Jedi" Trade Paperbacks from Dark Horse ... they're about that timeline.

[Citizen Keen]

Originally posted by beastialwarlust

Yes I've found some good stuff on here to stea....errr borrow:D . But I do have another newbie question. I was thinking of using a VPP for building and using force powers. And I want have the player able to spend experience on increasing the amount of points available in that pool to represent the Jedi's growth in the force. I don't have the book in front of me but I was wondering if this is possible. Would you use the point cost calculation to add additional points to this pool? say a player has a 45 point pool and wanted to increase it to a 50 points or even 55 pints to to reflect additional training. I would think he would pay the cost for the additional 5-10 points what does everyone think?

 

This is totally legal. If a character has a 45 point VPP (30 point Power, 15 point Control, assuming no control modifiers), he can spend 6 points to increase the Power Pool by 4 points (4 for the Power, 2 for the Control).

[beastialwarlust]

Excellent! thanks alot

[AnotherSkip]

ERm on the buying up the VPP assuming 45 points base _plus_ the control cost with a -1 in limitations would cost 45+ 11 (or 12 depending upon how strict the gm is on spending) =56 points.

 

to raise that to 55 points would cost 10+ a control cost increase of 3 points=13 and a final cost of 69 points

 

unless you are doing some sort of "stranger than thou" pricing.

[Captain Pants]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

For my $.02, building Force powers using a VPP will create a game that's almost, but not quite, completely unlike Star Wars. You wind up with people using the Force to do Transforms, or shoot any kind of Energy Blast, Flight, or even Growth. None of those would be appropriate Jedi abilities.

 

I tried doing Star Wars with the Hero system and met a few barriers to really representing the universe. Were I to do it again, I would predetermine a finite set of abilities for players to choose from, limitations and all, for them to put into a Force Powers multipower. My NPC Sith would have a list as well. I used Star Wars RPG materials and the various Jedi Knight FPS games from Lucasarts for inspiration on powers.

 

 

The main problem is that the system is just so flexible, and the Jedi aren't nearly so. For instance, without the above constraints, one player took "Fine Control" over his TK, and also happened to have a Kendo-inspired martial art. It seemed fine at the time, but later I found he could use his lightsaber martial art at a distance with his TK... something Yoda has certainly never done, and he's supposed to be Da Bomb. This player also chose to be able to block ranged attacks with his hands, rather than relying on the lightsaber... not my picture of a standard Jedi. He also didn't want to have concentrate to use his TK. It doesn't take much... a little tweak here, and little tweak there, and voila! You have a non-Jedi Knight. Congrats. A lot of up front work has to go into it to enforce the background, or you'll wind up with characters with Star Wars-inspired powers, but seem... off.

 

Also, I found it challenging to create a Sith villain who could take on large packs of Jedi Knights and survive, without getting obscene. Using the rules as they are, and assuming lightsabers will kill you with one hit, a defender had better abort to a dodge or block if he's being attacked. If a Jedi attacks first, or there are several Jedi attacking, a lone Sith spends all his time blocking or dodging and can't get a shot in edgewise unless he wants to abruptly die. The only way he can attack is if you jack up his SPD, which seemed like cheating to me. And how do you stop him from being disarmed by Kendo-Man with his +5 DC (translation: +25 STR to disarm), without getting silly?

 

What I wound up doing was giving them a Force Field, Requires a Skill Roll, along with a linked Damage Shield equivalent to their saber damage. Sabers were built as 4d6 HKA, NND, Does Body, not vs. Lightsabers or Force Fields. I made the Skill Roll a new skill called "Sword Mastery," which was subject to skill vs. skill. Jedi could also take this FF/Dmg Shield for the same effect, so it came down to skill vs. skill rolls, which I could easily jack up on the Sith without going overboard.

 

- Captain Pants

[Nevenall]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

It is possible to allow only a limited selection of powers in a VPP, but then you might as well use a Multipower.

The reason I didn't use a multipower for my campaign is that a Jedi should be able to use a big sense power and a big telekinesis power and perhaps several other powers all at once.

 

Bestial - I've got a pretty big selection of Force powers you might be able to modify for your campaign just click on the link in my signature.

[beastialwarlust]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

It is possible to allow only a limited selection of powers in a VPP, but then you might as well use a Multipower.

The reason I didn't use a multipower for my campaign is that a Jedi should be able to use a big sense power and a big telekinesis power and perhaps several other powers all at once.

 

Bestial - I've got a pretty big selection of Force powers you might be able to modify for your campaign just click on the link in my signature.

 

Great thanks I will look at your link

[Starwolf]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

I think an EC with a predetermined list of Jedi/Sith powers would work better than either a VPP or a mutlipower. A player could add powers to the EC only from the appropriate list as he earns enough XP to represent learning the ability, and he/she could expand the EC AP/TP level with an appropiate XP expenditure to represent their growing power level in the Force.

[Captain Pants]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

I think an EC with a predetermined list of Jedi/Sith powers would work better than either a VPP or a mutlipower. A player could add powers to the EC only from the appropriate list as he earns enough XP to represent learning the ability' date=' and he/she could expand the EC AP/TP level with an appropiate XP expenditure to represent their growing power level in the Force.[/quote']

 

You could also have different Multipowers for each class of Force use. One for sensing, and a separate one for TK, for example. What you don't want is for the Jedi to use his 20 STR TK at the same time as his 12d6 EB, knockback only attack, since the two would spring from the same tree, so to speak.

 

- Cap

[Inu]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

May main advice for adapting KotOR to gaming is to recognise which elements of the game were put in there for gamey reasons (that is, to enhance the computer game, without really making sense in the world). You may or may not wish to keep them. Myself, I'm gonna be ignoring the prevalence of personal shields and melee weapons. They did that for a bit of fun, and to some extent they worked in the game, but they don't really make sense to me.

 

As for info about the era from other sources, the game's got everything you need out of what's out there. The comics explored things like the Exar Kun war, but the particular chronology of the game is (as far as I can tell) original to that game. Things like the Mandalorian war, the Revan/Malak Sith invasion... I've found no reference to them in other sources. They'll eventually be adopted into the SW 'official' timeline (even Dark Forces is in there now), but they aren't there yet.

 

Myself, I'm planning an Apprentice game for Jedi starting between ages 11-14, set on the training academy on Dantooine, a few weeks before it goes away, scattering all the mini-Jedi to the corners of the galaxy as they're being hunted down by Sith Assassins (I'm incorporating elements of the second game, but leaving most of it out).

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

For my $.02, building Force powers using a VPP will create a game that's almost, but not quite, completely unlike Star Wars. You wind up with people using the Force to do Transforms, or shoot any kind of Energy Blast, Flight, or even Growth. None of those would be appropriate Jedi abilities.

 

I tried doing Star Wars with the Hero system and met a few barriers to really representing the universe. Were I to do it again, I would predetermine a finite set of abilities for players to choose from, limitations and all, for them to put into a Force Powers multipower. My NPC Sith would have a list as well. I used Star Wars RPG materials and the various Jedi Knight FPS games from Lucasarts for inspiration on powers.

Although I would tend to agree with you on this point Captain Pants, there is a possibility to "abuse" the possibilities of the VPP to do just what you said. It is your responsibility to not allow such things!!! The Force doesn't allow you to change People into Jawas, and you shouldn't allow it either. You will need to define the "boundries" of the Force to your players...and to be true to the sub-genre.

 

The Elemental Control is probably a better framework to use, rather than the Multipower. I think it'll serve the needs better for defining the Force.

 

The main problem is that the system is just so flexible' date=' and the Jedi aren't nearly so. For instance, without the above constraints, one player took "Fine Control" over his TK, and also happened to have a Kendo-inspired martial art. It seemed fine at the time, but later I found he could use his lightsaber martial art at a distance with his TK... something Yoda has certainly never done, and he's supposed to be Da Bomb. This player also chose to be able to block ranged attacks with his hands, rather than relying on the lightsaber... not my picture of a standard Jedi. He also didn't want to have concentrate to use his TK. It doesn't take much... a little tweak here, and little tweak there, and voila! You have a non-Jedi Knight. Congrats. A lot of up front work has to go into it to enforce the background, or you'll wind up with characters with Star Wars-inspired powers, but seem... off.[/quote']

Again, your firing on all cylinders here. You as a Gamemaster need to define the "boundries" that you are going to allow, so that you can keep the appearance of the Star Wars Universe intact. This can be a monumental undertaking for a Gamemaster, and is definitely not reccommended for the "faint of heart". If you are determined to do it in the Hero System, then you have to do it ALL THE WAY!!!

 

To quote from Yoda, "Do, or Do not...there is no try!"

 

Yes, the Hero System is extremely flexible, and open ended...it is meant to be. In my opinion, what the genre books (i.e. Star Hero, Champions, Fantasy Hero, etc.) do is to help you define not only the particular genre, but also what limitations to put on it as well to help you to represent the particular genre within the HERO System framework.

 

The major problem with STAR WARS, as far as the HERO System is concerned, is that it isn't truly "science fiction" at all. It is a sub genre between the Star Hero and Fantasy Hero genre books. It shares elements with both genre books. So, when you create your STAR WARS campaign guidelines, you have to take that very fact in mind.

 

Also' date=' I found it challenging to create a Sith villain who could take on large packs of Jedi Knights and survive, without getting obscene. Using the rules as they are, and assuming lightsabers will kill you with one hit, a defender had better abort to a dodge or block if he's being attacked. If a Jedi attacks first, or there are several Jedi attacking, a lone Sith spends all his time blocking or dodging and can't get a shot in edgewise unless he wants to abruptly die. The only way he can attack is if you jack up his SPD, which seemed like cheating to me. And how do you stop him from being disarmed by Kendo-Man with his +5 DC (translation: +25 STR to disarm), without getting silly?[/quote']

Who says that a lightsaber has to kill in one blow? Gee wiz, using that logic...can you explain how Anakin Skywalker loses a hand in Episode II: Attack of the Clones, or how Luke Skywalker loses a hand in Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back? A lightsaber is just a sword, but is energy-based, and probably Armor Piercing to boot! This goes back to my previous statement. You need to define the "limits" of your STAR WARS campaign...before even one character is created for it.

What I wound up doing was giving them a Force Field' date=' Requires a Skill Roll, along with a linked Damage Shield equivalent to their saber damage. Sabers were built as 4d6 HKA, NND, Does Body, not vs. Lightsabers or Force Fields. I made the Skill Roll a new skill called "Sword Mastery," which was subject to skill vs. skill. Jedi could also take this FF/Dmg Shield for the same effect, so it came down to skill vs. skill rolls, which I could easily jack up on the Sith without going overboard.[/quote']

Although I think that you are going a little overboard here with the lightsaber (4d6 HKA is a little much), you are correct in saying that you may need to create some skills that aren't within the framework of the HERO System. That's the beauty of the HERO System. It is open-ended, and can evolve with your game.

 

For me...it's still the best RPG system out there!

 

MisterBaldy

 

BTW...Captain Pants, you've been REPPED!!!

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

 

Who says that a lightsaber has to kill in one blow? Gee wiz, using that logic...can you explain how Anakin Skywalker loses a hand in Episode II: Attack of the Clones, or how Luke Skywalker loses a hand in Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back? A lightsaber is just a sword, but is energy-based, and probably Armor Piercing to boot! This goes back to my previous statement. You need to define the "limits" of your STAR WARS campaign...before even one character is created for it.

 

Well.. having just seen Ep 3 yesterday, with the imagery fresh in my mind, I've decided that if I were ever to run a game in the SW universe, Jedi martial arts would include several maneuvers built with the Disable element, as it seems that a core element to the fighting style involves "dis-arming" your opponent. I'd probably do one based on a fast strike, one based on a defensive strike, and one based on a riposte. I'd probably make knowledge of at least one Disabling maneuver a requirement for taking the MA package. A lot of the really tricky stuff that the Masters do I would represent with advantaged MA manuvers. I do like the forcefeild/damage sheild construct. And I would almost certainly do Force powers with either a VPP or several MP's... EC's are too expensive, too limited, and just don't feel right to me for the style.I don't have a problem with VPP's being limited in scope of abilities... almost every campaign I've run has included this exact same type of VPP. But then again... I'm a genre fiend all the way.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

How true AmadanNaBriona, I suppose that most forms of Jedi/Sith "Martial Arts" does have a heavy emphasis on the "disarm (excuse the pun)/disable" effect.

 

It seems to be somewhat commonplace.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

How true AmadanNaBriona, I suppose that most forms of Jedi/Sith "Martial Arts" does have a heavy emphasis on the "disarm (excuse the pun)/disable" effect.

 

It seems to be somewhat commonplace.

My pun was just as intentional as yours...hence why I hyphenated dis-arm

Dis-arm go here... dat-arm go dere

 

Edit: addition... Anakin vs Count Dooku... Mutiiple power attack Takeaway/fast strike disable? sounds like it works by the rules. Good enough for me

 

Addendum... Obi wan vs General Grevious. Sweep Disable. lightsabers go all over the place, with attached hands

[Captain Pants]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

Although I would tend to agree with you on this point Captain Pants' date=' there is a possibility to "abuse" the possibilities of the VPP to do just what you said. It is your responsibility to not allow such things!!! The Force doesn't allow you to change [i']People[/i] into Jawas, and you shouldn't allow it either. You will need to define the "boundries" of the Force to your players...and to be true to the sub-genre.

I agree with you on this point. In my experience, I simply found it easier to demand a finite set of abilities, rather than trying to figure out a large list of powers you couldn't do. Also, having that VPP would almost mean the player has ALL the Force powers, and that wouldn't be the case unless he was a master.

Again, your firing on all cylinders here. You as a Gamemaster need to define the "boundries" that you are going to allow, so that you can keep the appearance of the Star Wars Universe intact. This can be a monumental undertaking for a Gamemaster, and is definitely not reccommended for the "faint of heart". If you are determined to do it in the Hero System, then you have to do it ALL THE WAY!!!

 

Yes, the Hero System is extremely flexible, and open ended...it is meant to be. In my opinion, what the genre books (i.e. Star Hero, Champions, Fantasy Hero, etc.) do is to help you define not only the particular genre, but also what limitations to put on it as well to help you to represent the particular genre within the HERO System framework.

Amen, brother, that's what I found out. Having loose constraints around what a Jedi or Sith can do just didn't work at all.

Who says that a lightsaber has to kill in one blow? Gee wiz, using that logic...can you explain how Anakin Skywalker loses a hand in Episode II: Attack of the Clones, or how Luke Skywalker loses a hand in Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back? A lightsaber is just a sword, but is energy-based, and probably Armor Piercing to boot! This goes back to my previous statement. You need to define the "limits" of your STAR WARS campaign...before even one character is created for it.

 

Although I think that you are going a little overboard here with the lightsaber (4d6 HKA is a little much),

 

I wrestled with this decision for awhile. When it all boils down to it, I've found AP to be a very weak advantage (we can get more into that if you'd like). I finally decided it didn't matter how much damage a lightsaber did, as long as they all did the same. A lightsaber has to be able not only to easily kill someone, but also completely chop him in half with a single blow. That means it has to do, assuming average damage and an average person, at least 20 BODY, which is actually almost 6d6. I thought 4d6 was on the low side, myself. I also used the Hit Location chart, which meant if you got hit, you didn't necessarily die, but you were almost assuredly going to lose a body part. For the nicks and non-permanent disability Obi Wan suffered in EpII, I would attribute that to Combat Luck and poor damage rolls. I would also attribute the door-cutting in EpI to the doors having lots of BODY to burn through.

 

Overall, it worked out ok in the game. In one example, I had an unarmed (figuratively, soon to be literally) martial artist try to attack a Jedi with his Damage Shield and FF up (his lightsaber was out). The enemy was parried, and voila! His arm came flying off. And for the most part, Jedi and Sith didn't hit one another with their lightsabers, so the duels went on and on and were usually interrupted by something else. It was perfect.

 

For me...it's still the best RPG system out there!

 

I could not agree more. Were I to do it again, I would use a lot that's been brought up here and other threads. A lot of people have gone through exactly the effort you're describing, and it's a waste of time to reinvent the wheel.

 

- Cap

[dbsousa]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

Here is the background and game mechanic I used for my Jedi-like Mystic Knights...

The Order

The full name of the Order is a mystery, even to the Encyclopedia. Its members are called Paladin, or Samurai, or any of a thousand different names. They belong to an order that believes that the galaxy is a living organism, sustained by sentience and diversity of life. They are dedicated to righting wrongs throughout the galaxy and acting in its best interests. Their beliefs and studies give them abilities and skills beyond those of ordinary men.

Mystic Abilities

All members of the Order may draw on certain abilities unexplained by science. The Encyclopedia groups them into several categories. Enhancement abilities allow the Mystic to draw on hidden reserves to perform amazing feats of strength, dexterity or endurance. Psi abilities allow the Mystic to draw on the “Meta-Sentience†of the universe to gain knowledge and exert control over others. Strange abilities allow the Mystic to draw on Strange Energy to manipulate the outside world with an unseen hand.

Virtual Blades

Many members of the order are skilled in wielding a virtual blade. In the hands of a novice this blade is likely to kill the wielder, as it moves through space in an unpredictable fashion when swung. It requires a calm mind and a strong will to guide the course of such a blade, but in the hands of a master, it is the deadliest weapon imaginable. Only strange Matter and Energy can deflect its cutting edge, and many a lost limb is testament to its sharpness

The Order and the Swarm

The Order is committed to isolating the Swarm. Powerful Mystics have peered into the future and seen the Swarm destroying all sentience. The Order is equally committed to preserving life in all its diversity, giving rise to the present policy of containment.

Ronin

Occasionally Mystics will leave the Order, becoming Ronin, or Rogues. Their reasons are varied, but most often they disagree with the Ontology or Cosmology of the Order. Most Ronin fade in power, living quiet lives in remote corners of the galaxy. Some however, thirst for more power, becoming a threat to life as the order knows it. The Order endeavors to destroy these Ronin before they are able to wreak havoc.

 

Mystic Abilities:

Players may buy a Mystic Ability EC worth no more than 25 points at creation. Points spent in a Mystic ability EC must be offset by an equal number of points in Psychological Limitations and Experience Points earned after Character Creation. Players DO NOT receive extra Disadvantage points to buy Mystic Abilities, they must be part of the allotted Disadvantage points. In addition, no single Mystic Ability may exceed in Active Points the points in the EC, plus the points in Psych Lims and earned Experience Points. Mystic Abilities must be bought with at least a -1 Limitation. Common Limitations include Concentrate, Uses Endurance, Gestures and Incantations, Requires a Skill Roll, and Obvious Accessible Focus (Virtual Blade). These Limitations may be bought off with XP, but new abilities must start with a -1 Limitation. Players who belong to the Order must take Psych Lims that represent reverence for life, and discipline. If a character leaves the order, the GM may replace those with ones of his choosing

 

My attempt in setting up this mechanic, was to emphasise that Mystic Abilities were difficult and dangerous to control, and those that lost discipline became mad...

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Star Wars Hero Question

 

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using the Force as a FH style Talent/Skill "magic system", with the level of "Strong in the Force" talent determining how large a pool the character has access to, and a set of "Force Skills" needed to use different disciplines. Thus one Jedi may be very good with Force sences, while another is comparitively weak in them, but may have high Psychokinesis skills. A big way to avoid the "I can do ANYTHING with the force" is simp-ley not to let the players allocate their pools... They state what effect their character wants and the GM determines if they have the ability and how it will play out.

Could just be me tho.