Every Myth Is Not True

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Your campagine' date=' your rules, just seemed to be an inconsisancy to me.[/quote']

 

Fair enough, but I don't really see it ... basically, put Dr. Strange and Jean Grey under a 'power sensor'. Jean Grey pings, Dr. Strange doesn't. Jean is an acceptable character, Strange isn't, because Strange has no powers; just magic, which is an external force.

 

Likewise if you decide to go no aliens. The term superhero comes from the first of the genre, Kal El of Krypton.

 

The term would translate from the comics of the world, more than likely.

 

It seems that what you want is a Watchman campagine, Dr. Manhattan the only true super and everyone else gadgeteers or skilled normals.

 

I don't know anything about the Watchmen, so can't comment in detail, but ... there would be more than one super. All the PCs and the majority of people they fight, for instance. It just wouldn't be the Marvel/DC Universe Kitchen Sink where you have wizards hanging out with gods and robots fighting against an invasion of demons from another dimension.

 

To use bits from the Champions book, pg 44, these would be the acceptable sources of superpowers for this game:

Genetic Manipulation

Mutation

Super-Science

Training

 

Inappropriate sources:

Extradimensional Energies

Magic and Mysticism

Supernatural Forces

 

At this point, Alien Species is still on the fence; I'm not sure if I'd include it or not. Psionics (mentioned in the book) is a power set, not a power source, so doesn't get counted on either list. If you have psionics from Genetic Manipulation or Mutation, then yes. Psionics from Supernatural or Mystical stuff, no.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

I'm curious about how far back and recent you're going and if you're including modern and not so modern myths and folk tales. If the ancient gods like Zeus are just stories' date=' what about Christ?[/quote']

 

That's probably a big one. The options are, of course, fictional, one of the aforementioned alien gods, or just a normal guy who was a heck of a public speaker, or a mutant. I pondered, at work today, four 'strata' of mutation; Latent (powers don't awaken without a trigger), Basic (powers awaken at puberty), Advanced (like Basic, but always with high stats), and an unnamed tier of immortal/indestructible mutants. Could file Christ under that last category, I suppose.

 

Though Oddhat is right, I'll likely not go into it if I run the game, unless prompted.

 

Are Budda and Dali Llama mere psychics?

 

Probably just normal people. Just really smart/wise normal people.

 

Are good luck charms or relics really simple things with a fantastic tale attached to them?

 

Yup.

[OddHat]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Fair enough' date=' but I don't really see it ... basically, put Dr. Strange and Jean Grey under a 'power sensor'. Jean Grey pings, Dr. Strange doesn't. Jean is an acceptable character, Strange isn't, because Strange has no powers; just magic, which is an external force.[/quote']

 

Or Dr. Strange is a really powerful psionic, trained in a system of meditation and visualization techniques developed over the centuries. He calls it Magic, and thinks of it that way, just as a Kung Fu master thinks of intra-abdominal pressure manipulating breathing techniques, leverage, meditation and visualization as Chi.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

I amused myself with rules for the disease that causes both vampirism and lycanthropy. Vampires could be killed with a strong dose of antibiotics.

 

That's all well and good until the antibiotic-resistant strain of vampires begins cropping up. Perhaps they've fed on people who were undergoing treatment with antibiotics -- enough over time to render them immune but not kill them.

 

Otherwise the best first-aid for a vampire bite would be a dose of penicillin (or similar).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Or Dr. Strange is a really powerful psionic' date=' trained in a system of meditation and visualization techniques developed over the centuries. He calls it Magic, and thinks of it that way, just as a Kung Fu master thinks of intra-abdominal pressure manipulating breathing techniques, leverage, meditation and visualization as Chi.[/quote']

 

In this game world, he could most assuredly think of it that way. But if he ever got run under a power sensor (if there is such a thing), it would ping, and if genetic encryption was sufficiently advanced, they could just tell him, "You're a mutant, Harry." That's the difference. An individual character may have his delusions, but the truth is entirely different, Arthur C. Clarke's law notwithstanding. If you slap that Dr. Strange in a device clearly designated 'mutant power inhibitor', he's hosed, whereas the standard Marvel Dr. Strange would be unaffected.

 

This is hypothetical of course; I'm not sure the world would have power inhibitors or sensors or what not.

[OddHat]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

In this game world' date=' he could most assuredly think of it that way. But if he ever got run under a power sensor (if there is such a thing), it would ping, and if genetic encryption was sufficiently advanced, they could just tell him, "You're a mutant, Harry." That's the difference. An individual character may have his delusions, but the truth is entirely different, Arthur C. Clarke's law notwithstanding. If you slap that Dr. Strange in a device clearly designated 'mutant power inhibitor', he's hosed, whereas the standard Marvel Dr. Strange would be unaffected.[/quote']

 

The Marvel Universe Dr. Strange ultimately gets his powers from genetic manipulation performed by the Celestials, just like every other Marvel Mystic, and indeed like every Marvel Mutant, Eternal, Inhuman, Deviant, or Mutate. The gods are, of course, aliens. See Earth X.

[Clonus]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

In this game world, he could most assuredly think of it that way. But if he ever got run under a power sensor (if there is such a thing), it would ping, and if genetic encryption was sufficiently advanced, they could just tell him, "You're a mutant, Harry." That's the difference. An individual character may have his delusions, but the truth is entirely different, Arthur C. Clarke's law notwithstanding. If you slap that Dr. Strange in a device clearly designated 'mutant power inhibitor', he's hosed, whereas the standard Marvel Dr. Strange would be unaffected.

 

Then again so would the standard Marvel Dr. Richards.

[Alverant]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

It's traditional in these timelines not to touch on Christ; too much of a chance of offending Christian players and readers' date=' even done with the best of intentions.[/quote']

 

I remember in GURPS Supers they suggested most of the famous people in history were mutants. Christ was one of them and so was Galileo and Sun Tzu if memory serves. There was some controversy about that. Personally I would explain it as Disguise 19- mundane skill and leave it at that.

[McCoy]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

I don't know anything about the Watchmen' date=' [/quote']

Highly recomended. It was a 12 issue limited series in 1986 through 87. The trade paperback is still in print, 20 years later. THAT'S how good it is.

 

It follows a, well, non-group of constumed adventurers who are pretty iron age in tone, and flashes back to their Golden Age predicessors, The Minutemen. The group is never known as the Watchmen, the title is from Juvenal, sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes, "But who will watch the watchmen?"

 

The thing that brought it up in this context was that there was no magic, no mutants, one psychic who if this had been a game would have been an NPC, and a rumored alien invasion turned out to be a hoax. The characters are gifted athletes, martial artists, and gadgeteers, more Batman and Iron Man than Superman or Spiderman.

 

The one exception is Dr. Manhattan, who basically gained a Cosmic VPP in a lab accident.

 

Again, while not exactly what you are planning, you might look at it for some inspiration or a diffent sort of superhero universe. Or you might look at it because it is the best superhero story ever written, period, and well worth your time.

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Highly recomended. It was a 12 issue limited series in 1986 through 87. The trade paperback is still in print, 20 years later. THAT'S how good it is.

 

It follows a, well, non-group of constumed adventurers who are pretty iron age in tone, and flashes back to their Golden Age predicessors, The Minutemen. The group is never known as the Watchmen, the title is from Juvenal, sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes, "But who will watch the watchmen?"

 

The thing that brought it up in this context was that there was no magic, no mutants, one psychic who if this had been a game would have been an NPC, and a rumored alien invasion turned out to be a hoax. The characters are gifted athletes, martial artists, and gadgeteers, more Batman and Iron Man than Superman or Spiderman.

 

The one exception is Dr. Manhattan, who basically gained a Cosmic VPP in a lab accident.

 

Again, while not exactly what you are planning, you might look at it for some inspiration or a diffent sort of superhero universe. Or you might look at it because it is the best superhero story ever written, period, and well worth your time.

 

And I'm praying they get the movie right. Though, from what I've seen so far, it's pretty spot-on. If it's half as good as the books, I'll be happy.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

The Marvel Universe Dr. Strange ultimately gets his powers from genetic manipulation performed by the Celestials' date=' just like every other Marvel Mystic, and indeed like every Marvel Mutant, Eternal, Inhuman, Deviant, or Mutate. The gods are, of course, aliens. See Earth X. [/quote']

 

Huh? Unless they've done some massive retconning while I wasn't looking (admittedly, a possibility), Strange was just a normal guy who learned magic, he had no abnormal genetics. He has no powers, he just learned magic. That wouldn't work in the game world, because powers cannot be taught; no genetic twist, no powers. You can't teach psionics, even if you call it magic unless the target happens to be a mutant and happens to awaken during the training and that mutation happens to be psi-potential. Not something conducive to founding a centuries-old mystic tradition, when it simply doesn't work.

 

I'm not sure why we aren't understanding each other here.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

It follows a' date=' well, non-group of constumed adventurers who are pretty iron age in tone,[/quote']

 

This, in and of itself, is sufficient reason for me to know I won't like it. Looking at the Wikipedia entry, it looks very heavy and depressing ... not my thing.

[Certified]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Huh? Unless they've done some massive retconning while I wasn't looking (admittedly, a possibility), Strange was just a normal guy who learned magic, he had no abnormal genetics. He has no powers, he just learned magic. That wouldn't work in the game world, because powers cannot be taught; no genetic twist, no powers. You can't teach psionics, even if you call it magic unless the target happens to be a mutant and happens to awaken during the training and that mutation happens to be psi-potential. Not something conducive to founding a centuries-old mystic tradition, when it simply doesn't work.

 

I'm not sure why we aren't understanding each other here.

 

Okay, so I'm not having any luck finding it but the Celestials place an embryo inside the earth thing, there is a What If with a second short at the end where the Celestials come to earth creating the eternals and the deviants (I think) they also alter the genetic structure of what would become man . I wish I could tell you what issue it was but I think this is what they expanded on when developing Earth-X.

[Certified]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

And now it's time for the super geek moment...

 

What If #23 (October 1080)

What if the Hulk had become a barbarian?

 

After the main story you have an Untold Tales of the Marvel Universe: The First Celestial Host.

 

Sorry had to dig through the old comics collection for that one.

[OddHat]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Huh? Unless they've done some massive retconning while I wasn't looking (admittedly, a possibility), Strange was just a normal guy who learned magic, he had no abnormal genetics. He has no powers, he just learned magic. That wouldn't work in the game world, because powers cannot be taught; no genetic twist, no powers. You can't teach psionics, even if you call it magic unless the target happens to be a mutant and happens to awaken during the training and that mutation happens to be psi-potential. Not something conducive to founding a centuries-old mystic tradition, when it simply doesn't work.

 

I'm not sure why we aren't understanding each other here.

 

I understand your campaign setting. It's a single source setting, which is all puppies and kittens.

 

Earth X is an Alternate Future Marvel Miniseries (one of three) that brings together ideas in Marvel that have been floating around since Kirby. All Superpowers, including the ability to use Magic, are ultimately from the same source; Celestial modification of Human genetic material. Magic is just one name for the discipline that lets someone like Dr. Strange tap into the same powers as Professor X or Phoenix, as well as borrow power from extradimensional entities and the world around him. If he didn't have the genetic potential to manage it, he couldn't use it at all.

 

My comment that "Psionics are magic in a new bottle" is a straight observation, looking at both literature and the 19th Century spiritualist movement, which led directly to the 20th Century New Age movement and shaped the jargon and business of magic (Crystal Shops, "Occult" books, etc) of today. It doesn't apply only to your campaign (where reality works exactly as you like). The distinct separation between Psionics (magic with technobable), Magic, and Miracles is very recent historically, and not reliably observed outside of gaming.

 

In my own campaigns, I consider "Magic" to be a form of training for psionics, just as Karate, Gymnastics and Dance are training for muscles, bones, tendons and the nervous system. If you're not naturally gifted, all the training in the world won't make you a great dancer or martial artist (though you can become passable); if he doesn't have some natural psionic ability, all the training in the world can't make a character in my campaign into a great mage (though most people could, with commitment and time, learn a few minor tricks). Not insisting that anyone else accept that approach, just pointing it out as an option.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

In my own campaigns' date=' I consider "Magic" to be a form of training for psionics, just as Karate, Gymnastics and Dance are training for muscles, bones, tendons and the nervous system. If you're not naturally gifted, all the training in the world won't make you a great dancer of martial artist (though you can become passable); if you don't have some natural psionic ability, all the training in the world can't make a character in my campaign into a great mage (though most people could, with commitment and time, learn a few minor tricks). Not insisting that anyone else accept that, just pointing it out as an option.[/quote']

 

OddHat, You have rendered me redundant, if not completely obsolete. Repped. (Edit: I gotta spread some around, etc. Can somebody get him for me?)

[McCoy]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

This' date=' in and of itself, is sufficient reason for me to know I won't like it. Looking at the Wikipedia entry, it looks very heavy and depressing ... not my thing.[/quote']

Heavy, yes, this is serious literature. Depressing? I didn't find it so. In fact I thought the ending was very upbeat. Can't say more without major spoilers.

[Lucius]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

*sigh*

 

Why is it, every time I think I'm having a new idea, it's been done?

 

Because you don't read.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is verbivorous.

[Lucius]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

King Arthur' date=' if he existed, was just a guy, and Excalibur was just a pigsticker. Merlin, say, was at best a psychic, at worst merely a charlatan. [/quote']

 

Mind you, my scholarship is second hand, but -

 

It is my understanding that Merlin's story arose in a completely different part of Britain than Arthur's, and is of later date. Lancelot was originally from France, and a seperate character until his story was merged with Arthur's.

 

Merlin was a soothsayer before he was a wizard, and the earliest stories have him surviving a battle in which the carnage was so terrible it drove him mad, and in his madness he began to utter prophecy. So, for you, just an extreme case of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

This is not a palindromedary tagline.

[nexus]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Do you plan on the PCs being traditional superheroes or more like explorers and investigators that uncover the truth* of things behind the smoke, mirrors and myths?

 

I think the idea has a great deal of potential. For example vampirism and lycanthropy as a disease or a mutation could explain why so many cultures have similar myths about blood drinkers and shape shifters.

 

*and of course a few things they'd rather not know and allot of things that need to stopped.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Do you plan on the PCs being traditional superheroes or more like explorers and investigators that uncover the truth* of things behind the smoke' date=' mirrors and myths? [/quote']

 

That would at least be an element of it, yes. Kind of like how the FF would spend some of their time just ... exploring, in addition to villain fighting (though they'd frequently find plenty of things to fight during the explorations, too).

 

I'm not sure how to do this without time travel, though ...

[OddHat]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

That would at least be an element of it, yes. Kind of like how the FF would spend some of their time just ... exploring, in addition to villain fighting (though they'd frequently find plenty of things to fight during the explorations, too).

 

I'm not sure how to do this without time travel, though ...

 

Let the PCs run into other groups intent on uncovering the Secret History, then have them look through the evidence the other guys have gathered. A few run ins with immortals can be fun as well. As a bonus, you can have some fun designing and printing out some of the newspaper articles, maps, pictures etc that they uncover.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Let the PCs run into other groups intent on uncovering the Secret History' date=' then have them look through the evidence the other guys have gathered. A few run ins with immortals can be fun as well. As a bonus, you can have some fun designing and printing out some of the newspaper articles, maps, pictures etc that they uncover.[/quote']

 

Good thinking. Maybe they're trying to get genetic samples off a lot of historical/mythical supers, where feasible, to create a single (supposedly) unstoppable superbeing.

[nexus]

Re: Every Myth Is Not True

 

Good thinking. Maybe they're trying to get genetic samples off a lot of historical/mythical supers' date=' where feasible, to create a single (supposedly) unstoppable superbeing.[/quote']

 

Cool, reminds me of the origin of Serpentor in GI Joe.