Weapons with SPD scores?

[Pattern Ghost]

Ok, was just thinking about emulating a real life LASER type weapon. One limitation I thought of was a recharge time. Basically, the weapon can only be cycled once every X seconds.

 

The obvious way to model this is to give the weapon a limitation based on SPD. For example, a weapon that can cycle once every six seconds would have a 2 SPD, once every 6 seconds, a 3 SPD every 4 seconds, etc. So, a SPD 4 character could only make 2 or 3 attacks per turn, with said weapon.

If the weapon is fired on one of the hero's phases, the delay is just based on the next available segment, rather than the speed chart. For example, A speed five character fires a 3 SPD weapon on phase 8, his next available shot would be on phase 12.

 

I know we have a lot of folks who like modelling weapons, so there's a good chance this has been done. If so, how'd you do it?

 

I guess my main question is how to cost it out. Obviously, if the SPD of the weapon is the same as the character's SPD, it's not worth anything. Perhaps going down at a rate of -1/4 per -1 SPD than the character would be a good basis?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Ok, was just thinking about emulating a real life LASER type weapon. One limitation I thought of was a recharge time. Basically, the weapon can only be cycled once every X seconds.

 

The obvious way to model this is to give the weapon a limitation based on SPD. For example, a weapon that can cycle once every six seconds would have a 2 SPD, once every 6 seconds, a 3 SPD every 4 seconds, etc. So, a SPD 4 character could only make 2 or 3 attacks per turn, with said weapon.

If the weapon is fired on one of the hero's phases, the delay is just based on the next available segment, rather than the speed chart. For example, A speed five character fires a 3 SPD weapon on phase 8, his next available shot would be on phase 12.

 

I know we have a lot of folks who like modelling weapons, so there's a good chance this has been done. If so, how'd you do it?

 

I guess my main question is how to cost it out. Obviously, if the SPD of the weapon is the same as the character's SPD, it's not worth anything. Perhaps going down at a rate of -1/4 per -1 SPD than the character would be a good basis?

 

Hate to ask. Why not just give it Extra Time (as Recharge Time) and call it good? So you fire, it has "Extra Time" before it can be fired again. Done. Is there a reason that's been discarded?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Another option might be 1 Recoverable Charge, where the defined way of recovering the Charge is "Wait 'x' seconds." For balance purposes, the GM may want to adjust the value of the Limitation, since that's likely easier/sooner than the conditions for most charge recoveries...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Hate to ask. Why not just give it Extra Time (as Recharge Time) and call it good? So you fire' date=' it has "Extra Time" before it can be fired again. Done. Is there a reason that's been discarded?[/quote']

 

Because that means you can't launch any other attacks while it is activating, according to the rules.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Another option might be 1 Recoverable Charge' date=' where the defined way of recovering the Charge is "Wait 'x' seconds." For balance purposes, the GM may want to adjust the value of the Limitation, since that's likely easier/sooner than the conditions for most charge recoveries...[/quote']

 

...quite a lot more, normally recovery is not guaranteed and it is difficult to recover charges in combat.

 

You can do this with an END Reserve, if you only want to be able to fire once per turn, but it always seems frankly wrong to have to pay more points to limit yourself.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Ok, was just thinking about emulating a real life LASER type weapon. One limitation I thought of was a recharge time. Basically, the weapon can only be cycled once every X seconds.

 

The obvious way to model this is to give the weapon a limitation based on SPD. For example, a weapon that can cycle once every six seconds would have a 2 SPD, once every 6 seconds, a 3 SPD every 4 seconds, etc. So, a SPD 4 character could only make 2 or 3 attacks per turn, with said weapon.

If the weapon is fired on one of the hero's phases, the delay is just based on the next available segment, rather than the speed chart. For example, A speed five character fires a 3 SPD weapon on phase 8, his next available shot would be on phase 12.

 

I know we have a lot of folks who like modelling weapons, so there's a good chance this has been done. If so, how'd you do it?

 

I guess my main question is how to cost it out. Obviously, if the SPD of the weapon is the same as the character's SPD, it's not worth anything. Perhaps going down at a rate of -1/4 per -1 SPD than the character would be a good basis?

 

This is going to be a bit awkward to do in practice, and pretty easily circumvented (for 5 points you can have 2 laser guns and fire them on alternate phases. Mind you that gets round anything like that). Giving a weapon a SPD means that it will cost different amounts depending on who is holding it as the amount of limitation will depend on the speed of the base character.

 

Maybe this is one for 6th ED, but as a 'limited power' I'd say 'Can only be fired every other phase' would be worth -1/4 or -1/2, and 'Can only be fired every turn' would be worth -1/2 to -1, but I'd need to play test it.

 

TECHNICALLY only being able to use a power half the time (i.e. every other phase) should be worth -1, but given that hardly anyone only has a single attack, it isn't.

[Vondy]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Just slap a custom limitation onto it defined as "X time to recharge between shots," give it the same value as the equivalent Extra-Time increment value, and call it a day. We already have the intentionally vague "limited power" limitation, and their is a tradition of custom limitations popping up in Hero books. This avoids handwaving extant restrictions, or tortuous applications of rules that fit like O.J.s glove. If the rule does not fit, customize it!

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

This is going to be a bit awkward to do in practice' date=' and pretty easily circumvented (for 5 points you can have 2 laser guns and fire them on alternate phases. Mind you that gets round anything like that).[/quote']

 

You know, that rule never occurred to me. The second I read it in 5th, I said "Horribly stupid, broken, rule," then wiped it from my mind.

 

 

Giving a weapon a SPD means that it will cost different amounts depending on who is holding it as the amount of limitation will depend on the speed of the base character.

 

If I was building it as heroic equipment, this would be very true. This is more for building stuff paid for by character points.

 

Maybe this is one for 6th ED, but as a 'limited power' I'd say 'Can only be fired every other phase' would be worth -1/4 or -1/2, and 'Can only be fired every turn' would be worth -1/2 to -1, but I'd need to play test it.

 

TECHNICALLY only being able to use a power half the time (i.e. every other phase) should be worth -1, but given that hardly anyone only has a single attack, it isn't.

 

I don't think it needs a new advantage, just trying to hash out what it'd be worth as a custom limitation under Limited Power.

 

The idea was to build a more or less realistic weapon (no knockback, beam, no range penalty, slow to recharge laser) for either a gadget pool choice or as an accessory for a character with a more street level background. In other words, a weapon in a supers world, that's not super tech level.

[sbarron]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

I don't think it needs a new advantage' date=' just trying to hash out what it'd be worth as a custom limitation under Limited Power.[/quote']I'd just call it "5 segments to recharge." Giving the gun its own SPD seems to excessively complicate things. For a supers game, I'd call it a flat (-1). For a heroic game, I'd call it (-1/2). Relative SPD of average character being the primary difference.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

*blinks* Wait a second. First off, it's going to be 0 END for the user. Second, why NOT use an END reserve? "I can fire twice a Turn -- quickly or not, doesn't matter, but I can fire ONLY twice a Turn. Then the batteries need to recharge themselves." END Reserve, equal to twice (or three times, or whatever) the END cost for the Power, and then a REC on the Reserve equal to the reserve, to represent that it recharges exactly that fast, max.

 

Laser Pistol: (Total: 46 Active Cost, 23 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6-1 (vs. ED), Penetrating (+1/2) (37 Active Points); OAF (-1), -1 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-1/4), Beam (-1/4) (uses END Reserve) (Real Cost: 15) plus Endurance Reserve (8 END, 8 REC) Reserve: (9 Active Points); OAF (-1), Usable Only By Laser Pistol (Same Item; -1/2) (Real Cost: 8)

 

You can fire it twice, and twice only, per Turn.

[gojira]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Just slap a custom limitation onto it defined as "X time to recharge between shots' date='" give it the same value as the equivalent Extra-Time increment value, and call it a day. We already have the intentionally vague "limited power" limitation, and their is a tradition of custom limitations popping up in Hero books. This avoids handwaving extant restrictions, or tortuous applications of rules that fit like O.J.s glove. If the rule does not fit, customize it![/quote']

 

That's too easy. I think we could come up with something that used EDM, Transform, Trigger, Telekinesis, Indirect, Self Only, Always On, Side Effect, and about 1/3 of the other Limitations in the rule book, and wouldn't even take an entire page for that one power. Null sweat, chummer!

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

For a supers game' date=' I'd call it a flat (-1).[/quote']Only being able to use a Power 4 times in a day is a -1 Limitation. A Power that could be used every 5 Segments could be used 17,280 times in a day. I have a hard time seeing those as equally limiting.

[sbarron]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

I looked at it the other way. A supers character will only be able to use this power every other or maybe every third phase. So, half the time its not available (-1). I admit I cannot reconcile the difference other than through GM fiat.

 

Fortunately, when addressing issues like this, I'm not afraid to use 2 guns, each on alternating phases.

[CTaylor]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

I like the idea of weapons with a maximum speed allowed. That makes them limited: you could have a titanic axe of doom, but it's slow, so you can only use it at speed 3, maximum. Great idea for a limitation, but I'd probably give it at most 1/4 per speed below 5; few characters using such an item would have higher than 4 speed anyway.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Rather than giving weapons a maximum SPD, another option might be to give them Combat Order Penalty (COP). The higher the COP, the slower the weapon is. Then you subtract the COP from your DEX when determining the Combat Order. For example, if a Great Axe had a COP of 13, then a DEX 18 character wielding a Great Axe would go at DEX 5 in the Combat Order, not DEX 18. For additional complexity/flavor, perhaps you could allow STR (in excess of the STR Min) to lower the COP (since someone who could swing a Great Axe easily might be able to attack faster with it than someone who struggles to swing it at all, etc.)

[Maur]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

Sounds like part of the Rifts initiative system. Roll init and modify by the speed of the spell/weapon you intend to use that round. Slower weapons make you act later in the round.

[CTaylor]

Re: Weapons with SPD scores?

 

I worked up a system that lowered DEX (only to see what order you go in combat) based on the weapon size and weight, but it was a huge, huge headache and I dropped it in short order. Swapping around the order of combat with the phase system each time someone changes weapons is just not fun.