Am I explaining genetics correctly?

[matrix3]

I've been thinking about a new homebrew campaign world, where it would basically be the modern world, with the only powers being variations of Telepathy and Telekinesis. I've been thinking of making TK male-only and TP female-only.

 

I'm trying to remember my high school genetics to explain the difference. Could the TK need a recessive gene that only resides on the Y chromosome, making it male only, and the telepathy require two recessive genes to activate the telepathic powers, and these only reside on the X chromosome, making it female-only? This would then make Telekinesis much more common, since it only required one recessive gene, from the father, right? And, is it possible that a person have an XXY configuration? I seem to remember this is the cause of Down's Syndrome, but I might be mistaken.

 

Thanks for any feedback.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

Essentially, you are, yes. With XXY it is possible to have a completely functional human being -- expressed as male, generally.

 

What I'd suggest is that the X recessive has the 'base power' that, when reinforced with another X-recessive, gets you the telepathic female. Or, when reinforced with the Y-recessive, gets you the telekinetic male. An 'active' male and an 'active' female will thus ALWAYS result in 'active' children; 'carriers' would be people with only one trait, while completely inactive people would have no traits.

 

Go get your Mendel charts!!

[matrix3]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

Essentially, you are, yes. With XXY it is possible to have a completely functional human being -- expressed as male, generally.

 

What I'd suggest is that the X recessive has the 'base power' that, when reinforced with another X-recessive, gets you the telepathic female. Or, when reinforced with the Y-recessive, gets you the telekinetic male. An 'active' male and an 'active' female will thus ALWAYS result in 'active' children; 'carriers' would be people with only one trait, while completely inactive people would have no traits.

 

Go get your Mendel charts!!

 

That's a good idea, to have the recessive X chromosome be a "key", to combine with either another X or a Y.

 

Yeah, I should just google some Mendel charts. I was thinking that it could be a series of recessive genes, so that even two powered parents don't always beget a powered child.

 

I was also thinking about just what other mental powers an XXY will have beyond Telepathy and Telekinesis...

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

XXY is Klinefelter's Syndrome. For your genetic patterning, I'd go with what Wyrm says.

 

It may also be interesting to note what part of the X chromosome the gene in question is on. If it's on the "upper" part, then it would need a corresponding gene on the Y chromosome to work; but if it's on the "lower" part, then every male with that gene will have the trait, much like male pattern baldness or (I think) hemophilia.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

That's a good idea, to have the recessive X chromosome be a "key", to combine with either another X or a Y.

 

Yeah, I should just google some Mendel charts. I was thinking that it could be a series of recessive genes, so that even two powered parents don't always beget a powered child.

 

I was also thinking about just what other mental powers an XXY will have beyond Telepathy and Telekinesis...

 

If you make it a series, then you're looking at something that's almost never going to be in effect. Just ... first figure out how common powers are. 1:100? 1:10,000? Literally one in a million? (Which would make for 5,000 worldwide, total, at a world population of 5 billion.) And of course, not all those are going to be active; it IS a recessive, and may require 'activation'.

 

As for the 'what other powers' -- don't worry about it, or else very much worry about it; virtually all the powers in the book can be built with either a TK or TP 'special effect'. A very powerful XXY would be the high-end 'Jean Grey' of your world -- TP for mental power drains/suppressions, TK for physical ones, EBs, KAs, flight, mind control, yadda yadda. Their limits are your limits.

[matrix3]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

I am planning on making it 1 in a ~100,000, but only 10% are strong enough to realize they have a power of some sort and exercise it. For the other 90%, it will be a latent or "only under stress" situation, and of the 5000 that know they have power, almost all will be controlled by the a government in some way. One of the gaming group once cross-dressed and played a woman, but usually they are all guys, so I expect they will think that since I only offer them TK, they will think everybody has TK -- until a female government agent messes with their minds.

[Certified]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

Sounds like an interesting premise and depending on how far you let the players take their powers could be an interesting mental exercise in justifying their powers.

 

XXY: With the ratios presented above I doubt this would come up in game play unless you're looking at a story around it. In that case here would be my suggestions:

 

The XXY would likely exhibit traits of the dominate gender, so for the most part male. However, they may have minor abilities of the other gender. Another possibility is that they exhibit powers at a high level of both genders but cannot control them, as the genetic marker that allows the subject to control their abilities is being confused by the flood of information. In game terms they may have a Cosmic VPP with Uncontrollable and a Trigger like emotional state/ fight or flight response.

 

Hope this helps.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

That's an interesting take on the XXY conundrum.

 

Conversely, if there's 5000 total with an active power, and Klinefelter's strikes 1 in 500 -- males, yes, but you could argue that it'd be both -- then you'd have 5 (if just taking from the 2500 males) or 10 (if taking from both) of those 5000 being XXY. They could essentially be the 'mega-nuke' for the countries that have them. For five, say, one in the US, one in Russia (or France/Germany/England), one in China, one in South America, and one in Africa.

 

If they WERE seriously powerful -- equal to any two or three 'normal Powers' combined -- that'd make them both prime tools and targets. Can you imagine the one in Africa taking over half a dozen Central African countries and building his own empire? Or the one in South America being hired by a drug cartel, then taking one -- then all of them -- over? Again, limits are the GM's basis, but in a game where all the players are one or the other, after they get picked up by the government, it could be interesting/amazing for them to be told of these 'secure operatives' and have to go try and 'acquire' a new one that's emerging.

 

Considering Klinefelter's, though, very low breeding rate for that type...

[Certified]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

Based on population density China may likely have two or three of these empowered XXY peoples. It may be interesting to see them on opposite sides like one being a nationalist the other a Humans Rights Activist. Allies like Russia and the US being asked to assist puts them into very interesting political space.

[Cancer]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

There could be a TP suppressor gene on the Y, as well.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

Actually, China would have 1 (population over 1 billion, under 1.5), India would have 1 (same) ... I dunno about the rest. But those two would/should have one each, going purely by population statistics.

[Certified]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

Actually' date=' China would have 1 (population over 1 billion, under 1.5), India would have 1 (same) ... I dunno about the rest. But those two would/should have one each, going purely by population statistics.[/quote']

 

I thought China had a disproportionate number of males to females. Although I suppose at this high a level it would have to be like three to one.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

Essentially, yes. You STILL only have 1.3 billion people. (Or whatever). Granted, that means 1,300 Psyches...

[matrix3]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

According to what I Googled, including this Wikipedia page, the male:female ratio in China is around 1.13 to 1.2, so a lot more Teeks than Teeps. As to XXY, I was already thinking about how to use them in the game. The U.S. will have some shadowy programs going on, but will still be one of the most free places in the world, which means a lot of powers will seek asylum here. This will skew the normal ratio, and I think it will mean the U.S. will have two XXY's(one came from India) while China has one, the whole continent of Africa has one, and Switzerland has one(technically, though he originally escaped from Russia and currently moves throughout Europe working with several governments).

 

I was already thinking of a plotline involving an attempt to use IVF to create an XXY. It technically wouldn't even require genetic engineering, just some micro needles to force two X's and a Y chromosome into an egg, right?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

The only problem I'm seeing so far is that XXY are exclusively male, at least according to the Wikipedia article on Klinefelter's. (It's that pesky Y chromosome, no doubt.)

[matrix3]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

The only problem I'm seeing so far is that XXY are exclusively male' date=' at least according to the Wikipedia article on Klinefelter's. (It's that pesky Y chromosome, no doubt.)[/quote']

 

 

Technically, yes, but with a high degree of androgyny and low testosterone, one or more might identify as female, and with the full suite of mental powers, who would argue?

[transmetahuman]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

As for the 'what other powers' -- don't worry about it' date=' or else very much worry about it; virtually all the powers in the book can be built with either a TK or TP 'special effect'.[/quote']Thinking about this aspect specifically... If you do want to be able to simulate a very wide variety of powers, it would help a lot if the male tekes could potentially access limited forms of extra-sensory perception. Lots of effects just can't be easily justified if the teke has to manipulate everything with only his own mundane senses.

 

Maybe the X-linked gene expresses itself with parasenses - it enables males to latch on to stuff with the Y-linked teke, but when reinforced in the XX females it makes for much more powerful parasensory abilities, including sensing thoughts and emotions? That kind of has a whole yin-yang active/passive thing going for it, too. Though of course full telepathy has active elements to it, too, so that's maybe not a good comparison.

[matrix3]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

Thinking about this aspect specifically... If you do want to be able to simulate a very wide variety of powers, it would help a lot if the male tekes could potentially access limited forms of extra-sensory perception. Lots of effects just can't be easily justified if the teke has to manipulate everything with only his own mundane senses.

 

Maybe the X-linked gene expresses itself with parasenses - it enables males to latch on to stuff with the Y-linked teke, but when reinforced in the XX females it makes for much more powerful parasensory abilities, including sensing thoughts and emotions? That kind of has a whole yin-yang active/passive thing going for it, too. Though of course full telepathy has active elements to it, too, so that's maybe not a good comparison.

 

This is a good idea, and would allow both male and female characters to have some degree of sensory powers. I wasn't going to require enhanced senses to use TK, though.

[transmetahuman]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

This is a good idea' date=' and would allow both male and female characters to have some degree of sensory powers. I wasn't going to require enhanced senses to use TK, though.[/quote']I didn't mean for the tekes to be required to have any enhanced senses in the game power sense. If you want the Y-linked teke trait to be useless without the X-linked "parasenses" trait, though, you can just say that even regular Telekinesis involves a parasensory "connection" (which doesn't give any extra Powers in game terms) with whatever they're manipulating. A person with a single X-linked gene, not reinforced by another one or by a Y-linked gene, might technically have some potential for very weak parasenses, or you could just say that the manifestation is so weak without Y-linked teke to "reach out" with it that the people who have it don't even realize it. A man with just the Y-linked gene has no "feedback", so never learns how to use his teke (or even that he has it) - but might be justification for poltergeist phenomena, if you like.

 

This has the side effect of making stuff like pyro- and cryokinesis easier to justify (you don't have to see the individual molecules you're slowing or speeding up), and lets certain specialized tekes justify things like Force Fields (you don't need to see the air molecules you're making the barrier with, or the attacks from behind that you're deflecting), Transform (was Jean Grey making insane Chemistry rolls when she transmuted her spandex costume into cotton/silk/whatever dresses? no, of course not - she just "knew" how to do it), or "squeeze his heart" NND attacks.

[McCoy]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

What do you want the pattern to be? What are the chances of a son or daughter of a TK or TP having the power?

 

My first thought was your dominant T allele (on the X chromosome) would supress the power, the recessive t allele carries the power. Thus, a TT woman is normal, a Tt woman appears normal, but half her daughters will be carriers, half her soms would have the power. A TY male would be normal, an tY would be a telekinetic, none of his sons would have the power, half of his daughters would be carriers. The only way to get the telepath would be for a tY male telekinetic to have a daughter with a heterozygous Ty woman, or a homozygous tt telepathic woman.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

I was also thinking about just what other mental powers an XXY will have beyond Telepathy and Telekinesis...

 

Combo TK/Telepathy powers, like...

 

The ability to telekinetically move brains? (ewwwww....)

 

Mind Control? (physically controlling nervous system)

 

Ego Attack? (telekinetically activating pain receptors)

 

Making telekinetic force-construct representations of thoughts?

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

What do you want the pattern to be? What are the chances of a son or daughter of a TK or TP having the power?

 

My first thought was your dominant T allele (on the X chromosome) would supress the power, the recessive t allele carries the power. Thus, a TT woman is normal ...

 

The Y-expressed gene is theoretically recessive too, but obviously wouldn't ever matter. However, this means that you have three types of males -- XY (mundane), xY or Xy (carriers, one of the trigger, one of the male telekinetic), and xy actives. An xY carrier male could still have a telepathic xx daughter with an Xx carrier female. Presumably, either recessive x allele is a carrier, and when it's reinforced (xx) it's telepathic.

 

The only way you'd get the xxy (mentallist) would be with at least one fully active partner -- carrier woman and a full-telekinetic man (xX and xy), or active woman and telekinetic-carrier male (xx and Xy). Obviously, the 'both fully active' xx and xy would have the greatest chance.

[Roth]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

And conversely some research on TK that I have read has said (and this was years ago in a book whose title I cannot remember) that girls going through puberty have a a chance of producing the poltergeist effect because of latent psychokinesis abilities.

 

Remember TK is just one variant of PK

[Markdoc]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

I was already thinking of a plotline involving an attempt to use IVF to create an XXY. It technically wouldn't even require genetic engineering' date=' just some micro needles to force two X's and a Y chromosome into an egg, right?[/quote']

 

That is the basic principle, but in practice, it needs to be more sophisticated than that . Microinjection would simply lead to a dysfunctional cell which which would die. However, in such a world, I have no doubt that people would work on the problem and theoretically, it could be done.

 

If it were me, though, I'd simply clone out the genes responsible and insert them into a single, normal chromosome (or even better, a retrovirus), to try and make a person with both sets of powers but a normal chromosome count. That also offers the possibility of using a retrovirus over-expressing the genes and then transplanting them into a normal adult to generate a psychic "at will", so to speak. If the level of gene expression is important you might even be able to engineer "super-psychics" this way - though doubtless there'd be some side effects

 

cheers, Mark

[matrix3]

Re: Am I explaining genetics correctly?

 

That is the basic principle' date=' but in practice, it needs to be more sophisticated than that . Microinjection would simply lead to a dysfunctional cell which which would die. However, in such a world, I have no doubt that people would work on the problem and theoretically, it could be done.[/quote']

 

Yeah, it wouldn't really be that simple, but nothing is as simple as it is in a comic/RPG.

 

If it were me, though, I'd simply clone out the genes responsible and insert them into a single, normal chromosome (or even better, a retrovirus), to try and make a person with both sets of powers but a normal chromosome count. That also offers the possibility of using a retrovirus over-expressing the genes and then transplanting them into a normal adult to generate a psychic "at will", so to speak. If the level of gene expression is important you might even be able to engineer "super-psychics" this way - though doubtless there'd be some side effects

 

cheers, Mark

 

 

That retrovirus is perfect for the classic "make everybody a mentalist" type of situation--either by a mentalist to resist being singled out (like Magneto's big plan in the first X-Men movie) or by a misguided mentalist or mundane to "help everybody achieve their potential," whether or not they want the help.