Ben 10: Alien Force

[bubba smith]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

I am. I'm still curious as to why the Omnitrix hasn't hosed Ben over with a wrong form yet; I'm wondering if that will happen at all now.

 

BTW, Echo Echo is going to be one expensive little SoB.

if i recall the omnitrix was damaged when max freed ben fom energized shackles in the original series that caused the omnitrix to give ben the wrong forms that damage might have been repaired in the secrets of the omnitrix movie

[caris]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

I am

 

They made some significant alterations to the setting and still haven't explained a lot of things. Hopefully that means the payoff will be worth it. They've also confirmed/nixed some of my long standing theories.

 

Ben's new alien forms have grown on me considerably, though I still wish that more of them wore pants I'm impressed with the fact the Dee Bradley Baker is doing ALL the voices for them... always knew the guy was versatile but damn...

 

The romance angles have been very hit or miss

 

Haven't had much time to format my writeups for the board, but I've got a bunch of stuff in HD. I'll try to get what I have posted up this week. Still working out the specifics of a few powers, like the Omnitrix's "DNA Repair" function and how all the features of the Plumbers Badges work.

 

I've been watching it, too. It hasn't been as working as well for me. It is suffering from the "we need new characters, so that we can sell more toys" syndrome. I also don't like what was done with Ben's alien forms from the previous series.

 

Introducing the change to Gwen that they fleshed out with last Saturday's episode came too late in the series for my tastes. That also goes for what are basically all the related changes done to Max and the Plumbers.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

I'm still curious as to why the Omnitrix hasn't hosed Ben over with a wrong form yet; I'm wondering if that will happen at all now.

 

Probably because they are trying to get away from that gag. Ben is more mature now and I think they want to show him using his powers in a more competent manner. Sadly, Ben is still a bit of a moron about a lot of things...

 

But overall, it works differently now. It doesn't time out after ten minutes. Instead, Ben changes back at will (or when he's knocked out). He can change multiple times without needing to recharge, though so far he always shifts to human form before doing so. If he changes too many times in a short period, then the Omnitrix runs out of juice and needs to recharge. Not actually clear if it's supposed to take more energy to change or if he only has so much "fuel" per day.

 

But they have done the accidental change. Once. First time Ben used Brainstorm in fact. He had a different alien selected, then the dial got jostled/the Omnitrix picked a different form. Of course, he would have known that if he had looked down before punching it

 

if i recall the omnitrix was damaged when max freed ben fom energized shackles in the original series that caused the omnitrix to give ben the wrong forms that damage might have been repaired in the secrets of the omnitrix movie

 

It was doing that before the "Secrets" episode though.

 

My long standing theory was that the Omnitrix "malfunctioned" because it was trying to teach and protect Ben. This theory has been reinforced in my mind by the reveal that Azmuth used it to view Ben's adventures and by the fact the Omnitrix talks now.

 

I've been watching it, too. It hasn't been as working as well for me. It is suffering from the "we need new characters, so that we can sell more toys" syndrome. I also don't like what was done with Ben's alien forms from the previous series.

 

Introducing the change to Gwen that they fleshed out with last Saturday's episode came too late in the series for my tastes. That also goes for what are basically all the related changes done to Max and the Plumbers.

 

What was done with Ben's previous forms? They are presumably still in the database, just locked away for now.

 

The Omnitrix was probably just ticked that he used the same 20 odd forms for that one summer 5 years ago. The device is, after all, programmed to promote understanding across the galaxy by allowing the Omnitrix Master to walk in the "shoes" of other races... Ok, I don't know, I'm just hoping they touch on the reason for the recalibration at some point. The damn thing talks now! Ben should ask Omnitrix for the instructions...

 

The changes/retcons/explainations have been extremely hit or miss with me.

 

- I don't like that the Omnitrix looks like a Plumbers Badge. There were times in the old series that aliens seemed to recognize it just by the dial, yet apparently that dial looks like the badge of a galactic police officer. This would have been fine if anyone in the old series had mistaken Ben for a Plumber at some point.

 

- The "there is no magic" and "all supers are descended from aliens" thing bugs me. I have no problem with shared origin worlds, it just doesn't quite fit in with the old series. But I can understand their desire to focus on the scifi elements of the series.

 

- Frank Tennyson knew about his mom and dad. Somehow, Carl didn't? I know "Goodbye and Good Riddance" is an alternate earth story, but Race Against Time is supposed to be cannon and Ben's dad was pretty clueless there as I recall.

 

- The changes to Detrovites just seemed kinda random. I always thought Technorg was a cyborg, not a pilot. Speaking of, I wonder if Kevin killing him will ever be mentioned...

[caris]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

What was done with Ben's previous forms? They are presumably still in the database' date=' just locked away for now.[/quote']

 

"We need to sell new toys, so we, the writers/producers, won't let Ben use the old forms and instead focus on these new forms. After all the previous forms are all over a year old now, and therefore aren't cool and hip any more." Was the initial vibe I got. I still have that vibe, but a willingness to bring them back if they can get some sort of "twist" to make them cool again added in after seeing the episodes with the "Upgrade" and "Heatblasts" brought back.

 

Part of this is obviously just me being cynical, but by leaving off the explanation they are only agravating that perception for me.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

I can understand where you are coming from, but it doesn't make a lot of sense from a marketing perspective. Don't get me wrong, CN wants to sell merchandise. Ben 10 makes money for them hand over fist since they basically own the whole franchise.

 

It was a major complaint when they introduced the possibility of unlocking hidden forms in season 2. And in season 3, lots of people were irked that the Omnitrix could suddenly absorb alien DNA samples to give Ben new forms.

 

But none of that is a reason to stop letting him use the old forms, especially when you can easily make new versions of those old aliens and people will buy them. Between me and my kids I think we own 5 different versions of Heatblast alone

 

Look at another series: there are nearly 500 Pokemon and yet Pikachu is still a top seller...

[Karmakaze]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

"We need to sell new toys' date=' so we, the writers/producers, won't let Ben use the old forms and instead focus on these new forms. After all the previous forms are all over a year old now, and therefore aren't cool and hip any more." Was the initial vibe I got. I still have that vibe, but a willingness to bring them back if they can get some sort of "twist" to make them cool again added in after seeing the episodes with the "Upgrade" and "Heatblasts" brought back. [/quote']

 

Weirdly, Ben lost all of his previous forms, and is back to the old limit of 10... and yet we're running into members of the species he used to be. It's very odd-feeling.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Well, reseting to 10 also means the title makes more sense

 

10 years old: nope

10 minute time limit: nope

10 aliens (instead of 20+): check!

[nexus]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

I am

 

They made some significant alterations to the setting and still haven't explained a lot of things. Hopefully that means the payoff will be worth it. They've also confirmed/nixed some of my long standing theories.

 

Ben's new alien forms have grown on me considerably, though I still wish that more of them wore pants I'm impressed with the fact the Dee Bradley Baker is doing ALL the voices for them... always knew the guy was versatile but damn...

 

The romance angles have been very hit or miss

 

Haven't had much time to format my writeups for the board, but I've got a bunch of stuff in HD. I'll try to get what I have posted up this week. Still working out the specifics of a few powers, like the Omnitrix's "DNA Repair" function and how all the features of the Plumbers Badges work.

 

No problem, I can understand how projects like can get put in the back burner. I was really enjoying your write up and I'm looking forward to seeing what you cn come up with when time permits.

 

I've been watching it, too. It hasn't been as working as well for me. It is suffering from the "we need new characters, so that we can sell more toys" syndrome. I also don't like what was done with Ben's alien forms from the previous series.

 

I'm all right with the new aliens. They have to make money in the end. The thing that does bother me a little is that many of the new aliens seem like combinations of the old ones. I'd sort of prefer if they went with the idea that forms he used in Ben10 were younger (more or less equivalent to Ben) and he's using more "mature" forms now. Of course that would bring up it's own questions but I think it would mostly only matter to geeks. 

 

Introducing the change to Gwen that they fleshed out with last Saturday's episode came too late in the series for my tastes. That also goes for what are basically all the related changes done to Max and the Plumbers.

 

I'm also a little disappointed that the Ben10,000 episodes are being rendered inconsistent. I think the new "cosmology" is a little more consistent (such as providing an explanation for humans with superpowers which kind of existed in a void in Ben10) but takes away from some of the "future history" episodes which I enjoyed.

 

The changes/retcons/explainations have been extremely hit or miss with me.

 

- I don't like that the Omnitrix looks like a Plumbers Badge. There were times in the old series that aliens seemed to recognize it just by the dial, yet apparently that dial looks like the badge of a galactic police officer. This would have been fine if anyone in the old series had mistaken Ben for a Plumber at some point.

 

Yeah, that seems kind of odd to me too.

 

- The "there is no magic" and "all supers are descended from aliens" thing bugs me. I have no problem with shared origin worlds, it just doesn't quite fit in with the old series. But I can understand their desire to focus on the scifi elements of the series.

 

I'm okay with that except for the conflicts with the Ben10K which I guess are "alternate universe" stories now.

 

- Frank Tennyson knew about his mom and dad. Somehow, Carl didn't? I know "Goodbye and Good Riddance" is an alternate earth story, but Race Against Time is supposed to be cannon and Ben's dad was pretty clueless there as I recall.

 

Goodbye and Good Riddance is an alternate universe? I did not know that. If so I wish it was the other way around. I hated "Race against Time".

[Twilight]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

"We need to sell new toys, so we, the writers/producers, won't let Ben use the old forms and instead focus on these new forms. After all the previous forms are all over a year old now, and therefore aren't cool and hip any more." Was the initial vibe I got. I still have that vibe, but a willingness to bring them back if they can get some sort of "twist" to make them cool again added in after seeing the episodes with the "Upgrade" and "Heatblasts" brought back.

 

Part of this is obviously just me being cynical, but by leaving off the explanation they are only agravating that perception for me.

 

The lack of all the aliens I liked in the original series is part of the reason I'm not terribly eager to see the new show. That and the whole 'he removed the Omnitrix so he could have a normal life' bit. Since when has Ben ever wanted to be normal?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Goodbye and Good Riddance is an alternate universe? I did not know that. If so I wish it was the other way around. I hated "Race against Time".

 

Wasn't a fan of Race Against Time either.

 

But yeah, episodes like Gwen 10 that start with the comic book page introduction are "What If...?" story lines.

 

Ben 10K/Ken 10 is still a possible future. Some indications are that it's less likely since Gwen altered the past by bringing the kids forward in time. But it's been said by the series creators that something that happens during Alien Force is what will drive Ben to turn into Ben 10K.

 

That and the whole 'he removed the Omnitrix so he could have a normal life' bit. Since when has Ben ever wanted to be normal?

 

Yeah, that's a bit of a sticking point for me too. It's one of those things I hope they explain later on, but for now I just have to accept that something changed his mind.

 

That still ignores the fact that Max let one of the most powerful weapons in the universe sit in a shoe box in a kids closet for 5 years...

[nexus]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Wasn't a fan of Race Against Time either.

 

But yeah, episodes like Gwen 10 that start with the comic book page introduction are "What If...?" story lines.

 

That would explain it. I didn't see the comic book opening for that episode.

 

Or maybe we're talking about different episodes. Good Bye and Good Riddance" is the episode where Vl'Gax is finally killed right?

 

Ben 10K/Ken 10 is still a possible future. Some indications are that it's less likely since Gwen altered the past by bringing the kids forward in time. But it's been said by the series creators that something that happens during Alien Force is what will drive Ben to turn into Ben 10K.

 

I was thinking more that Gwen still referred to her powers as "magic" and used magical trapping with them in that future.

 

And something has to happen to turn Kevin back into psycho boy. They really mellowed him out for Alien Force.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Good Bye and Good Riddance" is the episode where Vl'Gax is finally killed right?

 

Yep that's the one.

 

Ben also reveals his secret ID to the whole town, to the point that at the end his teacher excused him from class so that he could go fight Dr Animo.

 

Obviously, that wouldn't quite work with Alien Force.

 

I was thinking more that Gwen still referred to her powers as "magic" and used magical trapping with them in that future.

 

That depends on where they go from here. Gwen can wrap her seemingly cosmic powers in whatever SFX she likes. The Charms of Bazeel may well turn out to be alien artifacts or something.

 

Of course, Future Gwen would also know that she didn't find out about her heritage until she was 15.

 

And something has to happen to turn Kevin back into psycho boy. They really mellowed him out for Alien Force.

 

Yeah, he was was a cold blooded killer before, so this needs more explanation than "some random alien Plumber sacrificed himself for me needlessly" and "Wow, Ben's geeky cousin got hot!".

 

I'm actually more disturbed how quickly Ben and Gwen have grown to trust him considering all the things they know he's capable of...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Re: Plumber's Badges ...

 

I was drawing the (admittedly largely unfounded) conclusion that the Plumbers chose the Omnitrix's 'face' as their emblem, but the Omnitrix itself was (in)famous enough that it would be recognizeable as such to most.

 

Green Hourglass Symbol on wrist: Omnitrix

Green Hourglass Symbol on chest/belt/etc: Plumber

[nexus]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Yep that's the one.

 

Ben also reveals his secret ID to the whole town, to the point that at the end his teacher excused him from class so that he could go fight Dr Animo.

 

Obviously, that wouldn't quite work with Alien Force.

 

A shame, I thought that was a nice wrap up for the series.

 

 

That depends on where they go from here. Gwen can wrap her seemingly cosmic powers in whatever SFX she likes. The Charms of Bazeel may well turn out to be alien artifacts or something. Of course, Future Gwen would also know that she didn't find out about her heritage until she was 15.

 

I guess but it seemed like she (and the show) were really pushing the "magic" angle. It seems odd for her to decide to keep it for what amounts to showmanship particularly when there's an entire (and I assume well known race) that's knows it all bunk* Heck Kevin knew it was bunk.

 

And her powers in the original show did seem more magical where now her abilities seem to be mostly variants on psychokinsis with a psychic power or two. .

 

I guess I could be that she was trying "not to upset the time stream" but she maintained the magic angle even when her past self wasn't around. And where do Hex and Charm caster, the various magical artifacts and such fall into this? You can slap a more sci-fi explanation on them, I suppose but it seems like a quickie patch to make the show more "sci-fi" that wasn't fully thought out.

 

That said I don't hate it, it's just bugs me at time. Geek thing I guess.

 

*Though the difference between "manipulating lifeforce for seemingly endless physics bending effects" and "magic" is a slim one. :-D

 

Yeah, he was a cold blooded killer before, so this needs more explanation than "some random alien Plumber sacrificed himself for me needlessly" and "Wow, Ben's geeky cousin got hot!".

 

I'm actually more disturbed how quickly Ben and Gwen have grown to trust him considering all the things they know he's capable of...

 

Yeah, that's a big one, especially Gwen returning his affection so quickly.

[Benzini]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Well, we all know more about Gwens powers since "littles girls are made of.." PURE ENERGY os she comes from a witchworld/Q continuum type of world. This REALLY opens up her possibilities in the future, for example: We know that if she gets "killed" it'll probably just convert her to her 'natural' form (if Granma is correct in her thinking).

[csyphrett]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Only have seen six episodes. It kind of does bother me that Verdona and the alien chick from the last episode of Ben 10 season three do essentially the same thing. THat would seem to be an important thing to point out to Gwen in the light that she is half alien and all. It does look like a poor patch job.

CES

[Twilight]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Only have seen six episodes. It kind of does bother me that Verdona and the alien chick from the last episode of Ben 10 season three do essentially the same thing. THat would seem to be an important thing to point out to Gwen in the light that she is half alien and all. It does look like a poor patch job.

CES

 

What it looks like I can't say, 'cause the moderators disapprove of that sort of language.

 

Seriously though, it seems as though they are taking a big wizz on everything I liked in the previous show and making it darker and edgier to boot. Really is there anything in Alien Force that requires Ben to have given up the Omnitrix, have new aliens (since you can add new aliens and keep the old ones and make even -more- money by selling even -more- toys) or that Gwen's powers not be magical?

 

'Cause really it seems to me that the status quo at the end of Goodbye and Good Riddance really doesn't interfere with the story they're trying to tell in Alien Force.

[csyphrett]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

What it looks like I can't say, 'cause the moderators disapprove of that sort of language.

 

Seriously though, it seems as though they are taking a big wizz on everything I liked in the previous show and making it darker and edgier to boot. Really is there anything in Alien Force that requires Ben to have given up the Omnitrix, have new aliens (since you can add new aliens and keep the old ones and make even -more- money by selling even -more- toys) or that Gwen's powers not be magical?

 

'Cause really it seems to me that the status quo at the end of Goodbye and Good Riddance really doesn't interfere with the story they're trying to tell in Alien Force.

 

Here's another thing that stands out. I always got the impression that Plumbers were based on Earth for the most part, and were mostly human. I believe it was stated several times they fought aliens when they arrived on Earth and just retired when things settled down. Alien force is the first mention of Alien plumbers.

 

Where are the Galactic Enforcers?

CES

[Twilight]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Here's another thing that stands out. I always got the impression that Plumbers were based on Earth for the most part, and were mostly human. I believe it was stated several times they fought aliens when they arrived on Earth and just retired when things settled down. Alien force is the first mention of Alien plumbers.

 

Where are the Galactic Enforcers?

CES

 

Unless the new alien plumbers were added when the Plumbers were started up again, the show just altered it's continuity for no good reason. Yet another reason for me not to watch it.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

did someone do a character sheet online for this guy ?

my google skills are only 14 or less...

 

thanks.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Follow the links in the OP for the old threads with various 10 year old Ben write ups.

 

The Alien Force write ups will be posted in this thread shortly. I'm actually working on them right now and it's pretty clear that I need to go back and take more notes...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Only had time to post Ben and Big Chill tonight

[nexus]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Only had time to post Ben and Big Chill tonight

 

They look pretty good to me.

 

On another Kevin has really been nerfed hasn't he? Gwen too but to a smaller degree. Her powers are more reliable but they've been limited to mostly TK and usually of the grab/throw and blast type at that.

[nexus]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Unless the new alien plumbers were added when the Plumbers were started up again' date=' the show just altered it's continuity for no good reason. Yet another reason for me not to watch it. [/quote']

 

I always thought the Plumbers were an "Men In Black" style Earth organization. The name makes more sense that way, IMO. Ben10 Alien Force isn't that bad but it feels like a "reimagining" more than a sequel. like "Ultimate Ben10" or something.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Ben 10: Alien Force

 

Big Chill

 

[b]

Val Char Cost Roll Notes[/b]

15 STR 5 12- Lift 200.0kg; 3d6 HTH damage [1] Reminds me of Gargoyles.

 

dude

 

You must Spread some Reputation Around before giving it to Blood-Stone, again and again