Punch-Through

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

So you have a really nice, really vicious attack, or something that by all rights should go through A and into B. Good examples would be rapiers, lightsabers, plasma lances, and the sort -- in short, attacks that may do only a certain amount of damage to the first thing they hit, but that can go through that target and into another, again doing damage.

 

This damage may not necessarily be enough to kill the target; you can run a man through with a rapier (for example) and punch into the guy holding him, and yet kill neither of them directly. (Bleeding rules, of course, take care of the slow, lingering death they both deserve ... or something.)

 

Is this just F/X, and GM determined as to whether and/or when it happens? Could/should this be defined as an Advantage, that it does X damage to the person, and possibly Y damage to anyone/thing directly behind them? Might it be considered to be an attack that is AoE Line, but for a limited length (and presumably width) of Line?

 

In short, what option would you take, and how would you build?

[Vondy]

Re: Punch-Through

 

There are blow-through rules in Dark Champions. Its a variation on the idea of casual strength.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Punch-Through

 

Ach. One of those things I don't have. Can anyone summarize for me, bare-bones the rules?

[Vondy]

Re: Punch-Through

 

I only post this because its in one of the reviews posted on this site - and you could therefore get it here, anyways.

 

Blowthrough: if ½DMG exceeds BY/DF of barrier it provides no DF.

 

If that doesn't do what you want I'm sure herodom assembled can come up with some other ideas.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Punch-Through

 

I don't have a book nearby... how does that relate to the rules in 5e/r on breaking Entangles?

[Alibear]

Re: Punch-Through

 

What about doing something with a naked area of effect : 1 hex, requires a Martial arts trick roll to get the guy behind lined up properly?

[Maur]

Re: Punch-Through

 

The problem is the shear distance between each hex. While it might work for a ranged attack (e.g. Indiana shooting all those nazis on the tank with a luger), I wouldn't expect one to be able to do it at all with a melee attack. Why? Because you are both, essentially near the edge of each of your hexes to fight from one hex to the other and hit. Which means that all the other opponents are 2 or more meters away. Now, if you changed up the grid to be 1" hexes or required opponents in melee to be in the same hex, then maybe you could hit another person with the blow through, but generally you aren't likely to get anyone else.

 

To give you an idea just how roomy a hex is, you are looking at 2.6 square meters of space for a single person to stand in. Parades usually anticipate a single adult to occupy about .2 square meters. So, to get parade crowd density, you are looking at 13 or 14 people in each hex. That's a lot of space, heheh.

[Alibear]

Re: Punch-Through

 

Eh? Whatever makes you think people in melee are not occupying the same hex? The hex grid is just a handy way to count range don't let it interfere with the game in a negative manner. One of the reasons I don't use a hex map is that it can lead to rigid thinking.

 

A lightsaber 'blade' is roughly four foot long, in theory you could stick it through A to hit B if they were bunched up.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Punch-Through

 

Lightsaber, rapier, plasma lance, whatever, yes. The problem lies in that the rapier / lightsaber / plasma lance may not do enough Body to kill the person, but because of its nature -- penetrating, generally -- it may go right through and damage whatever or whomever is behind that target as well. So Sgt. Major gets shot through the arm by a plasma lance (taking, say, 2 damage), and the superhot jet continues on through to nail Lt. Wheed right between the eyes, killing him dead.

 

I suspect I may have wing it. A 2d6 x2 Penetrating attack might be able to do its damage to two or three non-rED targets before 'burning out'... ... hmmm. That's not a bad rule of thumb.

 

'A Penetrating attack, if it can reach (e.g. rapiers can't go much beyond 1' behind their thrust-through target), can damage a number of targets in a row equal to 1 + the number of Penetrating multiples they have taken. Resistant Defenses are considered to act as 2 'people', while a target with hardened defenses cannot be punched or blown through.'

 

Thoughts?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Punch-Through

 

Lightsaber' date=' rapier, plasma lance, whatever, yes. The problem lies in that the rapier / lightsaber / plasma lance may not do enough Body to kill the person, but because of its nature -- penetrating, generally -- it [i']may[/i] go right through and damage whatever or whomever is behind that target as well. So Sgt. Major gets shot through the arm by a plasma lance (taking, say, 2 damage), and the superhot jet continues on through to nail Lt. Wheed right between the eyes, killing him dead.

 

I suspect I may have wing it. A 2d6 x2 Penetrating attack might be able to do its damage to two or three non-rED targets before 'burning out'... ... hmmm. That's not a bad rule of thumb.

 

'A Penetrating attack, if it can reach (e.g. rapiers can't go much beyond 1' behind their thrust-through target), can damage a number of targets in a row equal to 1 + the number of Penetrating multiples they have taken. Resistant Defenses are considered to act as 2 'people', while a target with hardened defenses cannot be punched or blown through.'

 

Thoughts?

 

I'd recommend using Armor Piercing instead of Penetrating. That has at least some SFX relationship with real-life weapons.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Punch-Through

 

I have HOUSE RULES for this sort of thing.

 

In general for ranged attacks, if the Damage (Body) of the attack does enough damage to reduce the Body of the target to 0, the remaining Body continues on past the original target. If the attack does more than double the full Body of the Target, the attack obliterates (atomizes) the target and continues on its way with no loss of energy whatsoever.

 

For Melee attacks, if the attack is capable (a long stabbing type weapon like a Longsword, rapier or spear) the same rules apply, but they only threaten any objects in the same Hex as the original target of course.

 

In the case of wanting to shoot/stab through a non-vital portion of one character to hit a target holding that character, I use the Hit Location penalties with an additional -2 OCV penalty to simulate the attempt at avoiding major joints, arteries etc. If the attack roll is successful, then the attack must do enough damage to get through any DEF the forward character has. The forward character takes 1/2 Body damage (after subtracting DEF) and the rear target takes full Body damage from the attack (subtract their DEF as well)

[Trebuchet]

Re: Punch-Through

 

To give you an idea just how roomy a hex is' date=' you are looking at 2.6 square meters of space for a single person to stand in. Parades usually anticipate a single adult to occupy about .2 square meters. So, to get parade crowd density, you are looking at 13 or 14 people in each hex. That's a lot of space, heheh.[/quote']Actually, a hexagon 2 meters across (from flat to flat) has an area of 3.46 m². Doesn't change what you were saying, though: That's a whole lot of room for a single person to stand in.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Punch-Through

 

Maybe the Indirect Advantage

 

 

 

 

QM

[Bloodstone]

Re: Punch-Through

 

"I try to impale them both on my spear!" is just a really brutal description for using Sweep.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Punch-Through

 

"I try to impale them both on my spear!" is just a really brutal description for using Sweep.

*ding!* We have a winner!

 

Repped.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Punch-Through

 

D'oh!!