Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

[Blue Jogger]

I wanted to see how other people would build this power.

 

Bloodlust

+3 OCV Hand to Hand, -3 DCV (-1/4)

(9 Active, 7 Real)

 

The -3 DCV seems weak at -1/4, but Bulky is -1/2 and it's 1/2 DCV, 1/2 OCV. Next if I wanted to give this to an enemy, it makes it really expensive. Plus, I'm not sure you can put a limit on a 3 point skill.

 

Comments?

[Lord Liaden]

IMHO the comparison to the Bulky option for Focus is a bit misleading; that's added to an existing Focus Lim, and stacked Limitations never give you the same cost break as they would if you could use them by themselves on a base Power.

 

I approached this from a different direction mechanically than you. Detrimental effects to the use of an ability struck me as sounding like Side Effects. Since +3 DCV would cost 15 pts., I figured that -3 DCV to the user should cost the same. 15 pts. is the minimum Side Effect value at -1/4, but since it happens every time the ability is used it comes to -1/2.

 

Unfortunately, the minimum CSL that you can put Limitations on is 5 pts., so your +3 OCV HTH would cost 15 AP, or 10 RP.

 

If you want to bring the cost down further, I'd suggest adding "Costs END" (bloodlust should require a little extra effort) , making it 7 RP.

[dbsousa]

Isn't this a variant of Concentrate? if the character has a 6 OCV, there is no difference. I would sacrifice the exact number for elegance in the game...

[NuSoardGraphite]

Hey Blue Jogger.

 

Personaly, I'd just make the DCV penalty 1/2DCV and give it the same limitation as 1/2DCV concentration (but without the reduction in mobility and perception)

 

Of course, if you must have the penalty be specifically -3DCV, then a nice round -1/2 sounds reasonable. Thats a significant loss of defensive capability after all...

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Where'd I put that Pheonix Down?

 

Ah, here it is!

 

*BLING*

 

Okay. I think this would make an interesting FH Talent:

 

Bloodlust

+3 CSL with Hand to Hand (15)

Cost End (-1/2) 1/2DCV (-1/2) throughout. OCV only (-1/2) 6 pts

+2CSL with Hand to Hand (10)

Cost End (-1/2) 1/2DCV (-1/2) throughout. Only to increase DC (-1/2) 4pts

Total cost: 10pts End=2/phase

 

This Talent reflects a character who has such a thirst for blood that their fighting style displays an unmatched brutality. They fight aggressively without much thought to defense. This creates a fighter who is always on the offensive and attacks in such a way that it is difficult to defend against.

 

Game notes: The +3 to OCV represents their exceptionally aggressive fighting techniques. Characters using this Talent tend to rush in, raining blows down upon their opponent eventually battering away their defenses. The +2 CSL's to DC (thus giving +1DC bonus) represents the character putting more effort into their blows, thus doing greater damage. The 1/2 DCV penalty lasts as long as the character utilizes this Talent and thus is worth double the normal limitation value. The End cost is in addition to End accrued from attacks and moving, so characters using this Talent will oftentimes wear themselves out quickly.

This Talent is especially effective for characters that like to make use of the Sweep maneuver. Since they are already at 1/2DCV, the penalty from this Talent is inconsequential and the OCV bonus allows for more attacks in the Sweep at a lesser penalty. Two Weapon Fighting specialists with this Talent can be incredibly deadly opponents.

Note also that this Talent can be keyed into a character Psychological disadvantage (of the same name) and be built to activate only if the character fails their EGO roll to resist the bloodlust (treat this as RSR advantage at -1/2 with no AP penalty) in which case the cost is only 8 real points.

Characters with this Talent (not keyed to the Psych Disad) can choose to not activate the Talent and thus fight in a more controlled manner if they so desire.

This Talent is great for representing uncontrollable characters such as Dilandu from The Vision of Escaflowne, Kamjin from Superdimensional Fortress Macross and Wolverine when he gets pissed off. (not quite Berserk, but difficult to face in battle because of sheer aggression)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Even the fact that you can't put a Limitation on a 3pt CSL as others have said - A +1 OCV Hand-To-Hand CSL is a 5pt CSL to begin with.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Where'd I put that Pheonix Down?

 

Bloodlust

+3 CSL with Hand to Hand (15)

Cost End (-1/2) 1/2DCV (-1/2) throughout. OCV only (-1/2) 6 pts

+2CSL with Hand to Hand (10)

Cost End (-1/2) 1/2DCV (-1/2) throughout. Only to increase DC (-1/2) 4pts

Total cost: 10pts End=2/phase

 

 

I would do this buy maybe use +10 Strength instead of +2 CSL.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Can't this be more easily simulated with a Martial Art maneuver? It'll cost between 3-5 points, even give some extra DCs.

 

Just throw it in a MA style and call the maneuver Blood Lust....

[ghost-angel]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

The rules for Martial Arts only allow up to a +/- 2 for OCV and DCV, without the GM altering them at least.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

I would do this buy maybe use +10 Strength instead of +2 CSL.

 

Good point, but I was thinking that it might step on the toes of characters with the Berserk Fury Talent, thus I wanted to limit it to +1DC. +5 STR would be appropriate in that case. Also I was thinking that I wanted the character to gain +1DC no matter the STR Minimum of the weapon, which is why I went with CSL's instead of STR.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Can't this be more easily simulated with a Martial Art maneuver? It'll cost between 3-5 points, even give some extra DCs.

 

Just throw it in a MA style and call the maneuver Blood Lust....

 

Nope nope. The point of Bloodlust is that they fight much harder but at the cost of DCV.

 

The point here is that a character with Bloodlust could activate the Bloodlust Talent and still use Martial Maneuvers. Imagine a villain with Bloodlust going using Fast Strike for an additional +2 OCV and +1 DC to their attack (total +5 OCV, +2 DC's over Strength) and that doesn't even consider their skill levels!

[braincraft]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

a) Side effects

 

Multipower

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Aid with Side Effect (DCV penalty)?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Aid with Side Effect (DCV penalty)?

 

Aid to Dex and Str with DCV penalty?

 

Any way you look at it, a build decent enough to get the DEX to add 9pts (+3 CV) is going to be too expensive for a Talent.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Even the fact that you can't put a Limitation on a 3pt CSL as others have said - A +1 OCV Hand-To-Hand CSL is a 5pt CSL to begin with.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

 

A 5pts CSL can be shifted around to OCV, DCV or DC. Locking out the ability to shift the skill level should be worth at least a -1/2 (locking out one specific category would be worth -1/4 I think) as you are removing a significant amount of the effectiveness of a 5pt CSL.

[archermoo]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

 

A 5pts CSL can be shifted around to OCV, DCV or DC. Locking out the ability to shift the skill level should be worth at least a -1/2 (locking out one specific category would be worth -1/4 I think) as you are removing a significant amount of the effectiveness of a 5pt CSL.

 

A 5 point level can only be used for OCV, DCV and DC if it is limited as to what it applies to. I.e. HtH only, Ranged only, etc. +1 to all DCV is a textbook 5 point level.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

A 5 point level can only be used for OCV' date=' DCV and DC if it is limited as to what it applies to. I.e. HtH only, Ranged only, etc. +1 to all DCV is a textbook 5 point level.[/quote']

 

I see

 

okay then. I failed to mention it, but I was implying that the Bloodlust Talent is limited to Hand to Hand combat. It wouldn't apply at range.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

15 Bloodlust: (Total: 25 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost)

 

+10 STR (10 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-3 DCV; -1/2) (Real Cost: 5)

 

plus

 

+3 with HTH Combat (15 Active Points); Linked (+10 STR; -1/2) (Real Cost: 10)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

...

 

Bloodlust

+3 CSL with Hand to Hand (15)

Cost End (-1/2) 1/2DCV (-1/2) throughout. OCV only (-1/2) 6 pts

+2CSL with Hand to Hand (10)

Cost End (-1/2) 1/2DCV (-1/2) throughout. Only to increase DC (-1/2) 4pts

Total cost: 10pts End=2/phase

 

...

 

I've read all the posts in the thread and I'm not sure where the 3 point level comment came from. Here is your version formated using HDv3:

 

Bloodlust, all slots Costs Endurance (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2)

6 1) +3 with HTH Combat (15 Active Points); Limited Power For OCV Only (-1/2) - END=1

4 2) +2 with HTH Combat (10 Active Points); Limited Power For Damage Increase Only (-1/2) - END=1

 

I like it.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Lemme 'splain.

 

No, takes too long. Lemme sum up:

 

Bloodlust; +3 OCV (15 Active Points), Side Effect, Side Effect Occurs Whenever Power is Used, Set Effect, etc. & so forth, -3 DCV. (-1/2... I think) 11 Real.

 

Done.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Lemme 'splain.

 

No, takes too long. Lemme sum up:

 

Bloodlust; +3 OCV (15 Active Points), Side Effect, Side Effect Occurs Whenever Power is Used, Set Effect, etc. & so forth, -3 DCV. (-1/2... I think) 11 Real.

 

Done.

 

The way I wrote it up is cheaper and gives the added benefit of +1DC.

 

Thats not a bad build though, for those who don't want to use the damage adder.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

I've read all the posts in the thread and I'm not sure where the 3 point level comment came from. Here is your version formated using HDv3:

 

Bloodlust, all slots Costs Endurance (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2)

6 1) +3 with HTH Combat (15 Active Points); Limited Power For OCV Only (-1/2) - END=1

4 2) +2 with HTH Combat (10 Active Points); Limited Power For Damage Increase Only (-1/2) - END=1

 

I like it.

 

 

Thanks. I'm in the process of writing up a bunch of Talents for Fantasy Hero right now. I'm just throwing some ideas out there. Nothing is set in stone as of yet.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

I've read all the posts in the thread and I'm not sure where the 3 point level comment came from. Here is your version formated using HDv3:

 

Bloodlust, all slots Costs Endurance (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2)

6 1) +3 with HTH Combat (15 Active Points); Limited Power For OCV Only (-1/2) - END=1

4 2) +2 with HTH Combat (10 Active Points); Limited Power For Damage Increase Only (-1/2) - END=1

 

I like it.

 

Isn't the last line the same as:

 

4 Hand-To-Hand Attack +2d6 (10 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), All slots Cost END (-1/2)

 

Hmm, though you could add 1 DC to any attack with the skills, and with the +2d6 HA you could only add to normal damage attacks. Is that right? I don't think that it would allow you to add to a KA....

 

Things that make you go, hmm....

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

The way I wrote it up is cheaper and gives the added benefit of +1DC.

 

Thats not a bad build though, for those who don't want to use the damage adder.

 

Your original post said, IIRC (and I may not), "Add three OCV, lose 3 DCV." Which is what I wrote. I'll agree that Concentration achieves a specific effect, but you specified +3/-3, which I wrote.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Bloodlust (+3 OCV HandtoHand, -3 DCV)

 

Your original post said' date=' IIRC (and I may not), "Add three OCV, lose 3 DCV." Which is what I wrote. I'll agree that Concentration achieves a specific effect, but you specified +3/-3, which I wrote.[/quote']

 

 

I didn't write the Original Post. That was Blue Jogger back in '03. I merely excercised my powers of Necromancy so that I could put my 2 cents in on this Talent, since I am currently on a quest for Talents for my FH games. I have decided I really liked this Talent and will use it, but I prefer 1/2 DCV to the orignal posts -3 DCV.