About a martial artist type

[Zaransis]

Hi... first of all, I'd like to say that I'm, (obviously) new to the forums, as this is my first post (so I apologize if this is in the wrong place). I'm also relatively new to Champions. I've played DnD/White Wolf stuff for awhile, so I'm kind of aware of what I'm doing.

 

I'll be joining a game soon, but I have no idea what is considered a good stat # for an archetype. In DnD, I know a good dex for a starting monk to have is 16-20, but since I haven't played in a Champions game yet, I have no idea what is considered a good dex for a martial artist. By good, I mean a dex that is fitting for a martial artist that also doesn't really gimp me. Strength and Con #'s would be good too.

 

The game is 300 pts, so that should give you an idea of what I'm working with.

 

So far, my attempts have been futile. I tend aim my main stats too high, so I end up with far too few points left for powers and martial art styles.

 

Thanks. And also, for those who play City of Heroes, I'm aiming this character to be close to a martial arts/super reflexes scrapper.

[Bloodstone]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

It's really very different from game to game, so IMX...

 

Most martial artists tend to fall in the 23-30 range for DEX. Typical STR is usually 15-20, but you will see higher for really big guys or guys with chi powers. STR 35-45 is typically the league you see agile "demi bricks" (guys like Spiderman or Beast). CON would probably be around 18-23, but this depends a lot on your defenses and average campaign damage levels.

 

I'd probably do MA/SR scrapper with a 30+ Dex, but keep in mind AoE's and Explosions WILL tag you since they largely ignore your DCV, so you 'll definitely want enough PD and ED that these aren't instant KO's.

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

It's really very different from game to game, so IMX...

 

Most martial artists tend to fall in the 23-30 range for DEX. Typical STR is usually 15-20, but you will see higher for really big guys or guys with chi powers. STR 35-45 is typically the league you see agile "demi bricks" (guys like Spiderman or Beast). CON would probably be around 18-23, but this depends a lot on your defenses and average campaign damage levels.

 

I'd probably do MA/SR scrapper with a 30+ Dex, but keep in mind AoE's and Explosions WILL tag you since they largely ignore your DCV, so you 'll definitely want enough PD and ED that these aren't instant KO's.

 

My straight Martial Artist types usually have a 15 STR, 28 DEX, 18-23 CON. I aim for a 10 PD and ED and then add in some Damage Resistance or Armor (armored costume). 6-7 SPD depending on the SPD of the rest of the party, I like to have a bit higher SPD then the party as a whole.

 

Extra Running is good (helps with Diving For Cover).

Missile Deflection helps off-set some Defense needs, another reason for a higher SPD.

 

Hope that helps.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

Like all measurements, its all relative to the context / in comparison to something else.

 

Here's a good rule of thumb...equal or exceed the DEX of any other dexterous members of your PC group unless they are a dedicated speedster, in which case you should be a close second in DEX and invest in a maneuver or two with OCV bonuses and / or some Combat Skill Levels to ensure that while the speedster might be a little quicker (that's part of his shtick after all), you are still more accurate (hitting things accurately is part of your shtick).

 

Of course, what really matters is how dexterous the enemies you fight are.

 

 

Thus the easiest way to overcome your design quandary is to simply ask the GM to recommend a DEX range for you to fulfill your shtick of quick accurate MA guy.

[Certified]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

Okay, so my first recommendation is if you are all starting a new game make your characters together or collaborate in what you're doing. This will help put the character in the right range to be effected but not grossly lopsided. Talk to your GM, what do they think is a good range for a super martial artist. For the game I'm currently running a world class martial artist runs with a Dex around 20 to 23 and a Speed of 5-7 with some added Combat Skill Levels, but that's no more or less correct than any other post. It's a matter of what is the campaign geared for?

 

You can find pages and pages of threads with the Dex conundrum, try do a search for Batman builds...

 

In the end I think the answer is:

 

Somewhere on the high end of the campaigns spectrum but likely lower than a full on speedster. As posted above, the character will likely need some form or Resistant Defense since DCV will not always be the single shot solution, ask Seeker...

 

Normally, Some martial arts type things I go for when avoiding the Armor power are CSLs in DCV, sometimes attached to Martial Maneuvers sometimes not. Combat Luck or a Force Field, for "Chi Defense", but again this doesn't mean Armor is any less of an option. It could just as easily be a combination of all these things.

 

I hope this advice helps without being too confusing.

[Psylint]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

Like most everything in Hero, it depends. Suppose you're running 300 pts. and the average non-martial arts antagonist is operating between 3-5 OCV, then a 10 or 12 DCV makes you essentially unhittable. If, however, you're in a super campaign where the low end OCV tends to be 6 or 7, the average 8 or 9, then a 10 or 12 DCV as a primary means of defense is likely too little. And best it would have to be augmented with a high speed and/or the frequent use of maneuvers such as Defensive Strike.

 

But a lot of it is just balancing that you need to talk to whoever is running the campaign. You also might want to check out the a 3d6 probability table, and remember that whatever the disparity in DEX or CV you can still get hit on a natural 3, and AoE's eat your lunch and laugh.

 

For my two-bits, I wouldn't walk out of my apartment as a DEX-based character unless my natural DCV was at least 2 pts. higher than the highest non-Dex based OCV. But that's me.

 

Peace

[Checkmate]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

I'll copy and paste a post I made to someone else who was new to Champions. As I said back then, this has the potential to start a HUGE war, so let me clarify that this was all just off the top of my head to give a general comparison, not meant to be the be all end all of where these characters should fall:

 

10-14: These are your "normals" and "lesser heroes" character's like Shadowcat and Dr. Strange would fall on the higher end of this.

15-17: These are highly trained people. Cyclopse, Magneto, I'd put around here.

18-20: These are very well trained, but still normals: Nick Fury, the Joker, I'd probably but here.

21-23: These are very good fighters, but still relatively human. I'd put A TON of characters in this range: Electra, Moon Knight, Mockingbird, Robin.

24-26: These are either ultimate fighters, or low super-DEX charaters. Batman, Captain America, Nightcrawler.

27-32 These are superpowered characters. Spiderman would be the high end (or a bit higher).

[assault]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

My usual standard would be: 20, 23 or 26 DEX for a martial artist PC. 30 is Speedster territory. No PCs would have less than 20 DEX. In fact, it's the standard DEX I work with for 250 point characters, with 23 being the notional standard for 350 pointers. These days, though, I tend to trim the latter back as well.

 

Generally speaking my martial artist characters have more or less the same defences as everyone else, so the fact that they have roughly the same DEX is less of a drama. Bricks are a problem for them, and require tactical thought to defeat - which is my intention.

 

Of course, my characters exist in my own little world, and aren't intended to be compatible with anyone else's game. As such, my suggestions are probably entirely irrelevant to the original post!

[bubba smith]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

one disadvantage a martial artist should have AUTOMATICALLY is that they are subject to the fighter hands law[a prizefighters hands are considered deadly weapons by the courts whether they compete in tournaments or not how would that be written in game terms?

[Bloodstone]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

one disadvantage a martial artist should have AUTOMATICALLY is that they are subject to the fighter hands law[a prizefighters hands are considered deadly weapons by the courts whether they compete in tournaments or not how would that be written in game terms?

 

UMA treats that as a Reputation disadvantage.

 

For the record, in real life, no ones hands are actually "registered as a deadly weapon", though it's still a pretty common myth in the martial arts community. It's certainly something that COULD be appropriate in supers game.

 

That said, there have been lawyers that have made the case that someone was using a deadly weapon by hitting somone barehanded. Mind you, this tactic can be applied equally to both highly trained and completely untrained people. My pencil or the car I drive can also be considered deadly weapons if I try to attack somone with them... so it's a pretty broad definition.

 

So, legally speaking, the hands CAN be considered deadly weapons, but that comes down to the judge and jury more than any specific state or federal law. At least, as far as I know...

[Alibear]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

one disadvantage a martial artist should have AUTOMATICALLY is that they are subject to the fighter hands law[a prizefighters hands are considered deadly weapons by the courts whether they compete in tournaments or not how would that be written in game terms?

 

And the guys who can lift tanks or who can shoot lasers out of their eyes don't get it automatically? Sounds like nonsense to me. Self defence is self defence no matter how well trained you are. (in Britain at least)

[Certified]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

And the guys who can lift tanks or who can shoot lasers out of their eyes don't get it automatically? Sounds like nonsense to me. Self defence is self defence no matter how well trained you are. (in Britain at least)

 

Um, do I have to a British national to sign up for the Lasers out the eyes Defense Training?

[freakboy6117]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

Yes you do certified, but the lifting tanks class is open to anyone with a tourist or student visa. Although I'd recommend starting with the beginners lifting small cars class going straight to tanks gave me a terrible muscle pull.

[Alibear]

Re: About a martial artist type

 

Um' date=' do I have to a British national to sign up for the Lasers out the eyes Defense Training?[/quote']

 

Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was for a Champions game. I didn't realise it was the real world we were talking about now.