Ultimate Skill Learner <<help>>

[Polaris]

Greetings,

 

I have a player that has come up with a character concept he wants to play in a game. He is unsure how to make it, so I said I would put it out to see if anyone here might be able to come up with anything.

 

He wants to play a character that can pick up on skills effortlessly, but can't remember them for super long. In essence, he would be able to duplicate what he has seen others do, but the skill wouldn't last very long.

 

FREd mentions that you can purchase skills as powers. I was thinking of something like a VPP with limitations: only usable on skills; must have witnessed skill being used by someone within last 30 days.

 

Does that sound right? Also, how much of a limitation would those two be worth?

 

Thanks!

Polaris

 

PS: Another idea I had was for him to purchase Overall Levels with the limitation that it had to be applied to skills he has seen used within the past 30 days. The difficulty with this, of course, is he would have to have the skill to apply the Overall Levels to (this would be more applicable if witnessing someone use the skill he already has would enhance his use of the skill).

[Monolith]

I have seen the VPP done several times. I generally would give it Skills Only: -1 and Must Witness Skill In use: -1/2 Limitations. I would probably also require the character to take Cramming as well to simulate his ability (and as a way of charging the character a few more points to get such useful power).

 

I would not let the character have a big VPP; probably around 9-10 points (enough to get and retain a maximum of 3, 3 point skills to begin with). That way the character cannot save a lot of different skills for long periods of time.

[OddHat]

I agree with Monolith's solution, and I'd add some suggestions from my games and the Until Super Powers Databse for a mimic poll. The limits might be physical skills only (-1), may only copy skills from caharacters in LOS and within 10" (-1/2), copied skills may not be retained (-1/4). In this case, that last limiter means that after he copies "over" a skill, he won't be able to get it back until he sees it demonstrated again. To shift the pool in combat, add 1/2 phase to change (+1/2) and a Power Skill: Reflex Memory or some-such.

 

I've had a great time recently with a character using a VPP, Cosmic(+2), only Super-Martial Arts and Chi Powers (-1/4, with a fairly broad interpretation of Chi powers).

 

If you let him place anything other than STR or DEX based skills in the pool, I'd suggest asking him to buy cramming, speed reading, and eidetic memory outside of the pool. If you let him make it a 6 active point Cosmic skill pool (skills only for -1/2), you'll essentially be giving him mastery of every skill for 14 points. You'll have to think carefully about whether you'd allow that.

[Zed-F]

Why not use Cramming as the power skill?

[Agent X]

Frankly, I like the suggestions that they're giving you but if the guy wants to be able to use more than 3 skills at a time, let him. Big whoop.

 

"Oh know! That guy has adopted my acrobatics and breakfall, your +3 skill levels with energy blast (and he doesn't have that energy blast), the Marmoset's paramedic skill, and Raging Rider's combat driving!"

 

Tell me how he's going to use these skills in some dire combination that will end game balance.

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Agent X

Tell me how he's going to use these skills in some dire combination that will end game balance.

 

The problem is that I might've spent 30 points on skills while Matrix-Boy can do the same thing with a 5 point VPP. Why would anyone actually buy all the separate skills?

 

In this case, it's not so bad because of the conditions, but in general Skills in a VPP are illegal for that very reason.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Agent X

Frankly, I like the suggestions that they're giving you but if the guy wants to be able to use more than 3 skills at a time, let him. Big whoop.

 

"Oh know! That guy has adopted my acrobatics and breakfall, your +3 skill levels with energy blast (and he doesn't have that energy blast), the Marmoset's paramedic skill, and Raging Rider's combat driving!"

 

Tell me how he's going to use these skills in some dire combination that will end game balance.

 

True, as long as the skill pool is limited. Even unlimitied pools aren't a problem in most four color game play. It only becomes a problem if the other players get upset when they realize that they sunk 150 points into skills for their Streetwise Martial-Artist Gadgeteers and the Skill Pool guy got effectively the same thing for around 30 points. In a skill heavy game, the skill pool guy may steal other player's thunder.

 

That said, many characters in comics and fiction are well represented with VPP skill pools.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Monolith

I have seen the VPP done several times. I generally would give it Skills Only: -1 and Must Witness Skill In use: -1/2 Limitations. I would probably also require the character to take Cramming as well to simulate his ability (and as a way of charging the character a few more points to get such useful power).

 

I would not let the character have a big VPP; probably around 9-10 points (enough to get and retain a maximum of 3, 3 point skills to begin with). That way the character cannot save a lot of different skills for long periods of time.

 

This depends on the exact ability you want to simulate. If he's as good as the person he witnessed, he may need more points to buy bonuses to the roll.

 

Presumably, he's limited to physical skills (seeing Professor Potts lecture on nuclear physics likely doesn't let him pick up Nuclear Physics: 14-). That restricts him a bit.

 

I would only allow this if it's not going to step on another player's toes (eg. you have a heavy skill character in the group already), but failing that, it seems a reasonable ability, at least for a Super. Note that he's virtually guaranteed access to skills of his teammates.

 

You should also address what skills are covered. Knowledge as discussed above. Can he duplicate martial arts? What about "hyper-skill" powers, like invisibility defined as "super-stealth" or Captain Crossbow's CSL's with crossbows? Either approach is likely OK, but you should both be on the same page up front.

 

The full blown "photographic reflexes" possessed by Taskmaster, for example, carries a lot of power, probably even an ability to enhance his stats (witness his ability to actually enhance his own DEX and SPD by watching himself on a VCR at 2x speed!), which is likely a bit more than you want to allow.

 

Another issue: does he have to see the person, or can he watch them on TV, movies and/or video. If he can, he'll find it easier to maintain skills.

 

Bottom line: Neat power; I'd allow it, but get it fully defined up front.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Agent X

Frankly, I like the suggestions that they're giving you but if the guy wants to be able to use more than 3 skills at a time, let him. Big whoop.

It is a "big whoop." If someone can have 15 different skills in the pool at one time (about 45 points) you are allowing that character to have a huge advantage over someone who must buy those skills. Think of it this way:

 

In January Photoman learned Computer Programming by watching The Hacker work. Because Photoman has a 30 pt VPP he never had any reason to remove the Computer Programming skill from his VPP. 7 months later Photoman still has Computer Programming in his VPP. He has been using the skill all those months for free. That is a huge advantage.

 

By only allowing a 10 point VPP you are saying that the character can only retain 2-3 skills at one time. The odds are pretty good that at some point the character is going to have to drop one of the "free" skills to learn something else. On Monday he might know Computer Programming, Electronics, and Security Systems, but by Friday he might know Stealth, Shadowing, and Cryptography. The smaller the pool the less chance the character will be able to take advantage of it.

 

Putting skills in a VPP is generally against the rules, so if a GM is going to allow something like this then it really should be considered a STOP SIGN power and the GM needs to understand the ramification of allowing the character to have too much of the ability.

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Monolith

Putting skills in a VPP is generally against the rules, so if a GM is going to allow something like this then it really should be considered a STOP SIGN power and the GM needs to understand the ramification of allowing the character to have too much of the ability.

 

Agreed. My Super Skills VPP character compensated by building the "skills" as powers (e.g. gliding with change position instead of acrobatics, clinging instead of climbing, HA instead of MA maneuvers, etc.). The character ended up as well ballanced in play as any other VPP user, and the pure skill based players didn't feel overshadowed.

 

Even then, he couldn't simulate sciences or knowledge skills (though a character with the Science! VPP might).

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Well, buying normal skills with a limitation 'must have seen skill used' is a more legal way to do this...

[BNakagawa]

I would also put in a limiter that the copied skill has to be lower than the person he copied it from.

 

Allowing it to be equal to or greater than introduces the "anything you can do, I can do better" problem.

 

$0.02

[Dauntless]

How is he gaining these skills? If it's done ala the Matrix, it could be done as a VPP with a limitation requiring a small download time (1 turn), and "Physical Skills only applicable in the Matrix".

 

Depending on the special effect of how he learns skills, it could affect his ability to perform those skills. For example, in the Matrix, even if you downloaded "Kung Fu" skill, in the "real world" (which as it seems to be might not BE the real world) your muscles, ligaments, tendons and other structural body limits aren't trained to deal with the neurological capabilities of the skills themselves. In otherwords, for neuro-motor skills, you've got the neuro, but not the motor. In the Matrix however, your avatar isn't physically restricted, and you should be able to "bend" the rules of physics in order to make your body do feats it can't in the real world. Skills that are pure knowledge/comprehension based should be easily downloadable without much restrictions.

 

Assuming your game world isn't based on some kind of Matrix-like world, how does he gain these skills? Is it like an absorbtion capability where he has to physically contact the person...perhaps transferring (copying) skills? Is he like the Marvel villain Taskmaster with his photographic reflexes....able to copy any movement he sees? If so you could put a limitation that he must watch a person for so many phases or turns to pick up a skill.

[MisterD]

Giving a character a skill VPP should be based on character concept.

 

A character that can interface with computers (hooked up to the internet) Can have any KS or INT based skill by downloading it rom the internet.

 

A character with 'reflex memory' can copy any dex / str based skill he sees.

 

I scientist with a plethera of science skills well. he went to school or individual studes to LEARN EACH of his skills.

 

You get my meaning,

[OddHat]

Originally posted by MisterD

Giving a character a skill VPP should be based on character concept.

 

A character that can interface with computers (hooked up to the internet) Can have any KS or INT based skill by downloading it rom the internet.

 

A character with 'reflex memory' can copy any dex / str based skill he sees.

 

I scientist with a plethera of science skills well. he went to school or individual studes to LEARN EACH of his skills.

 

You get my meaning,

 

Agreed to all of the above as far as character concepts and powers go. On the other hand, in certain campaign settings (pure four color golden age or comedy come to mind), the Science! VPP (10 point cosmic VPP, only Science or Knowledge skills) might be OK.

[MisterD]

OK.

 

If you want a scientist to have a VPP for science skill I would say OK BUT!!!!!!!

 

This skills would have to be related to his field of study.

 

A scientist speicializing in sonics would not have botany, antemology as skills.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Arthur

The problem is that I might've spent 30 points on skills while Matrix-Boy can do the same thing with a 5 point VPP. Why would anyone actually buy all the separate skills?

 

In this case, it's not so bad because of the conditions, but in general Skills in a VPP are illegal for that very reason.

I am specifically speaking about this VPP with those conditions. Of course everyone walking around with a cosmic, no skill roll Skill Power Pool is disgusting.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Monolith

It is a "big whoop." If someone can have 15 different skills in the pool at one time (about 45 points) you are allowing that character to have a huge advantage over someone who must buy those skills. Think of it this way:

 

In January Photoman learned Computer Programming by watching The Hacker work. Because Photoman has a 30 pt VPP he never had any reason to remove the Computer Programming skill from his VPP. 7 months later Photoman still has Computer Programming in his VPP. He has been using the skill all those months for free. That is a huge advantage.

 

By only allowing a 10 point VPP you are saying that the character can only retain 2-3 skills at one time. The odds are pretty good that at some point the character is going to have to drop one of the "free" skills to learn something else. On Monday he might know Computer Programming, Electronics, and Security Systems, but by Friday he might know Stealth, Shadowing, and Cryptography. The smaller the pool the less chance the character will be able to take advantage of it.

 

Putting skills in a VPP is generally against the rules, so if a GM is going to allow something like this then it really should be considered a STOP SIGN power and the GM needs to understand the ramification of allowing the character to have too much of the ability.

Ummm, if he has to witness the skill being used and use that skill or lose it after a few minutes I don't think it is a Big Whoop. I think you extended some of your concerns for unrestrained skill pools to a very limited skill pool.

[Snarf]

If skills in a VPP are so much better than any other ability, you could require an additional +2 or +4 advantage, at least in situations where there aren't any other controls.