Religious reason to be a superhero?

[Trebuchet]

I run a character who is a devout Russian Orthodox; and her faith is an important part of her life. I'd like to have a quote or two from the Bible that she would likely quote if someone were to ask "Why are you a superheroine? Why risk your life to save people you don't even know?"

 

Any suggestions? Being an agnostic; I'm no bible scholar. So I put this to those better educated than I.

[OddHat]

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible

 

Just type words like "smite," "protect," "wicked," "defend," etc. into the search engine.

[Hermit]

Oddhat has a good site. I found these just typing in "Doing Good" there were others...

 

Galatians 6

9And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.

 

 

1 Peter 3:17

For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

 

and, if, for some reason, said character should end up dying, what better speech to give to her friends in farewell than this?

 

 

2 Timothy 4:7

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith

[Watchman-BN]

I think most Calvinist christians (and Russian Orthodox would share the same beliefs even though they wouldn't have been influenced by Calvin) believe in an omniscient, omnipresent God. As more than one critic has pointed out (not trying to start a debate, but just give you food for thought), if God knows what I'm going to do, then why do anything? In fact, everything, from Hitler on down the line was, in a sense, God's will.

 

Recently, the "Open View of the Future" has become more popular and probably reflects the way most Christians live out their lives, seeing how the hardcore Calvinist position seems fatalistic. The Open View asserts that God is indeed omniscient, but that the future is partly settled and partly open. Because God values love, and love must be freely chosen (not programmed), humans are truly free. That means God knows pretty darn well what will happen, but not always, because humans are, indeed, free willed creatures.

 

This means that God is, in a sense, fighting along side his followers to make the world more how God wants it to be. So Hitler (or Dr. Destroyer wiping out Millenium CIty), certainly wasn't "God's mysterious will", and insofar as God could act to persuade free will beings to fight Destroyer, et. al., it would make good theological sense.

 

Those who adhere to the Open View, assert that it requires a God who is very powerful and wise to ever get His way, seeing how most humans tend to be selfish, powerhungry mopes. The "calvinist" God doesn't have to work to get His way: we're all just puppets anyway created and predestined to do exactly what we do, with no chance of ever doing anything else.

 

By the way, you could draw on Biblical stories about Samson, Paul, and Moses to see that "super powers" are often granted by God for a specific purpose.

 

The most interesting role play element, to me, would be to make sure the character is careful to give all glory for his/her powers to God. And, the powers could go away at any moment is God becomes displeased....

[assault]

Originally posted by Watchman-BN

As more than one critic has pointed out (not trying to start a debate, but just give you food for thought), if God knows what I'm going to do, then why do anything? In fact, everything, from Hitler on down the line was, in a sense, God's will.

 

My understanding of all this is that doctrines like predestination are good things for groups that consider themselves to be the chosen people (members of the true church, etc). It gives you strength to have destiny on your side.

 

There is a thick strand of Calvinism in the secular ideology of the US, by the way. It has both positive and negative aspects. The negative one is the tendency to be indifferent or hostile to the poor, who after all aren't the chosen ones, are lazy, and so on...

 

Alan

[Hermit]

Hmmm, this thread does make me wonder how one of my lucky submissions for "Name the Hero" that will be appearing in September's DH will be recieved

 

 

I think, in the case of a Christian super hero, it is best to study the particular denomination. If the nonviolent teachings of the New Testament are stressed, for example, that could lead to quite the quandry for said hero.

 

"You're not asking for forgiveness, you're asking for permission- and I won't give it." -Priest in Daredevil

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Hermit

I think, in the case of a Christian super hero, it is best to study the particular denomination. If the nonviolent teachings of the New Testament are stressed, for example, that could lead to quite the quandry for said hero.

 

Too true. On the other hand, check out David Gemmells "Shannow" books; a scripture quoting gunman in the post apocalypse old west. Very cool character, inspired strongly by Clint Eastwood's Preacher character from Pale Rider.

 

Gemmell's fantasy novels also do an interesting job of handling the conflict between Christian non-violence and the need to oppose evil.

[McCoy]

Re: Religious reason to be a superhero?

 

Originally posted by Trebuchet

"Why are you a superheroine? Why risk your life to save people you don't even know?"

 

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

 

That's the King James, the exact wording may be different in an Orthodox, but I think that answers the question.

[Trebuchet]

Thanks for the input. I don't know what Bible the Russian Orthodox church uses, but I'm pretty certain it's not the King James. I'm going to try and do a bit of research on the Orthodox Church to see how she would likely reconcile her faith with her superheroic activities.

 

I found these in the Old Testament:

Job 21:30

That to a day of calamity is the wicked spared. To a day of wrath they are brought

 

Psalm 10:15

Break the arm of the wicked and the evil, Seek out his wickedness, find none;

 

Proverbs 21:15

To do justice [is] joy to the righteous, But ruin to workers of iniquity.

 

And I really like this one:

 

Jeremiah 22:3

Thus said Jehovah: Do ye judgment and righteousness, And deliver the plundered from the hand of the oppressor, And sojourner, orphan, and widow, ye do not oppress nor wrong, And innocent blood ye do not shed in this place.

 

If that's not a call to smite evildoers, I don't know what is.

[Osprey]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Thanks for the input. I don't know what Bible the Russian Orthodox church uses, but I'm pretty certain it's not the King James. I'm going to try and do a bit of research on the Orthodox Church to see how she would likely reconcile her faith with her superheroic activities.

I reccomend a book called "Facing East" about a woman's conversion to Orthodoxy. It might introduce you to it better.

 

I don't know their exact Version or if it's in a preferred language, but i'm pretty sure it contains the same number of books as the Catholic Bible (Which other denominations would consider "extra").

 

GREAT THREAD!!

 

I'll have to remember these verses for my one Catholic character.

["V"]

Some other verses your heroine may like to quote at appropriate points, not so much about smiting the evil doers, but about their own role:

 

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

 

and possibly (from the "introduction" to the Book of Judges in which appear Samson, Ehud (God's left handed assassin) and lots of other interesting types)

 

Judges 2:18 And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them.

[Trebuchet]

These are some great suggestions. Thanks.

 

I don't want to make her sound like some type of bible-thumping nutcase whacking the heathens as she shouts out passages from the Old Testament. She is just a earnestly devout young woman who takes her faith seriously by attending church and trying to lead a good and moral life. I know plenty of ordinary people who live the same way.

 

It's an interesting role-playing challenge for an irreligious old heathen like me.

[Osprey]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

some type of bible-thumping nutcase whacking the heathens as she shouts out passages from the Old Testament.

Sounds like a Neat Villian Idea!

It's an interesting role-playing challenge for an irreligious old heathen like me.

 

Just be careful, I've heard of somthing called "Paschal's Wager." It's a bet Mr Paschal made something like this:

'If you live as though I practice a religion as though you believe in it (even though you don't) for a year, before the time is up - You WILL believe"

 

So watch out

[OddHat]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

I don't want to make her sound like some type of bible-thumping nutcase whacking the heathens as she shouts out passages from the Old Testament.

 

Why not? It's an interesting and time honored character design.

 

"The wages of sin are death, lawbreaker!" (fires 4d6 RKA)

 

Originally posted by Trebuchet

She is just a earnestly devout young woman who takes her faith seriously by attending church and trying to lead a good and moral life. I know plenty of ordinary people who live the same way.

 

Heck, where's the fun in that?

[lemming]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Thanks for the input. I don't know what Bible the Russian Orthodox church uses, but I'm pretty certain it's not the King James. I'm going to try and do a bit of research on the Orthodox Church to see how she would likely reconcile her faith with her superheroic activities.

For personal reasons I need to do some research as well into the Orthodox churches as well. If you find any decent links post them, I'll do the same.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Osprey

Just be careful, I've heard of somthing called "Paschal's Wager." It's a bet Mr Paschal made something like this:

'If you live as though I practice a religion as though you believe in it (even though you don't) for a year, before the time is up - You WILL believe"

 

So watch out

Heh. I try to live that way anyway. Many of the people I admire most are devout Christians, which may explain why I'm more sympathetic than most agnostics or atheists to religious faith in general. It seems to me the only morality most atheists aspire to is "If it feels good, do it." Hardly a principle for a good moral life unless you think hedonism = morality.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by lemming

For personal reasons I need to do some research as well into the Orthodox churches as well. If you find any decent links post them, I'll do the same.

Good idea. Here's a couple that look good:

 

http://ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/

 

http://www.fatheralexander.org/page6.htm

 

The second one is especially good; it's apparently run by a Russian Orthodox bishop although he covers Eastern Orthodoxy as a whole. I even found a great quote by St. Paul on doing good which would support her superheroism:

 

Let us not be weary in well-doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men

Galatians 6:9-10

[assault]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

It seems to me the only morality most atheists aspire to is "If it feels good, do it." Hardly a principle for a good moral life unless you think hedonism = morality.

 

On the other hand, there are moralities other than the Christian(/Islamic/Jewish/whatever) one.

 

This tends to be obscured in Western societies, where there is this tendency to assume that these values are universal.

 

They aren't.

 

Alan

[lemming]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

It seems to me the only morality most atheists aspire to is "If it feels good, do it." Hardly a principle for a good moral life unless you think hedonism = morality.

Hmm. Most that I know are "Treat others as you would want to be treated."

[Brandi]

One tack for your religious character... does she feel that her powers are a God-given blessing, or does she fear that she is being tempted to pride and sin by them?

 

I mean, 'With great power comes great responsibility' isn't a bad way to think of what it means to have superpowers even if it's not Biblical.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Brandi

One tack for your religious character... does she feel that her powers are a God-given blessing, or does she fear that she is being tempted to pride and sin by them?

 

I mean, 'With great power comes great responsibility' isn't a bad way to think of what it means to have superpowers even if it's not Biblical.

Hmmm, good question. I suspect the answer would be a bit of both. She is proud, and it's enough of a character flaw even her enemies have used it against her. On the other hand, she's a very straight arrow on the morality/sin front. No sex until marriage, yadda, yadda. However, her pride predated her acquisition of superpowers so I don't think she'd be worried about that per se. (She was an Olympic medalist in gymnastics before she got her powers.)

 

One of the reasons Pride is one of the Seven Deadly Sins is it's so insidious. It's often mistaken for confidence when it's actually arrogance.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by lemming

Hmm. Most that I know are "Treat others as you would want to be treated."

Note that that philosophy in no way prevents a life of total debauchery and hedonism as long as you're OK with your friends and aquaintances enjoying themselves too.

 

I'd like to think there's a bit more to life than just sex and drugs.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by assault

On the other hand, there are moralities other than the Christian(/Islamic/Jewish/whatever) one.

 

This tends to be obscured in Western societies, where there is this tendency to assume that these values are universal.

 

They aren't.

Since I'm a product of western civilization, I see no real reason to pretend to honor other systems of morality. I will evaluate other people's moral behavior by my standards, not by theirs. They may be valid for holders of those other systems. I won't even pretend to be objective about them.

 

A morals system where you can pick and choose which rules you adher to isn't a morals system at all; it's just window dressing for doing whatever you want.

[Kevin Scrivner]

A faith-based hero would tend to regard crime-fighting as a calling rather than just a mere job. It's something she was born to do, is compelled to do. We're not talking a Batman or Punisher style obsession, rather a deep-seated knowing, a confidence that this is what the character is supposed to be doing.

 

Also, based on Romans 13, a faith-based hero would tend to be an Adam West "support your local police" type rather than a Golden or Iron Age style vigilante. If your character is Russian Orthodox, this would be particularly so since Russia's leaders (even the atheistic ones) have been careful to exploit this passage for their own advantage. It says in part, "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. [The person in authority] is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment upon the wrongdoer." Since Paul was writing under the rule of the ruthless Roman Empire, many modern governments (even corrupt ones) look pretty good by comparison. The hero wouldn't be blind to her nation's or city government's faults but would feel compelled to obey out of conscience.

[assault]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Since I'm a product of western civilization, I see no real reason to pretend to honor other systems of morality. I will evaluate other people's moral behavior by my standards, not by theirs. They may be valid for holders of those other systems. I won't even pretend to be objective about them.

 

The point is that that cuts both ways.

 

Incidentally, there are other "western" moralities than the "Christian" one too.

 

Just for a laugh: it's entirely possible to not consider human life to possess intrinsic value without being a serial killer or a sociopath.

 

Alan