"Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

[Chris-M]

I want to build some grunt/minion types. I want them to actually be a bit tougher than normal grunts/minions, except that I want to model the idea that if they take a particularly good pop they will be stunned at the very least and quite probably knocked unconscious.

 

One way I might approach this is to give these guys a Vulnerability disad, something like "2X Stun from Normal Attacks that hit the Head Location." (That would be above the normal extra Stun from a head shot.) While I think that's doable, it actually won't work for me because I generally only use hit location for called shots (I try to run a little bit faster and looser combat to keep the pace quicker), and it's probably a bit too much anyway.

 

What I'd like to try is something like: "2X Stun from Normal Attacks if the attacker rolls a 6 or less and would normally hit" or "2X Stun from Normal Attacks if the attacker rolls less than half the number needed to hit" (I prefer the first idea, the 6 or less one, just because that way nothing has to be calculated each attack).

 

I realize this is probably a bit "gamey" for some folks' taste, but assuming one doesn't mind that, what do you think? How else could the desired effect (a particularly good shot does double Stun) be built?

[archermoo]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Are you looking to have these grunts be unusual in that a solid hit will at least STUN them, or are you looking for a way to model the idea that grunts in general should fold on a good hit?

 

If you're looking for a general rule, I'd say just deal with it as a campaign rule. Anyone that you have designated as a "grunt" get whatever critical hit rules you want to use applied to them. E.g. if a PC is attacking a grunt and they hit by 10 they do maximum damage. Or double damage if you feel that is more appropriate. Or even maximum stun STUN with normal BODY from a Normal attack.

 

If these guys are somehow more vulnerable to a well placed shot than most mooks are then I don't see any problems with the x2 damage from a "solid hit", however you want to define it. I'd probably call it a "common" occurrence.

[Beast]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Activate on defenses then mention to your players that there are called shots

using the hit location table just for minions will do

there are spots on it that normal damage is enhanced like head and vitals locations

 

I want to build some grunt/minion types. I want them to actually be a bit tougher than normal grunts/minions, except that I want to model the idea that if they take a particularly good pop they will be stunned at the very least and quite probably knocked unconscious.

 

One way I might approach this is to give these guys a Vulnerability disad, something like "2X Stun from Normal Attacks that hit the Head Location." (That would be above the normal extra Stun from a head shot.) While I think that's doable, it actually won't work for me because I generally only use hit location for called shots (I try to run a little bit faster and looser combat to keep the pace quicker), and it's probably a bit too much anyway.

 

What I'd like to try is something like: "2X Stun from Normal Attacks if the attacker rolls a 6 or less and would normally hit" or "2X Stun from Normal Attacks if the attacker rolls less than half the number needed to hit" (I prefer the first idea, the 6 or less one, just because that way nothing has to be calculated each attack).

 

I realize this is probably a bit "gamey" for some folks' taste, but assuming one doesn't mind that, what do you think? How else could the desired effect (a particularly good shot does double Stun) be built?

[sbarron]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

I've used "critical" hit rules where "less-than-half the roll needed to hit results in a crit." So, 13- to hit made 6- a crit, and 12- to hit made 5- a crit. A crit resulted in max damage.

 

Something else you might be able to use...we also had character tiers. A character on a lower tier could not crit someone on a higher tier. So, if your character was a Hero, he couldn't be critted by a Normal, but he could be critted by a Super-Heros. And Super-Heroes could only be critted by other Super-Heroes. We just had the 3 levels, Normal, Hero, and Super-Hero, but I suppose you could create as many as you needed.

 

So, maybe you could use these crit rules, but only for mooks and lesser opponents.

[lemming]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Or the Styrofoam armor defense.

 

Below a certain amount of damage, it pretty much bounces off. Over a certain amount, it does nothing for defense. You could even add a vulnerability to stuff that gets thru.

 

It's great for book keeping as well. Minions are either up or out.

[Sean Waters]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Say minions normally have a PD of 10, give these ones a PD of 5+10 PD on a 8- activation, and define the activation roll as the roll to hit. So, when the player rolls 8 or less to hit the additional PD doesn't work. Voila - tough mook with a glass jaw. 2 birds, one stone. Obviously you can adjust the numbers to suit your campaign.

 

Of course this approach only takes into account luck, not skill: a 10 OCV character hitting on a roll of 11 will do less damage than a 5 OCV character hitting on a roll of 8.

 

If you want skill to be a factor, buy the extra PD with RSR (OCV v DCV or some such) BUT that incolves a lot more rolling, potentially, which is a bad thing.

[OddHat]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Say minions normally have a PD of 10, give these ones a PD of 5+10 PD on a 8- activation, and define the activation roll as the roll to hit. So, when the player rolls 8 or less to hit the additional PD doesn't work. Voila - tough mook with a glass jaw. 2 birds, one stone. Obviously you can adjust the numbers to suit your campaign.

 

That looks backwards. Maybe I'm tired, but that power would be activating on 8 or greater, not 8 or less. It should be worth -1/2 or so, as if it were a 13- activation roll.

 

Nice solution, by the way.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Just make them normal grunts, and give them 50% Damage Reduction on a Activation Roll. Tougher, make the Activation Roll better; weaker make it worse.

[Chris-M]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Wow, guys, thanks for the all the great ideas! Outstanding work.

 

I considered things like Damage Reduction or extra PD with an activation roll (both great ideas -- especially Sean's where it's tied to what the attacker rolls), but I didn't want to go that route because it's an extra die roll and plus I wanted to make it more about the grunts being vulnerable to an attacking hero scoring a good/lucky hit (that is, I wanted the excitement of the moment to be about the player making a good roll rather than the GM making a bad one).

 

archermoo, what I want to do is build a special type of minion that is actually tougher than normal (more PD than your standard grunt) and can take a few more hits -- unless an attacker lands a particularly good hit, in which case they go down pretty easily. I guess the idea I'm going for is that these guys are, for grunts, pretty savvy fighters, and the way I'm going to describe fighting them (that is, the special effect of their unusually high PD) is that they're shifty characters who seem to naturally roll with the punches and never enable an opponent to hit them squarely (and I don't want to use the actual Roll-with-the-Punch mechanic because I'm trying to keep things simple -- they are grunts, after all).

 

I suppose, then, that I do want to do what Sean and sbarron suggested and tie it to hitting by less-than-half, because that way it is skill-based and it will encourage the player to put their levels in OCV and use OCV-boosting maneuvers, which will expose them to some additional risk because these minions have (again, for minions) high-damage attacks that, being minions, they won't hit with all that often. I like risk-reward dynamics, and this seems like it might be a fun way to make what will probably several different fights with "mere minions" more interesting and dramatic.

 

So probably what I'll do is combine Sean's idea about some (significant) portion of their PD being tied to the attacker's die roll in combination with a house critical hit rule that will work on all minions in the campaign. Together, they should achieve the effect I'm going for, I think.

 

sbarron, I absolutely love your idea about the tiered critical hit system, and I am seriously considering swiping it wholesale regardless of what I do with these special minions.

 

Thanks again for the help, guys!

[OddHat]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Hmm. I think I might give a minion such as you're describing Combat Luck, and then, as it's built into the Combat Luck anyway, rule that a particularly good hit by a PC counts as a situation where the luck just didn't help.

[Utech]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

You could also tie extra Armor to other factors. These might not work well for PCs, but for your purposes...

 

• Armor: Does not activate if attacker makes a PER roll prior to attack.
  
• Armor: Does not activate if attacker voluntarily takes an extra 1/2 phase to "aim" his attack.
  
• Armor: Does not activate if attacker's description of attack is dramatically appropriate.
  
• Armor: Only works vs. first attack in a given phase. (or first and second...)
  

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Good defenses, low Stun.

 

So, say, a 35 DEF minion will basically laugh off weak attacks, but if he only has 10 Stun, the one that finally nails him solidly will drop him like a rock.

[casualplayer]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Good defenses, low Stun.

 

So, say, a 35 DEF minion will basically laugh off weak attacks, but if he only has 10 Stun, the one that finally nails him solidly will drop him like a rock.

 

There it is!

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

There it is!

 

Whoomp, there it is! Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

I actually stole the idea from the D&D 4th Edition minion rules; they're about as tough and hard-hitting as a standard monster of their level, but they only have 1 hit point, so they go down in droves. Perfect for those 'four people against a small army' scenes.

[ghost-angel]

Re: "Glass Jaws" for Tough Minions?

 

Either what CrosshairCollie said - or Lower their CON so a solid hit Stuns them.