Potential New Player Needs Advice

[Kittfox]

okay, this is my first post on this site, and I've looked for something like this to make sure I'm not making people go over the same thing again, but couldn't find anything, so here goes. I have been playing D&D for a couple of years, but neither I nor my friends likes the look of 4th Edition, so we're abandoning ship. I'm starting up a Shadowrun campaign, but I don't think any of us are going to like it all that much, so I'm considering HERO as an alternative. Which comes to my questions.

 

1. Should I and my group, and I know you'll all be pretty biased towards this, get into HERO as opposed to some other system?

 

2. If so, should I start now, or wait for 6th Edition?

 

3. Is the genre book for my chosen genre (Champions) a wise investment?

 

4. How difficult would it be for someone new to the game to GM a campaign? This question comes from the fact that I'm ALWAYS the Gamemaster among my group.

 

Thank you for reading my post, and bless you if you can help answer my questions. Sorry about all the reading.

[Vulcan]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

1. Should I and my group' date=' and I know you'll all be pretty biased towards this, get into HERO as opposed to some other system?[/quote']

 

Yeah, you're right. We're all pretty biased toward HEROs.

 

HEROs has some very signifigant strengths.

1) HEROs can do nearly anything.

2) All the rules you need to learn are in the main book. Everything else is just background, options, and advice. D&D (for example) may seem less complicated, but you wind up learning even more new rules in every book they release.

3)HEROs has the single most flexible combat system. Period

4)HEROs has pretty much the most flexible character creation system. GURPS gives it a run for the money here, but it falls down in other places.

 

On the other hand, HEROs also has a few weaknesses, which pretty much derive point-for-point from its strengths.

1)Since HEROs can do anything, the GM winds up with a lot of editing, creating, and bookeeping to do.

2)Since you need a decent understanding of all the rules just to make a character, it doesn't lend itself well to 'just jumping in and learning as you go.'

3) The flexibilty of the combat system means that combat can take a long time. In the campaign I'm playing in, we've been in the same fight for 4 game sessions. Yes, one month of real time and we're still fighting.

4)The flexibility of the character creation system also lends itself to abuses, both accidental and deliberate. The GM and players both need to be ready to correct problems with characters as they come up.

 

But still, it's an awesome game

 

2. If so' date=' should I start now, or wait for 6th Edition?[/quote']

 

That's a harder question to answer.

 

It's going to be over a year before 6E is released. On the other hand, well, 6E is on the way. You will have to decide this based on your finacial and gaming situation. On top of that, there could be a lot of changes in the 6E system, some of which you may not like.

 

I can recommend 5ER wholeheartedly. 6E is still up in the air.

 

3. Is the genre book for my chosen genre (Champions) a wise investment?

 

I think so (although I haven't bought it yet; that's because I'm strapped for cash nowadays). It gives a good overview of what the world could be like with superheroes, and has good genre information and advice. If you're going to GM, I think it would be a great help. The UNTIL Power Guides will be useful if you intend to make your own villians, and the villian soursebook (Crooks, Criminals, and Conqurerers, I think is the title) provides ready-made villians.

 

I also recommend the various Ultimate books for the players, as they developn their characters. The books give all sorts of nifty ideas for characters - not just for the character builds, but background information as well.

 

4. How difficult would it be for someone new to the game to GM a campaign? This question comes from the fact that I'm ALWAYS the Gamemaster among my group.

 

Here is the fun part. The GM has a lot more power in HEROs, and with that power comes even more responsability. It is surprisingly easy to make a gambreaking character. The GM has to watch out for this, and try and keep it out of the game as best he can. Fortunately, in the GM section the rules say flat out "The GM may make any changes to the rules that he decides makes for a more interesting or fun game." It says so in writing, so you can shove that under the nose of your resident rules lawyer and tell him that you're changing the rule that's being abused...

 

Poke through the various forums here as time permits. A lot of issues have come up, been discussed, and answers proposed on these boards. There is also the FAQ and the questions Forum that can help as well. Finally... well, you've already figured out how to ask for advice here. We're all glad to put in our two cents worth.

 

The HERO System is a great game. Give it a chance and I think you'll agree.

[Vulcan]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

Heck, once you learn the system you can join the 6E discussion forum and help shape the future of HEROs.

[Beast]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

1 I'd say if you are unsure about investing 50$ for 5th ed revised only to have to get 6th later get SideKick the cut down version for 20$

it has 90%+ of all the powers,skills,perks,and talents in the game and is not a daunting read as FREd

 

2 start with Sidekick for now

 

3 for ideas yes unless you have your own universe aleady done and have no need for someone elses

 

4 not as hard as when you first started GMing since you already have the basics of role-playing already

you just need to be familar with your subject matter as with any game

if not fake it anyway

 

good luck

 

 

okay, this is my first post on this site, and I've looked for something like this to make sure I'm not making people go over the same thing again, but couldn't find anything, so here goes. I have been playing D&D for a couple of years, but neither I nor my friends likes the look of 4th Edition, so we're abandoning ship. I'm starting up a Shadowrun campaign, but I don't think any of us are going to like it all that much, so I'm considering HERO as an alternative. Which comes to my questions.

 

1. Should I and my group, and I know you'll all be pretty biased towards this, get into HERO as opposed to some other system?

 

2. If so, should I start now, or wait for 6th Edition?

 

3. Is the genre book for my chosen genre (Champions) a wise investment?

 

4. How difficult would it be for someone new to the game to GM a campaign? This question comes from the fact that I'm ALWAYS the Gamemaster among my group.

 

Thank you for reading my post, and bless you if you can help answer my questions. Sorry about all the reading.

[Chris-M]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

1. Should I and my group' date=' and I know you'll all be pretty biased towards this, get into HERO as opposed to some other system?[/quote']

 

It sounds like you want to run a superhero game, and imho there's no better system for a superhero game than Hero.

 

2. If so, should I start now, or wait for 6th Edition?

 

I'd start now. As others have said, 6e won't be out for another year, and Steve Long has said that he's not doing any kind of radical redesign, so learning and using 5e now will serve you well if you want to switch to 6e at some point after it comes out.

 

3. Is the genre book for my chosen genre (Champions) a wise investment?

 

You don't need the Champions genre book to run a superhero game with Hero -- everything you need is in the big, black book.

 

That said, the Champions book is very well written and contains lots of good and useful material. I've been playing Champions forever, and I picked it up really just for the sake of completeness -- I didn't actually expect it to be that useful in a practical, mechanical sense. But I was pleased to find that every other page was an idea or a piece of advice or an example of a character or power that made me think, "Hey, that's really nifty! I never thought of that before" (and really, Aaron Allston's such a good writer that I should have known better than to be surprised by this).

 

So if your cash flow is good and you can afford it, I'd definitely recommend it. If money's tight, you can hold off because it's by no means necessary.

 

4. How difficult would it be for someone new to the game to GM a campaign? This question comes from the fact that I'm ALWAYS the Gamemaster among my group.

 

So here's the paradox of Hero: While it seems very complex because you have a zillion options (and if you employ all zillion options, it certainly can be very complex), the truth is that by electing to utilize a narrow set of options you can run Hero as a very simple and straightforward system. The problem (and the paradox) is that it can be hard to figure out how to do that until after you know the system reasonably well.

 

To answer your question, I would say that, in all honesty, I don't think learning to run Hero is any more difficult than learning to run 3e D&D (and it's even simpler in some ways).

 

The big black book itself has some good advice on how to self-simplify the system, and here are a few personal tips on how to make your life as a GM a whole lot easier early on so that you can get something up and running right away while still learning the system (some of these won't make much sense now but will if you decide to delve into Hero):

 

 

• Don't allow any Power Frameworks initially. If necessary, raise allowed the base character point total to compensate, but in my personal experience, Power Frameworks often confuse new Champions players and also tend to give the player more options than he can meaningful really understand and use effectively early on.
  

 

• If you can afford to, buy at least the first UNTIL Super Powers Database book right away and only use powers out of that. Otherwise, only build (for players or villains) powers that have one Advantage and, at most, two Limitations. You can of course move away from this as quickly as your group's growing understanding of how to build powers allows.
  

 

• Once you're comfortable that you'll be using Hero for a long haul, the Hero Designer software is extremely, extremely useful and a very wise investment.
  

 

• Don't be super-concerned about all the combat modifiers and optional rules early on. I mean, if it helps you and your group learn to run combat more easily, and to have faster-paced combats early on, don't worry about Endurance until you're ready to handle it. Don't worry about very specific range modifiers until you're ready to add that in (in necessary, just have "close range" and "long range," where "long range" has a -2 or -3 penalty for something far away but still realistically hitable), and so forth.
  

 

That last point is very important, because a lot of people, players and GMs alike, coming from other systems like D&D have this tendency to want to experience "the rules as written." Hero actively wants you, the GM, to change, customize, or ignore whatever you feel like if it will enable you to run a fun session that you can handle. (Never let your players back you into a "but the rules say we can do this!" argument. )

 

Thank you for reading my post, and bless you if you can help answer my questions. Sorry about all the reading.

 

Don't worry about it! We're here to help, and it's always great to hear from someone who's looking into using the Hero System. If you have any other questions or concerns, don't be self-conscious or worry that they might be too simple or too nit-picky -- just fire away and we'll do our best to help.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

Pick up Sidekick, it's 15$ for the book or 7$ for the PDF. A small investment that gets you 95% of all the rules in the System.

 

I'd run a few test games in a genre you're familiar with and can easily deal with. Hero has a LOT of choices to make when you set a game up - which is the most daunting task.

 

And don't be afraid to ask us questions - we love to answer 'em. And, man, do we answer questions. We have more answers for the same question than we have posters to the boards sometimes.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

I highly recommend Hero...no big surprise.

 

If you do decide to take the plunge, I have a few suggestions for getting the game rolling. You mentioned Champions, so I'll assume you're planning on running a superhero game.

 

First: Look over the sections on Characteristics, Skills, and Disadvantages. When you have a pretty good handle on how all that stuff works, have your players make some simple characters, skilled normal level or so. Street thugs, villainous agents (like HYDRA from Marvel comics)...nothing too fancy. Spend a game session letting them rob a bank, hijack a ship, beat up old ladies, fight the cops, etc. Purpose: get the hang of basic character building and combat.

 

Next: Look over the Powers section, and give a good skim of the Advantages and Limitations sections. When you have the hang of that, help your players make some fairly simple, cheesy superheros, at about the 200 pt level. Fire Man with an Energy Blast, Buffalo Gal with high Strength and Running, etc. Let them beat up the characters they made last time. Purpose: more combat practice, somewhat more complicated character building

 

When you get the hang of that, you can delve into the really hairy stuff. Check out the sidebars for heavily Advantaged/Limited power examples. Check out the sample characters, paying special attention to their powers. Learn how to use Power Frameworks. Let your mind go hog-wild thinking up powers, and if you can't figure them out yourself, ask here. Let your players make full fledged 350 point superheros, and start the actual campaign.

 

This should ease you in to the game fairly painlessly. Or you could have all your players try to make Dr Strange or Impossible Man type characters for the first go-round, but you'll have a lot of head-scratching and blank looks as you go.

[CTaylor]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

I have been playing D&D for a couple of years, but neither I nor my friends likes the look of 4th Edition, so we're abandoning ship.

 

I've actually heard a lot of this lately. I think 4th edition will be a fun little board game sort of thing but they've lost the RPG crowd with this effort from what I can tell.

 

GMing hero is a task, that's a fact. You'll need to work small and ease into it, with everyone learning the rules at the same time. If you can I'd strongly advise finding someone who knows the rules and play with them a while (even if they don't want to GM) just to get the rules straight.

 

They may look intimidating, but the truth is, when you sit down and start playing it really isn't tough at all.

[Checkmate]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

As a fellow hater of D&D 4th Ed. Welcome to the forums!

 

1. Should I and my group, and I know you'll all be pretty biased towards this, get into HERO as opposed to some other system?

If you want to play a Superheroes game, I don't think there is a gaming system that does it better than HERO.

2. If so, should I start now, or wait for 6th Edition?

I wouldn't wait. It's over a year away, if not more.

3. Is the genre book for my chosen genre (Champions) a wise investment?

Honestly, if you are already familiar with the Superhero Genre (ie read a lot of comic books) you can give this book a pass. If you can only buy 1 other book aside from the core rule book, and you want to play Champions, I would recommend the Until Super Powers Database. This is an extensive list of example power builds. If you really want to get into the game quickly, I can't recommend this book enough.

 

The other thing that is absolutely a must have is Hero Designer. It is the character creation software. This thing is absolutely AWESOME.

4. How difficult would it be for someone new to the game to GM a campaign? This question comes from the fact that I'm ALWAYS the Gamemaster among my group.

GM'ing Champions can be a bit more challenging than other systems, there are a lot of things to keep track of. As you gain experience you learn how to streamline things (do I really need to know that my VIPER Agent has knowlege about Fine Wines when all he'll do is rob a bank?) and make things quicker, but in the begining expect some slow going battles.

 

HERO System gives TONS of optional rules for combat. In the begining I'd ignore most of them. I'd definately use Knockback for a Superheroes games, as that's just a staple of the genre.

Thank you for reading my post, and bless you if you can help answer my questions. Sorry about all the reading.

Aw shucks, that ain't nothin' compared to some of the novel writers around here.

 

P.S.

One final piece of advice is to check out http://www.herocentral.net . It is a site that is basically dedicated to online HERO System games. You'll find people running games in a play by post fashion. There are tons of example characters there, and example combats.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

Just to add to some of the good advice that has gone before.

 

Only you will, ultimately, be able to say if a system is good for you. Personally I have gone off crunchy systems for superheroes but love using Hero for pulp adventures, fantasy and other heroic type games.

 

If you are looking for a D&D replacement then I think Hero is a good move - I'm surprised Thia has not butted in here - go look at threads by Thia Halmides - he is a prolific contributer who recently converted from D&D. You might get an idea of what a convert looks and sounds like.

 

If you do want to run superheroes then make things easy for yourself. Explain to your group that you want to get a hang of the rules first. Ask them what kind of superhero they want (in broad terms like "really strong" or "he can fly amazingly fast and shoot beams from his eyes") and then you build everything. It takes away the real GM job in Hero character creation (auditing player builds for game disrupting munchkinism).

 

This aids you in a couple of ways.

 

1. It allows you to build your expertise and familiarity with the system.
   
2. It allows your players to concentrate on the playing aspects of the game - which are much simpler than the character construction aspects.
   
3. It means that you can easily keep the more complex things out of consideration until you are happy with managing them.
   
4. It means you can bring them to the board during construction to ask for advice (we LOVE doing that!).
   

Doc

[Tech]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

okay, this is my first post on this site, and I've looked for something like this to make sure I'm not making people go over the same thing again, but couldn't find anything, so here goes. I have been playing D&D for a couple of years, but neither I nor my friends likes the look of 4th Edition, so we're abandoning ship. I'm starting up a Shadowrun campaign, but I don't think any of us are going to like it all that much, so I'm considering HERO as an alternative. Which comes to my questions.

 

1. Should I and my group, and I know you'll all be pretty biased towards this, get into HERO as opposed to some other system?

 

Actually, although the majority of us really love this system, we are not at all opposed to helping you pick which system is right for you. I will say the hero system (the core rules) has survived this long because it truly is a good system. Some are intimidated by it, others aren't. I would say it's like learning to ride a bike: you might be afraid of falling but you learn anyways and eventually forget you were afraid in the first place.

 

To answer simply: if your finances allow, go for the Hero system.

 

2. If so, should I start now, or wait for 6th Edition?

 

I wouldn't wait for 6th edition.

 

3. Is the genre book for my chosen genre (Champions) a wise investment?

 

If you have a good grasp of the Superhero genre, it's not necessary but it is a good buy for many ideas, suggestions, insights, and so on.

 

 

4. How difficult would it be for someone new to the game to GM a campaign? This question comes from the fact that I'm ALWAYS the Gamemaster among my group.

 

1) Is there someone in your group who can tell a good story?

2) How difficult it'd be is directly related to how well you know the Hero System, much like any system.

3) Is there someone in your group who has already GM'd a system? Previous experience helps.

4) If you're always the GM, you can help someone else how to be a GM much faster. Perhaps there can be 2 GM's so both of you can alternate... I do that in my campaign. Always being the GM can be a drain on you so consider join-GM'ing.

A joint-GM warning: if done, be sure both GM's have the same understanding of what the campaign is like, will be like and it's goals or trouble will hit the campaign real fast.

 

Thank you for reading my post, and bless you if you can help answer my questions. Sorry about all the reading.

 

You're welcome; we like reading and helping.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Potential New Player Needs Advice

 

Regarding Shadowrun:

 

Shadowrun HERO

http://www.starherofandom.com/h_shadowrun/index.php

 

Cyberpunk HERO

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1419371#post1419371

 

Regarding your questions:

 

1. Should I and my group, and I know you'll all be pretty biased towards this, get into HERO as opposed to some other system?

 

Yes to both.

 

2. If so, should I start now, or wait for 6th Edition?

 

No, grab HERO System 5th Edition Revised and hold on for a wild ride. Or grab the cheap ass version called the HERO System SIDEKICK.

 

3. Is the genre book for my chosen genre (Champions) a wise investment?

 

If your running a Superhero genre than I highly recommend it. The authors have used almost 20yrs of Publishing and Experience to provide us with a great Genre support book, but it is not needed.

 

4. How difficult would it be for someone new to the game to GM a campaign? This question comes from the fact that I'm ALWAYS the Gamemaster among my group.

 

That is the tricky part and I have been playing HERO System since the early 1990s. The HERO System 5th Edition Revised is a big book, surprisingly light, but do not be intimidated. The table of contents and index are excellent. Unlike most other games it contains all the RULES. Everything else is just ice-cream on top.

 

HERO Designer Version 3.0 great for new GMs and Players for putting together characters. I highly recommend it.

 

The Discussion Boards are a friendly place and well moderated. Steve Long answers most all questions. Usually with page references from HERO System 5th Edition Revised. Please Post questions on the Champions Forums too. We are generally a helpful bunch.

 

HERO System & Champions Resources:

 

Killershrike's HERO System Resources & HERO Designer Files (Good breakdown of the HERO System)

http://www.killershrike.com/Default.aspx?tab=3

 

TheQuestionMan's Champions (Super) HERO Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31865

 

TheQuestionMan's HERO Adaptations, Compilations, & Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1554912#post1554912

 

 

More to come...

 

 

Thank you for reading my post, and bless you if you can help answer my questions. Sorry about all the reading

 

Compared to the reading and scanning you are about to engage in. No problemo dude.

 

 

Later Chummer

 

 

QM