The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Well, I am very impressed. It beats the crap outta my write up for another Kryptonian. I have similar items like the MP but yours is much more efficient. Also, my PC has 191 exp and we start PCs with 270 pts (150 free + 120 disads) so my net is 461. I see an improvement in my future and eyebrow raising by my GMs.

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Take a look at the PDF attachment of this post. Superman's super characteristic values are highlighted in red. He can increase his STR even further via his VPP.

 

edit: I just noticed that the Kryptonian Physiology List is not showing the common Limitations in the PDF output. If you have Hero Designer I highly recommend downloading the HDC files of the characters to get a better look at how they are constructed.

 

I like the 350 point version a lot. The stun seems low, even with his potential defenses maxed out (as 5thER has the dark specter of the stun multiple) but it's still a really good job of getting Supes into a starting format.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's an output with the limitations showing on the individual powers:

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's an output with the limitations showing on the individual powers:

 

A very well done 400 point Supes, one that could actually grow into his Silver Age power levels (or something like them) over the course of a campaign. Can't rep you again, yet.

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

EEK! 6th Ed. My Kryptonite!! Heh. We stopped at 5th. Being unemployed and finding that 5th satisfied all our needs (there are 6 in the gaming group and the cost would have been $400 for the base books) we could not justify the expense. However, I see the gist of your write up just fine.

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Rep me again? Sorry..I'm a newbie and I'm still learning the abbreviated lingo. Rep=reply? Is it kosher to give out one's email on this board? It beats having to reply back and forth here. Just asking.

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Rep me again? Sorry..I'm a newbie and I'm still learning the abbreviated lingo. Rep=reply? Is it kosher to give out one's email on this board? It beats having to reply back and forth here. Just asking.

 

To "rep" a post is to give the user reputation by hitting the star icon at the bottom of the post.

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Ok. By the way. Since I am pestering you with questions I hope you don't mind a couple more. (1) What is IIRC? (2)On the kryptonite & red solar radiation...did you only give it a -1/4 because neither by themselves common enough to warrant a -1/4 each?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

A very well done 400 point Supes' date=' one that could actually grow into his Silver Age power levels (or something like them) over the course of a campaign. Can't rep you again, yet.[/quote']

 

Thanks, that was one of my unstated goals when upgrading him from a Multipower to a VPP.

 

re: A character with XP spent during a game vs. a character just built with higher points

A character built with the latter method is always going to be a more efficient build.

 

For this reason I think most GM's would be open to the idea of letting players rebuild their PC during a long running campaign once or twice even if it doesn't involve a 'radiation accident'.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Ok. By the way. Since I am pestering you with questions I hope you don't mind a couple more. (1) What is IIRC? (2)On the kryptonite & red solar radiation...did you only give it a -1/4 because neither by themselves common enough to warrant a -1/4 each?

 

1. IIRC = if i recall correctly

2. Yes.

 

Many board members would argue that it warrants a (-0) value since they are such a rare occurrence in the source material (the JL:Animated and more recent comics). I include it as a starting point of the Kryptonian 'template'. The 'Kingdom Come' version of the character arguably has bought off the Limitation with XP .

 

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I dropped the RSR idea as it would just bog down the playability (make a roll for every use of a power) of an already very complicated game-time character (VPP!).

Yes, I have spent many a session on trying to calculate the points for various power constructs.

 

I went with IIF on the PC character sheet since the wearer can communicate via Mind Link with the ring's AI without it being obvious. Remember, the powers are technically still the ring's and their 'Obvious' nature is reflected on that character sheet.

This makes perfect sense now. You would be double tapping an OIF limitation since it's already taken care of with the obvious nature...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I like the 350 point version a lot. The stun seems low' date=' even with his potential defenses maxed out (as 5thER has the dark specter of the stun multiple) but it's still a really good job of getting Supes into a starting format.[/quote']

 

Well, if using the DC Animated Universe as a point of reference (not the only influence on these builds but certainly one of the biggest) these 'starting versions' of a 350 point(5er) or 400 point (6e) Superman are more representative of the early Superman:TAS. It was the rare episode that had him fight someone of equal power so there was little reason for him to have a higher STUN value. Later on, he should have been shown to be clearly more powerful (and experienced except for Batman) than the rest of the the Justice League during that series 1st season but he was 'Worfed' by the writers. They corrected that mistake later during the JL:Unlimited run though.

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

10 8) Regeneration: Healing 2 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (40 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Does Not Work On Some Damage Two or More Types of Damage (Magic, Alien diseases, etc..; -1/2), Always On (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2)

 

I see you took the magic vulnerability here. However, some folks on another thread told me Supes has a problem breaking mystic bonds and foci. Have you seen or read this?

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

72 Superspeed Tricks: Multipower, 90-point reserve, (90 Active Points); all slots Limited Power Affected by Adjustment powers as an EC (-1/4)

 

This is from the Scarlet Speedster write up. Could you explain this limitation please?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I see you took the magic vulnerability here. However' date=' some folks on another thread told me Supes has a problem breaking mystic bonds and foci. Have you seen or read this?[/quote']

 

Yes, I just happen to disagree with their logic (including the writers at DC). Superman's vulnerability to magic stems back to the first stories with Mr. Mxyzptlk who had reality bending powers described as '5th dimensional magic'. His abilities would work equally well on any other League member and were not dependent on a 'limitation' of Superman's abilities. But since the writers fell into the trap of making Superman more and more powerful during the Silver Age they kept using Mr. Mxyzptlk more often as his own power level was already sufficient to present a real challenge to Superman over many different stories. Since his powers were 'magic' it finally got twisted into the current idea that Superman is vulnerable to 'magic'.

 

Look at it another way. They have had a JLA vs. Avengers crossover where Superman fights Thor (with his magic hammer). But Superman WON the fight. If he's really vulnerable to magic, the hammer should have been the trump card. But it wasn't. Thor wasn't hitting Superman with magical energy, he was hitting him hard(er) due to the hammer's magical enhancements (which are also really just another form of alien high-tech according to the current stories). Fortunately Superman is really good at shrugging off the effects of getting hit really hard.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

This is from the Scarlet Speedster write up. Could you explain this limitation please?

 

This is the 5er version of the Unified Power Limitation 'introduced' in 6e (which eliminated EC's). There are references to it in the 5e/5er rules FAQ. Normally, when any adjustment power like Drain is used against one power in an EC All the other powers in the EC are equally affected. This Limitation allows this logic to be applied to powers that aren't in or don't otherwise qualify* for inclusion in an EC for 5e/5er characters (*like powers that don't cost END by default).

 

If a villain 'drains' Flash's 'superspeed' it affects his entire Multipower, not just the individual power targeted by the drain. This makes building adjustment based characters much cheaper and easier to use (see the partial write-up of the Parasite).

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Superman's vulnerability to magic stems back to the first stories with Mr. Mxyzptlk who had reality bending powers described as '5th dimensional magic'

 

I remember him. That makes sense...I never did like the idea either but I did not know about the history behind it and the writer's faux pas.

 

They have had a JLA vs. Avengers crossover where Superman fights Thor (with his magic hammer). But Superman WON the fight.

 

I actually have this issue...somewhere. You're right here too. Superman should have just about died in that fight and I remember thinking someone dropping the ball by letting him win.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

The Magic vulnerability has waxed and waned since its introduction. Depending on when a given reader started reading, the current vulnerability interpretation could make Supes much weaker, or much more resistant, to magic than any specific reader might expect. This tends to happen when characters are in publication for decades.

 

Speaking of Super Faux Pas, the original Lex Luthor had a full head of red hair. When he reappeared, the new artist pulled the visual of one of his cronies from his first appearance, and Lex has been hairless ever since.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I strayed away from my 6e 400 point update project to see if I could apply the basic Superman VPP concept I used to a 5er 250 point version of the character.

 

Comments welcome.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Speaking of Super Faux Pas' date=' the original Lex Luthor had a full head of red hair. When he reappeared, the new artist pulled the visual of one of his cronies from his first appearance, and Lex has been hairless ever since.[/quote']

 

Actually he got visually mixed up another Supes villain. the the then bald and still human Ultrahumanite is what I'd heard but the spirit of the point is intact

[Checkmate]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

According to the old DC HEROES game by Mayfair Games, Superman's vulnerability to Magic stems from Krypton not having anyone who could do magic. It also talked about people who could use magic were called Homo-Magi. Not everyone could learn magic you had to be born with the ability.

 

I don't know if any of that still applies or if it is even cannon, but there it is.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

And here is a 250 point Batman with the serial # filed off that I built to play in a Dark Champions game a couple of years ago (I ended up going with a Black Canary knock-off instead).

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37829[/ATTACH]

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here is part of a work still in progress of updating my 5e starting version of Green Arrow to 6e.

 

It has always bothered me that in the past that such characters had to be built with a Multipower and Slots where each new slot required additional XP be spent.

 

The following is an attempt to update Green Arrow to the "Gadget/Utility-Belt VPP behaving as a Multipower" model discussed in this old thread.

 

64 Bow & Quiver of Arrows: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 24 base + 60 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (114 Active Points); Conditional Power Arrow Based Gadgets Only (Limited Variety of Arrows Carried At One Time (12-24, GM discretion) Can Be Changed At Base. Effectively Operates As Multipower with Current Slot Selection; -1/2); all slots OAF (Bow & Quiver of Arrows; Requires Multiple Foci or functions at reduced effectiveness; -3/4)

[Notes: Technically, the Quiver of Arrows is OIF and the Bow is OAF. The only special quality of the Bow itself is collapsibility when not in use. If broken, a generic 'sporting good store replacement' could be used in a pinch with possible penalties to OCV and/or Range depending on its quality. All slots need an additional (-3/4) in Limitations beyond Focus (usually Range Based on STR, Charges & either Beam or Can Be Deflected). This represents that most of the arrows can still be used at no range when a bow is not available (OCV penalties may apply). ]

0 1) Broad-Head Arrow: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6-1, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects (Inobvious to [Hearing Sense Group]; +1/4) (60 Active Points); 12 Charges (-1/4), Beam (-1/4), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) Real Cost: 24

0 2) Boxing-Glove Arrow: Blast 8d6, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects (Inobvious to [Hearing Sense Group]; +1/4) (60 Active Points); Beam (-1/4), Range Based On Strength (-1/4), 12 Charges (-1/4) Real Cost: 24

0 3) Flash-Grenade Arrow: Sight, Hearing and Touch Groups Flash 6d6, Area Of Effect (8m Radius; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Range Based On Strength (-1/4), 12 Charges (-1/4), Can Be Deflected (-1/4) Real Cost: 24

 

 

The included slots are just a small sample to illustrate the overall VPP construction. I'm not so worried about the individual slot constructions as I am the basic VPP framework since adding additional trick arrow slots* does not cost any more points using this method.

 

*Lists of the various trick arrows he has used can be found at:

http://www.comicvine.com/trick-arrow/18-55833/

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Trick_Arrows

 

I am also tempted to try and separate out the VPP-Only "No Skill Roll Required" Advantage from the basic VPP to better define that it is Oliver Queens' skill and training in setting up the layout of his quiver of trick arrows that allows him to use it so effectively. I'm just not sure if it's worth the extra trouble.

 

Comments encouraged!

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Presumably by now he would have something equivalent in function to the boxing-glove arrow but that doesn't look quite as silly.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Yeah, but this thread is about building starting versions of the characters.

 

 

And I don't think it's silly at all (and neither does Hawkeye!)

 

 

While I'm posting pics, this is how GA pulls off 'auto-fire' archery: