The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I'm surprised you didn't take Black Adam as an independent Hunted.

 

I didn't for the same reasons I don't single out Luthor or Braniac for Superman.

These characters are primarily designed to be used as part of a group (team-comic).

The major solo story villains can still show up as part of major story arcs but since there are so many of them from so many team members they aren't really worth any more points.

The character's actions will create new antagonisms in game when they foil the villain's eventual "plans to take over the world!"TM.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

re: Universal Translator for Captain Marvel

 

A better fit might be some sort of "Deduction" of Solomon. But just buying Limited Skill Levels towards Deduction seemed to overlap the Overall Levels in the VPP but could work as well.

 

Here's another option I looked at but seemed too expensive for its utility:

 

8 Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group) (40 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Limited Power Only what can be deduced (-1), Only In Alternate Identity (-1/4)

[palaskar]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Awesome! I never believed that these characters could be done with any sort of faithfulness to the material on 350 points. Repped!

 

Can you do the JLA-level Marvel characters (Avengers, some of the Avengers...etc.) I've tried to write-up Pheonix (Jean grey version) but failed. Of course, this in the days before Magascale. I'd like to see Doc Strange and Iron Man if nothing else -- they're some of my favorite characters for reasons I don't really grasp.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Awesome! I never believed that these characters could be done with any sort of faithfulness to the material on 350 points. Repped!

 

Can you do the JLA-level Marvel characters (Avengers, some of the Avengers...etc.) I've tried to write-up Pheonix (Jean grey version) but failed. Of course, this in the days before Magascale. I'd like to see Doc Strange and Iron Man if nothing else -- they're some of my favorite characters for reasons I don't really grasp.

 

Thanks.

I have already done a quick and dirty version of Marvel's Thor (and here's a 250 point version) And here is a thread with Captain America's Shield and Wolverine's Claws built balanced against one another. The full characters wouldn't be too tough if sticking to the 'starting character' motif. But that would make building Phoenix tough since she really began as Marvel Girl (who i-Mind was inspired by). Iron-Man, Thing and Hulk as well as many other Marvel icons are so close to the 'base template' of HERO that trying to build them on a budget would come very close to several published characters (Defender, several published bricks and Grond) and feel like trying to update those published characters. I had more points to play with with the JLA because I enforced a lower than standard Champions level of DEX & SPD across the board. My Flash stands out in the group but would barely qualify as a 'speedster' in the published Champions Universe.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

A recent thread about END reminded me that I need to make a small change to Superman's "...speeding..." and Captain Marvel's "The Speed of Mercury/Wisdom of Solomon" VPP slots.

+4 Overall (48 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Limited Power Not in the presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation (-1/4), Unified Power (-1/4) 5

 

Having them only Cost END to Activate instead of every Phase is a better way to represent using it towards long term repetitive tasks as a form of super-speed.

[palaskar]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Thanks.

I have already done a quick and dirty version of Marvel's Thor (and here's a 250 point version) And here is a thread with Captain America's Shield and Wolverine's Claws built balanced against one another. The full characters wouldn't be too tough if sticking to the 'starting character' motif. But that would make building Phoenix tough since she really began as Marvel Girl (who i-Mind was inspired by). Iron-Man, Thing and Hulk as well as many other Marvel icons are so close to the 'base template' of HERO that trying to build them on a budget would come very close to several published characters (Defender, several published bricks and Grond) and feel like trying to update those published characters. I had more points to play with with the JLA because I enforced a lower than standard Champions level of DEX & SPD across the board. My Flash stands out in the group but would barely qualify as a 'speedster' in the published Champions Universe

.

 

Hmm. Thanks. I always imagined that Iron Man would clock in right about a 75 point multipower for his blasts: 10d6 Autofire EB for the Pulse Cannons (IIrc), 10d6 EB for the regular Repulsors, 15d6 EB for the full-out blast that does Knockback to him, etc.

Obviously, I'd have to bring it back to Defender-levels.

[randian]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Hyper-Man, I have some questions about your 6E Superman and Captain Marvel writeups.

 

1) Why are they taking the "Always On" limitation on their Resistant Protection? As a Persistent power it neither needs nor is eligible for that limitation.

2) Why do you have Flight with Variable Advantage in a Power Pool? Unnecessary and wasteful. Seems like that should be handled the same way you did Hand Attack: "Flight, any +1 worth of advantages, 45 active, 30 real". Gets them 22m Flight rather than 15. Not huge, but nice. Or keep them at 15m and make that slot 30 active instead of 45.

3) They have slots titled "+5 Overall". Overall what?

 

I am amused how easy they are to take out so long as you can force them to chase you. Stay and fight and they take no stun on average from a 15d6 attack assuming DI+Negation as the two slots. Actually, that's not quite true, because low rolls don't heal you, but it's close enough. Get them to chase and since they have no movement powers outside their pools they have to switch a slot to Movement. Then they're either doing too few dice (9d6) to hurt you or taking so much damage they won't last more than half a turn against a couple of 12d6 villains. If they can hit Superman's modest 8 DCV, they're doing 11 stun per hit assuming Superman has DI as the other slot. Two phases each and Superman is done (~6 stun left and time to retreat) and could easily be unconscious with a little luck.

[JmOz]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Randian: regarding persistant: no power (except HA) requires any limitation, but it is legal for a persistant power to take it (For that matter normaly you have to buy advantages to make it persistant first). As a GM I look carefuly at this kind of build, but by the book it is allowed. Superman definatly has a history with it

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Superman has often been disadvantaged by his Resistant Defenses being always on - it increases the challenge of maintaining his secret ID. Whether that's good enough for the limitation in my game, or your game, may vary, but it's certainly come up enough in some eras of the comics to merit a -1/4.

 

Power Girl nearly died in an old JLE because no one could operate on her to deal with internal injuries. That seems like a limitation in a more combat-driven game where maintaining your secret ID isn't often a focus of the game.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Hyper-Man, I have some questions about your 6E Superman and Captain Marvel writeups.

 

1) Why are they taking the "Always On" limitation on their Resistant Protection? As a Persistent power it neither needs nor is eligible for that limitation.

2) Why do you have Flight with Variable Advantage in a Power Pool? Unnecessary and wasteful. Seems like that should be handled the same way you did Hand Attack: "Flight, any +1 worth of advantages, 45 active, 30 real". Gets them 22m Flight rather than 15. Not huge, but nice. Or keep them at 15m and make that slot 30 active instead of 45.

3) They have slots titled "+5 Overall". Overall what?

 

I am amused how easy they are to take out so long as you can force them to chase you. Stay and fight and they take no stun on average from a 15d6 attack assuming DI+Negation as the two slots. Actually, that's not quite true, because low rolls don't heal you, but it's close enough. Get them to chase and since they have no movement powers outside their pools they have to switch a slot to Movement. Then they're either doing too few dice (9d6) to hurt you or taking so much damage they won't last more than half a turn against a couple of 12d6 villains. If they can hit Superman's modest 8 DCV, they're doing 11 stun per hit assuming Superman has DI as the other slot. Two phases each and Superman is done (~6 stun left and time to retreat) and could easily be unconscious with a little luck.

 

1. I think Hugh and JmOz covered this one nicely.

2. This one is a little more complicated. Partly to show the character can fit within some sort of campaign 'caps'. If you take a look at the 5er version that I used as a template you'll notice that it used a Multipower instead of a VPP. That gave it a clear direction for spending XP (more slots to the point of upgrading to a VPP). Since the new VPP rules in 6e were more flexible regarding active and real points I decided to use it instead. This removes the need to worry about individual slots as a point balancing issue. However, the character would look pretty drab without the example slots. Since this is supposed to be a starting version of the character I think it's highly appropriate for some of the slots to appear 'underpowered'. It boils down to GM choice.

3. That's just an output quirk of Hero Designer. They are Overall Skill Levels which are a great way to model super-speed. There is already a precedence in the rules as +3 allow you to perform tasks 1 step down the Time Chart (something that normally takes 5 minutes takes 1 minute).

 

I think the inclusion of the Overall Levels should address the rest of your comments.

 

Superman is not a straight brick. He is a speedster/brick and as such is neither as fast as a straight speedster (Flash) or as tough in a straight slug fest as a straight brick. Fighting smart is not just helpful, it is usually necessary.

[New Hero]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

How would you build the Justice League Communication earpiece? I would think that it would be a Mind Link of some sort, but I suck at building Powers. (Please keep in mind that I'm still using the 5E Revised Rules). Thanks and I love this thread!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

How would you build the Justice League Communication earpiece? I would think that it would be a Mind Link of some sort' date=' but I suck at building Powers. (Please keep in mind that I'm still using the 5E Revised Rules). Thanks and I love this thread! [/quote']

 

Well, if we assume that Batman would only supply his teammates with something he could guarantee couldn't be listened in on by others (using Earth level tech at least) I would build it as follows:

 

12 Justice League Communicator: Mind Link , Human class of minds, Specific Group of Minds, Any distance, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x8) (40 Active Points); Only With Others Who Have Mind Link (-1), IIF Fragile (Wayne Industries Encrypted Communications Earwig; -1/2), Sense Affected As More Than One Sense Hearing (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

 

If you're not so worried about the guarantee aspect you could go with:

 

7 Justice League Communicator: Radio Perception/Transmission (Radio Group), MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (22 Active Points); Limited Power Only to communicate with other Justice League Communicators (-1), IIF Fragile (Wayne Industries Encrypted Communications Earwig; -1/2), Sense Affected As More Than One Sense Hearing (-1/2)

[New Hero]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Cool! Thanks for the quick reply!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's my 6e update on The Flash.

Definitely seems lower powered than 5e version due to the loss of figured characteristics. This is also partly due to my attempt at using the same VPP upgrade that I did with Superman and Captain Marvel. I'm sure the basic combat power of the character could be improved by going with a more traditional (but limited) Multipower instead.

 

As always, comments welcome.

 

Latest update: http://www.herocentral.net/herocentral/get/files/premium/The+Flash+6e.HTML

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

As always' date=' comments welcome.[/quote']

 

Since your VPP construction wouldn't mean he pays any more points to do it, you can use Transforms to reflect his ability to put things together or take things apart almost instantly (like taking apart the engine to a car that's running -- needless to say it stops running soon afterward).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Since your VPP construction wouldn't mean he pays any more points to do it' date=' you can use Transforms to reflect his ability to put things together or take things apart almost instantly (like taking apart the engine to a car that's running -- needless to say it stops running soon afterward).[/quote']

 

Yeah, it certainly opens up the superspeed sfx for the character. XP could then be spent on skills including CSL's to increase the character's power level without actually increasing his super speed powers.

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's my 6e update on The Flash.

Definitely seems lower powered than 5e version due to the loss of figured characteristics. This is also partly due to my attempt at using the same VPP upgrade that I did with Superman and Captain Marvel. I'm sure the basic combat power of the character could be improved by going with a more traditional (but limited) Multipower instead.

 

As always, comments welcome.

 

Overall, I like it. I've often used VPPs for my own Flash homage characters; they come up with so many odd power applications. As a player, if I were worried about being under-powered, I'd probably talk with the GM about using a MP and a Power Skill at the start of the campaign, with an eye towards moving to a VPP later.

 

Not sure about Unified Power in a VPP. I think it's rules legal, but I'd have to look over the rules on Drains and VPPs again before I'd use it as a GM.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Overall, I like it. I've often used VPPs for my own Flash homage characters; they come up with so many odd power applications. As a player, if I were worried about being under-powered, I'd probably talk with the GM about using a MP and a Power Skill at the start of the campaign, with an eye towards moving to a VPP later.

 

Not sure about Unified Power in a VPP. I think it's rules legal, but I'd have to look over the rules on Drains and VPPs again before I'd use it as a GM.

 

Thanks, your Always and the rest of the New Circle were a big influence on how I approached the characters.

 

I agree that Unified Power could be abusive in the wrong campaign setting but If I were to run a game with these characters as PC's i would certainly have things like the Parasite show up.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Unified Power on the VPP means the same thing it means to any other group of powers - negative adjustment powers affect them all. So if the Flash set out above is hit with a Running Drain, it will drain every power in the VPP. I would rule that this applies to powers he later switches to - if his Running has been drained 20 meters, and he switches to 60 meters Swimming, he only gets 20 meters swimming, since it's drained the same AP.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Unified Power on the VPP means the same thing it means to any other group of powers - negative adjustment powers affect them all. So if the Flash set out above is hit with a Running Drain' date=' it will drain every power in the VPP. I would rule that this applies to powers he later switches to - if his Running has been drained 20 meters, and he switches to 60 meters Swimming, he only gets 20 meters swimming, since it's drained the same AP.[/quote']

 

Exactly.

[randian]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's my 6e update on The Flash. Definitely seems lower powered than 5e version due to the loss of figured characteristics. This is also partly due to my attempt at using the same VPP upgrade that I did with Superman and Captain Marvel.

I really like the flavor of the powers with a VPP. The Scarlet Speedster has very respectable attacks, I count 11.5d6 Armor-Piercing Accurate at Full End on Hand Attack or 14d6 Armor-Piercing at 0 End on Hand Attack, when combining "Super-Speed Punch" with "Passing Strike". His low defenses, poor CON, and unspectacular DCV make his offense moot, though, because the Scarlet Speedster would be wise to avoid combat at all costs. He's "one and done" when it comes to taking hits.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

.... He's "one and done" when it comes to taking hits.

 

This actually matches the source material. He is after all just a normal guy who can move really fast.

He should be spending most Phases using Flying Dodge or several Overall Levels dedicated to DCV.

 

Also remember, these character are not balanced to Champions Universe standards. They have much lower average SPD and CV. They are also intended to be the starting versions of the characters, not the combat veterans portrayed in the comics today or in later seasons of Justice League Unlimited.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's my 6e update on Wonder Woman.

 

As with Flash, her power level suffers with the loss of 'characteristics formerly known as figured'.

I traded out the Fires of Hestia for a usable Tiara. My reasoning is that unlike the others so far (Superman, Captain Marvel and Flash) she has not learned or been granted the full breadth of her powers. She is a more seasoned combatant though.

 

As always, comments welcome.

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's my 6e update on Wonder Woman.

 

As with Flash, her power level suffers with the loss of 'characteristics formerly known as figured'.

I traded out the Fires of Hestia for a usable Tiara. My reasoning is that unlike the others so far (Superman, Captain Marvel and Flash) she has not learned or been granted the full breadth of her powers. She is a more seasoned combatant though.

 

As always, comments welcome.

 

Overall I like her, even if there's stuff I'd have done differently.

 

Two thoughts, one trivial, one (to me at least) less so. First, why NCC Universal Translator? Mechanically I see how it works, but I don't remember WW having unreliable language skills any more than any other comic book character. Of course, I haven't followed the character lately, but I did read a bunch of Golden Age WW and some Silver back when I was making my homage characters.

 

Second, I'd think about finding some way of getting her ability to compell truth back on the character sheet. It was a core part of even the earliest versions of the character (her creator was also the inventor of the polygraph). Either directly with mind control or indirectly with a Sense, it should be built into the Lasso.

 

Um, the whole "Helpless when in bondage" thing is also really part of the core character. Marston was in a polyamorous BDSM relationship, and much of his thinking on Male-Female relationships made it into his work on the character.

 

She should also probably have a better Breakfall skill. She can jump off of buildings unharmed even in the Golden Age.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Overall I like her, even if there's stuff I'd have done differently.

 

Two thoughts, one trivial, one (to me at least) less so. First, why NCC Universal Translator? Mechanically I see how it works, but I don't remember WW having unreliable language skills any more than any other comic book character. Of course, I haven't followed the character lately, but I did read a bunch of Golden Age WW and some Silver back when I was making my homage characters.

 

Second, I'd think about finding some way of getting her ability to compell truth back on the character sheet. It was a core part of even the earliest versions of the character (her creator was also the inventor of the polygraph). Either directly with mind control or indirectly with a Sense, it should be built into the Lasso.

 

Um, the whole "Helpless when in bondage" thing is also really part of the core character. Marston was in a polyamorous BDSM relationship, and much of his thinking on Male-Female relationships made it into his work on the character.

 

She should also probably have a better Breakfall skill. She can jump off of buildings unharmed even in the Golden Age.

 

I was basing this version a little more on her first Justice League Animated appearance than I did with my 5e version. She didn't get full access to the powers of the Lasso until her mother activated them and building a decent version of those abilities just tied up too many points. The idea that the Tiara was a viable weapon (as pointed out by others on this thread or the my original WW thread) seemed to make more sense. The Universal Translator with NCC is sort of the same. She has the potential to understand all languages but it's not perfect to start out with. As for the helpless in bondage stuff, I was going a little more for the modern version of the character. Aspects of that are still there in the sense that her STR goes down by 15 points if her belt is removed. Her Breakfall roll would be 16- if she applies her Overall Levels from the Sandals. Of course the Sandals also allow her to Fly (Variable Advantage set to usable as Flight).