The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Second, I'd think about finding some way of getting her ability to compell truth back on the character sheet. It was a core part of even the earliest versions of the character (her creator was also the inventor of the polygraph). Either directly with mind control or indirectly with a Sense, it should be built into the Lasso.

 

By request, here's an updated version:

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Very nice, wish I could rep you again.

 

I use the Ego Drain myself for lower point total WW homages; it's one of the cheapest way I've found to get the Lasso's effect before going for pure cheese. I'll also sometimes throw it into a MP with a few other mental effects and powers, but then I really do feel like I'm getting cheesy.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's a 6e update on my favorite Green Lantern of sector 2814, Hal Jordan and his Power Ring.

 

Sorry for those of you without Hero Designer, the PDF export doesn't work for Followers/Computers and I don't have a good 6e alternative export for the Power Ring.

(It's writeup didn't change too much from the 5e version linked in my sig)

 

As always, comments welcome.

 

HM

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Nice! I'd give the Ring it's own END bat, as it's equipment, recharged by the power battery, rather than the continuing charge (which feels slightly off to me). I seem to remember recent GLs exhausting their rings faster some of the time. The battery would be a second piece of equipment with it's own AI and set of powers.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Nice! I'd give the Ring it's own END bat' date=' as it's equipment, recharged by the power battery, rather than the continuing charge (which feels slightly off to me). I seem to remember recent GLs exhausting their rings faster some of the time. The battery would be a second piece of equipment with it's own AI and set of powers.[/quote']

 

I considered going to that level of detail but decided against it. I think an END Battery would just add more unnecessary bookkeeping. I'd rather focus on the wearer's END use. I'd say that any pushing of powers beyond the 90 active limit would run down the charge in less than 24 hours. That and stats for the Lantern itself are all campaign background stuff better to be left vague so the GM could fill in the blanks later on. I'm still not 100% satisfied but the main thing I wanted to the build to show was that not just anyone could put on the ring and be as good using it as Hal (like published examples of Green Arrow trying to use it). Even though someone like Batman might have more potential (possibly a higher EGO even than Hal) he would still be clumsier using a ring without a LOT of training (invested XP). I just couldn't figure out a way to show that with a standard focus build that didn't seem excessively clunky. The rings are Universal Foci (if they have a charge whoever puts them on can use them) but not everyone is equally skilled in their use.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

The Ring is extremely flexible -- within its limitations it can do just about anything the wielder can imagine. While it's been used for some fairly silly constructions it can also be used in other creative ways (I remember a time when GL ran into a drunk driver and imprisoned him in a green bottle until the police picked him up).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

The Ring is extremely flexible -- within its limitations it can do just about anything the wielder can imagine. While it's been used for some fairly silly constructions it can also be used in other creative ways (I remember a time when GL ran into a drunk driver and imprisoned him in a green bottle until the police picked him up).

 

Oh absolutely.

One thing I've noticed re-building these characters with 6e and the updated VPP rules is that Superman even with a much smaller VPP still has the potential for a significantly higher STR (120) than any GL can achieve with Telekinesis (100 TK STR with the 150 maximum active points). This means one of two things. I didn't make the ring powerful enough (I really don't think so but I've been wrong before). Or, a GL can only get higher than a 100 'telekinetic sfx' STR by just using the VPP to gain extra STR and Stretching. Seems counter-intuitive but I like it better than building the ring on higher (galactic champions level) points. I am also trying to keep the power level for all characters close to that established in the Animated Justice League.

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Thematically, Superman should have higher Str than any GL can get through the ring alone. He's Superman. Of the GLs, only entities like the Living Planet GL or Daxamite GL should be more powerful one on one.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I tend to agree but the pre-crises fight between superman and Green Lantern/Hal Jordan (possessed by a telepathic alien with Jericho-like powers) suggests otherwise. Superman had to resort to using an aspect of his pre-crises costume (the all yellow copy of his chest emblem on his cape*, turning it into a makeshift yellow glove) to beat the uber-ego-powered/alien-possessed GL (and no, despite the cover teaser, GL did not create Kryptonite).

 

*Looking back on this it seems very similar to Batman's 'insurance policy' of having a small amount of Kryptonite on hand at all times.

 

[OddHat]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

It always depends on the source material you choose to accept into your personal canon. Never read that fight; was GL "stronger" or did he use kryptonite to overcome Supes? If he was stronger, I'd put that down to the same Evil Makes You Stronger rule that lets Superboy Prime smack around or kill Lanterns casually.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

No Kryptonite was used/created by the alien entity in control of Hal Jordan (and the ring). It just had more 'willpower' than Hal. You're probably right. It does remind me of Wonder Woman vs. the other female League members in the Animated Series. No Code vs. Killing while under Mind Control = scary power levels.

 

edit: I was wrong, the alien copied Hal Jordan's form instead of taking it over. He also did create Kryptonite with the ring but was distracted by the ring-less Hal (by hitting him in the head with a rock!) long enough for Superman to unload with a full strength blow. So I guess there is precedence for Superman being more powerful than the capabilities of the rings (no-matter who is wearing them).

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Since we're updating things to 6e in this thread, here's Lex Luthor on 400+75. Thisis the archetypical Luthor without the super-armor and some of the other things that have been added fairly recently.

 

[b]Alexander "Lex" Luthor - [/b]

[b][u]VAL[/u]   [u]CHA[/u]   [u]Cost[/u]   [u]Total[/u]   [u]Roll[/u]      [u]Notes[/u][/b]
13    STR     3   13      12-       HTH Damage 2 1/2d6  END [1]
13    DEX     6   13      12-       
13    CON     3   13      12-
12    BODY    2   12      
28    INT     18   28      15-       PER Roll 15-
20    EGO     10   20      13-       
18    PRE     8   18      13-       PRE Attack: 3 1/2d6

8    PD      6   8             8 PD (0 rPD)
8    ED      6   8             8 ED (0 rED)
3    SPD     10   3                 Phases:  4, 8, 12
8    REC     4   8
40    END     4   40
26    STUN    3   26
12    RUN      0   12m                END [1]
4    SWIM     0   4m                END [1]
4    LEAP     0   4m                4m forward, 2m upward

[b]CHA Cost: 111[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]POWERS[/u][/b]
103     [b][i]All the Latest Equipment[/i][/b]: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 85 base + 35 control cost - END=

[b]POWERS Cost: 103[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]MARTIAL ARTS[/u][/b]
4      Martial Escape:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 28 STR vs. Grabs
4      Choke Hold:  1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2d6 NND
4      Reversal:  var Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, 28 STR to Escape; Grab Two Limbs
3      Martial Grab:  1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 23 STR for holding on

[b]MARTIAL ARTS Cost: 15[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]SKILLS[/u][/b]
3      AK: Metropolis Metropolitan Area 15-
3      Bribery 13-
3      Bureaucratics 13-
1      Combat Driving 8-
3      Computer Programming 15-
9      Conversation 16-
3      Cryptography 15-
3      CuK: The Business World 15-
3      Deduction 15-
3      Electronics 15-
7      High Society 15-
3      Interrogation 13-
5      Inventor 16-
4      Language:  Russian (completely fluent; literate)
3      Oratory 13-
3      Persuasion 13-
3      PS: Entrepenuer 15-
3      Science Skill:  Astronomy 15-
3      Science Skill:  Biology 15-
3      Science Skill:  Chemistry 15-
3      Science Skill:  Physics 15-
3      Systems Operation 15-
3      Tactics 15-
7      Trading 15-
7      Weaponsmith (Biological Weapons, Chemical Weapons, Energy Weapons, Firearms, Incendiary Weapons, Missiles & Rockets) 15-

[b]SKILLS Cost: 94[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]PERKS[/u][/b]
20      Fringe Benefit:  Basic 8- Contact, Basic 8- Contact, CEO of a major business, Improved Equipment Availability Advanced Military equipment, International Driver's License, Passport
40      Follower
11      Money:  Filthy Rich
3      Positive Reputation (A large group) 14-, +1/+1d6

[b]PERKS Cost: 74[/b]

[b][u]Cost[/u]   [u]TALENTS[/u][/b]
3      Lightning Calculator

[b]TALENTS Cost: 3[/b]
[b][u]Value[/u]  [u]DISADVANTAGES[/u][/b]
5     Distinctive Features:  Completely Hairless (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
5     Enraged:  When Authority or Judgment is Challenged (Uncommon), go 8-, recover 14-
5     Hunted:  Department of Defense Infrequently (Less Pow; NCI; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find; Watching)
15     Hunted:  Superman Infrequently (As Pow; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find; Harshly Punish)
5     Hunted:  Lois Lane Infrequently (Less Pow; NCI; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find; Watching)
25     Psychological Complication:  Megalomaniac (Very Common; Total)
15     Psychological Complication:  Hunts Superman (Common; Strong)

[b]DISADVANTAGES Points: 75[/b]

Base Pts: 400
Exp Required: 0
Total Exp Available: 0
Exp Unspent: 0
Total Character Cost: 400

 

I hopr the attachment for the .hdc file worked.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Nice.

 

To keep with the 'starting version' theme I'd probably drop the VPP altogether and go with more followers and bases. This is how I see the early appearances of Lex on Superman: TAS at least. Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne are the epitome of the wealth perk and should have the max (15 points in 5e at least). He didn't really start getting his own hands dirty in the series until after several lackey's failed him (and Brainiac took him over).

 

HM

[algesan]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Oh no, not again!

 

Basically, if you give Bruce NCM, you need to give it to most of the rest of the Justice League as well, and adjust the overall power level of the setting accordingly.

 

Bruce is smarter, faster, stronger, scarier and more resistant to damage than most other superheroes, and there is no sane reason for charging him extra points for this.

 

Today it would be easier to consider the costume as a nanofabric that gives him plus stats through a IIF. It is how I used to build the "normals" as supers. Take my 20 points and crank it around into +stats.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Today it would be easier to consider the costume as a nanofabric that gives him plus stats through a IIF. It is how I used to build the "normals" as supers. Take my 20 points and crank it around into +stats.

 

That has no bearing on the NCM argument and is not something that Bruce/Batman would have started out with when he began his career as a crime fighter.

This thread is not about building the characters as they are in the current comics. It's about building them when as a playable team of starting heroes.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Here's a 6e update on my favorite Green Lantern of sector 2814, Hal Jordan and his Power Ring.

 

Sorry for those of you without Hero Designer, the PDF export doesn't work for Followers/Computers and I don't have a good 6e alternative export for the Power Ring.

(It's writeup didn't change too much from the 5e version linked in my sig)

 

As always, comments welcome.

 

HM

 

Does anyone have or know where I can find a board friendly 6e AI/Computer Export Format?

(I'll eventually need a vehicle one as well for Red Tornado)

[Cassandra]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Wonder Woman

 

Val Char Cost

50 STR 40

18 DEX 24

25 CON 25

12 BODY 4

13 INT 8

18 EGO 16

20 PRE 10

18 COM 4

15 PD 5

10 ED 5

4 SPD 12

15 RED 0

50 END 0

50 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 153 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Acrobatics 13-/14-

2 AK: Gateway City 11-

2 AK: Washington, D.C. 11-

3 Breakfall 13-/14-

3 Bureaucratics 13-

8 CSL: Combat +1

3 FB: Federal Police Powers

3 KS[iNT]: Ancient History 13-

3 KS[iNT]: Greek Mythology 13-

3 KS[iNT]: Roman Mythology 13-

3 KS[iNT]: Themyscira 13-

3 Lang: Native English

3 Lang: Native German

0 Lang: Native Greek

3 Lang: Native Latin

3 Lang: Native Spanish

3 Linguist

4 Martial Block

4 Martial Dodge

4 Martial Strike

3 Martial Throw

5 Offensive Strike

3 Paramedic 13-

2 PS: Federal Agent 11-

3 Scholar

3 Tactics 13-

Total Skills Cost: 84 Points

 

Cost Powers

5 Damage Resistance 5 rPD 5 rED

5 DEX +5, NFC (-1/2), Linked to FF (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), OIF: Bracelets (-1/2)

15 EC [Amazon]-15 Points

7 1) EB 6d6, OAF: Tiara (-1)

12 2) Flight 10", Variable Advantages (+1/2), Megascale ["Invisible Plane"] or 1/2 END Only (-1/4)

7 3) FF +10 rPD +10 rED, No END (+1/2), Restainable (-1/2), OIF: Bracelets (-1/2)

10 4) Mind Control 10d6, Set Effect ["Tell The Truth"] (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Must Follow Grab (-1/2), OAF: Lasso (-1)

6 5) Stretching 6", Always Direct (-1/4), No Noncombat (-1/4), OAF: Lasso (-1)

8 ES: RPT, IIF: Justice League Communicator (-1/4)

8 Healing: Regeneration 1 BODY/Turn

10 LS: Extended Breathing [1 END/Turn], Intense Cold, Intense Heat, Longevity [immortal]

15 Multipower (15 Points)

1 u) Leaping +15"

1 u) Mind Link: Any Willing Mind

1 u) Running +5", 4x NCM

1 u) Swimming +15"

1 u) Transform: Instant Change [Any Clothes]

Total Powers Cost: 113

 

Total Cost: 350 Points

 

200+ Disadvantages

5 DNPC: Donna Troy (Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

10 DNPC: Etta Candy (Unaware Useful Normal) 8-

10 DNPC: Steve Trevor (Unaware Useful Normal) 8-

5 DNPC: Wonder Girl [Cassie Sandsmark] (Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: Ares (As Powerful) 8-

5 Hunted: Cheetah (Less Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: Circe (As Powerful) 8-

5 Hunted: Dr. Psycho (Less Powerful) 8-

10 PsyL: Code Against Killing (Common/Moderate)

20 PsyL: Honorable (Very Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective of Innocents (Very Common/Strong)

15 SocL: Secret Identity [Princess Diana of Themyscira/Diana Prince] (Frequently/Major)

15 Vuln: Ambushes/Treacherous Attacks, 1 1/2x STUN (Very Common)

10 Vuln: Chemical/Poison/Gas Attacks, 1 1/2x STUN (Common)

Total Disadvantage Cost: 350 Points

 

 

Designer Notes: This Wonder Woman is based on a 250 Point versiont that I put up on my Special Effects thread. I boosted her combat capability by giving her classic Martial Arts skills. Her background skills are based on various version of the character.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Why would a starting* version of Wonder Woman have Federal Police Powers or be a Federal Agent?!?

 

*That is the theme of this thread if you hadn't noticed already.

 

from the very first post:

Rather than start a new thread for each character I am consolidating them all to this new thread.

 

These builds are heavily influenced by the JL:Animated series but not limited to just that source of info. I am attempting to strike a balance where the characters could be played as solo heroes as well as members of a new League of Justice when faced with threats too powerful for any one of them to face alone.

.....

[Cassandra]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Just covering all bases, Hyper-Man

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I built a GL ring very similar to this using the computer/follower idea. However, I like the 1 Continuing Charge for 1 Day. I noticed on a previous post you are considering RSR option. I based mine on an Ego Roll and put points in to the roll to help with major constructs.

 

I am curious though. I did not see any limitation to the color yellow? I gave mine a -1/4 limitation. Also, I see you have the focus as an IIF? What is your reasoning for not making it an OIF ring? I enjoyed your other write ups too.

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I see the list for Super Speed powers separate from the base Chars. I notice the limitations on some of them (like Dex. etc.). However, I don't understand why the STR, SPD are listed separately.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I see the list for Super Speed powers separate from the base Chars. I notice the limitations on some of them (like Dex. etc.). However' date=' I don't understand why the STR, SPD are listed separately.[/quote']

 

Which character(s) are you referring to? If you are referring to the dual values for characters like Superman it is because he loses some of his characteristics (and becomes closer to a 'normal' human) when in certain situations (in presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation) and so those 'extra' characteristics are bought as 'powers' that can then have Limitations applied to reduce their final real cost.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

I built a GL ring very similar to this using the computer/follower idea. However, I like the 1 Continuing Charge for 1 Day. I noticed on a previous post you are considering RSR option. I based mine on an Ego Roll and put points in to the roll to help with major constructs.

 

I am curious though. I did not see any limitation to the color yellow? I gave mine a -1/4 limitation. Also, I see you have the focus as an IIF? What is your reasoning for not making it an OIF ring? I enjoyed your other write ups too.

 

I dropped the RSR idea as it would just bog down the playability (make a roll for every use of a power) of an already very complicated game-time character (VPP!).

 

I went with IIF on the PC character sheet since the wearer can communicate via Mind Link with the ring's AI without it being obvious. Remember, the powers are technically still the ring's and their 'Obvious' nature is reflected on that character sheet.

 

I liked how the weakness to yellow was very underplayed on the animated Justice League and based on that and other story lines in the comics (the weakness being by design on the part of the Oans) I left it as another possible 'program' of the ring's AI rather than a full blown Limitation that has to be enforced all the time. Plus, unless a combat is taking place in space it is usually a pretty simple matter for a GL to use nearby objects/materials to bypass the ring energy's weakness when used directly on something colored yellow.

[Fryguy]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Ahhh! I see. So the base chars are not affected by kryptonite/red solar radiation? Therefore in your write up he retains some of his super abilities? Am I getting that right?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Classic Justice League starting members on 350 points

 

Take a look at the PDF attachment of this post. Superman's super characteristic values are highlighted in red. He can increase his STR even further via his VPP.

 

edit: I just noticed that the Kryptonian Physiology List is not showing the common Limitations in the PDF output. If you have Hero Designer I highly recommend downloading the HDC files of the characters to get a better look at how they are constructed.

 

Attached is my 400 point 6e take on a beginning version of Superman.

Comments welcome.

 

(an update on this 350 point 5er version)

 

*re: PDF export. I have recently moved and my primary PC is being upgraded/repaired so I don't have access to all the various export formats for the time being.