Super Shield

[Mr. Gridlock]

I was looking at the build for the Questionite Shield in Gadgets and Gear and wondered if there was another way to build a super shield.

 

Instead of meeting an attack with a defense, why not just avoid the attack altogether?

 

27

Super Shield:

Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); all slots OIF Unbreakable (-1/2)

 

4u

Enhanced Block:

(Total: 40 Active Cost, 26 Real Cost) +4 with Block DCV (20 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13)

plus

+4 with Block OCV (20 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13)

 

3u

Missile Deflection:

(Total: 40 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Adjacent Hex (+1/2) (30 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 20)

plus

+2 with Missile Deflection (10 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 7)

 

1u

Shield Bash:

Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF Unbreakable (-1/2)

 

1u

Thrown Shield:

Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OIF Unbreakable (-1/2)

Use Rapid Fire and skill levels to attack multiple targets and have it bounce back. So for 28 points it seems like you have a pretty effective super shield.

 

Anything I'm missing? Or anything built incorrectly?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Super Shield

 

looks good to me.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Super Shield

 

Your question seems to be more of a character design question than anything else. Suffice it to say that depending on concept it may make more sense for the character to have extra PD/ED bought through a shield than for the character to have missile deflection, block and so forth bought through a shield. Neither build is incorrect, they are just different.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Super Shield

 

Your question seems to be more of a character design question than anything else. Suffice it to say that depending on concept it may make more sense for the character to have extra PD/ED bought through a shield than for the character to have missile deflection' date=' block and so forth bought through a shield. Neither build is incorrect, they are just different.[/quote']

 

Agreed.

 

But if I were inclined to allow Skill Levels into a Power Framework, I'd use plain DCV levels instead of Levels in Block and Missile Deflection. Not only do you get a higher defense bonus (or lower cost), it's passive and will allow the character to attack every round (with something other than the shield) while simultaneously blocking and deflecting attacks.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Super Shield

 

Agreed.

 

But if I were inclined to allow Skill Levels into a Power Framework, I'd use plain DCV levels instead of Levels in Block and Missile Deflection. Not only do you get a higher defense bonus (or lower cost), it's passive and will allow the character to attack every round (with something other than the shield) while simultaneously blocking and deflecting attacks.

 

I don't follow this construction. Are you talking about replacing the first slot with X levels of DCV? Or are you talking about buying levels with DCV outside of the multipower (OIF: Shield)?

 

If the former, I don't see much difference, as it's not "passive" since you have to activate that slot. You may as well block.

 

If you mean something else, I'm not following you.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Super Shield

 

Agreed.

 

But if I were inclined to allow Skill Levels into a Power Framework, I'd use plain DCV levels instead of Levels in Block and Missile Deflection. Not only do you get a higher defense bonus (or lower cost), it's passive and will allow the character to attack every round (with something other than the shield) while simultaneously blocking and deflecting attacks.

 

The only passive aspect is "+4 with Block DCV" and that's only because he didn't actually take a Linked to Block Limitation. The fact that it's in the description and probably wouldn't save more than 2 additional real points counters this argument.

 

The only way to missile deflect passively (that is, without using an 'attack action') would be to build it with the Trigger Advantage.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Super Shield

 

The only passive aspect is "+4 with Block DCV" and that's only because he didn't actually take a Linked to Block Limitation. The fact that it's in the description and probably wouldn't save more than 2 additional real points counters this argument.

 

The only way to missile deflect passively (that is, without using an 'attack action') would be to build it with the Trigger Advantage.

 

And I would never allow a Triggered Missile Deflection without a hefty stack of limitations. Looks like cheese. Smells like cheese. Tastes like cheese.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Super Shield

 

I don't follow this construction. Are you talking about replacing the first slot with X levels of DCV? Or are you talking about buying levels with DCV outside of the multipower (OIF: Shield)?

 

If the former, I don't see much difference, as it's not "passive" since you have to activate that slot. You may as well block.

 

If you mean something else, I'm not following you.

 

I mean the former. It would be passive as all you would need to do is activate that slot (a 0 Phase action and it requires no concentration to maintain, oddly enough exactly how the DCV levels would work outside the Framework). With a block, you actually have to abort your action.

 

The only passive aspect is "+4 with Block DCV" and that's only because he didn't actually take a Linked to Block Limitation. The fact that it's in the description and probably wouldn't save more than 2 additional real points counters this argument.

 

Because it's a Level assigned to a Maneuver, it only applies while using that Maneuver. DCV Levels apply all the time.

 

The only way to missile deflect passively (that is, without using an 'attack action') would be to build it with the Trigger Advantage.

 

You could just buy DCV Levels with the SFX of "I'm blocking/deflecting attacks".

 

Ultimately, the only advantage Block has over DCV levels is that it would allow you to go before your attacker in the next Phase if you succeed.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Super Shield

 

I was looking at the build for the Questionite Shield in Gadgets and Gear and wondered if there was another way to build a super shield.

 

 

 

4u Enhanced Block: (Total: 40 Active Cost, 26 Real Cost) +4 with Block DCV (20 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13) plus +4 with Block OCV (20 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13)

 

Anything I'm missing? Or anything built incorrectly?

 

To clarify what my comrades above have been saying, the Bolded bit could be replaced for the same cost with a simple "+4 with DCV", which would make the first slot function just the same except it would allow allow an ongoing passive defence use of the shield.

 

Other than that it's a fine write up. I'd still be inclined to add a slot that's built on Armor to represent the classic 'Cower behind the shield in the face of unblockable/undodgeable/undeflectable damage' move (AoE attacks, or Explosions, for instance)

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Super Shield

 

I don't follow this construction. Are you talking about replacing the first slot with X levels of DCV? Or are you talking about buying levels with DCV outside of the multipower (OIF: Shield)?

 

If the former, I don't see much difference, as it's not "passive" since you have to activate that slot. You may as well block.

 

If you mean something else, I'm not following you.

 

and to clarify... shifting MP's is a 0 phase action, so if you're not performing a defensive action that requires a Phase, you can shift the MP back to the first slot. Ergo, if the DCV component is no longer tied to a half phase maneuver, you'd gain the shield bonus even while doing other things, like full moving, or moving and attacking.

 

So in that sense, it'd be acting as a passive defence, even still in the MP.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Super Shield

 

Presuming you aren't using it TO attack; you can't shift it back at the end of your attack. If you Abort, however, you'd be fine -- or if you're attacking some other way. As for the 'armor', I'd go with the '1 hex-side Force Wall' thing -- protects against explosion, though not AoE -- because if it doesn't get through the Unobtainium, then you're totally fine.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Super Shield

 

Presuming you aren't using it TO attack; you can't shift it back at the end of your attack. If you Abort' date=' however, you'd be fine -- or if you're attacking some other way. As for the 'armor', I'd go with the '1 hex-side Force Wall' thing -- protects against explosion, though not AoE -- because if it doesn't get through the Unobtainium, then you're totally fine.[/quote']

 

Depending on the SFX of the AoE I'd probably allow it as a GM, but, yeah... I like the 1 hex-side FW model. Very genre appropriate

[jtelson]

Re: Super Shield

 

I would definately add some variation of an armor slot and I would also tend to make all of the slots multi rather than ultra but I like options.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Super Shield

 

Yeah, you could add two slots of FW; one for PD and one for ED to maximize defense (16 in this case), and then hope you guess right when the attack comes your way! Or 14/12 Armor and just take some of the Stun (should stop most Body). But then again, I always thought it was a little silly for such a big guy like Cap to duck behind such a tiny shield.

 

I've been scouring the books and the FAQ, but I can't find anything definitive on allowing naked skill levels in a multipower (for that first slot).

[jtelson]

Re: Super Shield

 

Actually I would go w/ a single balanced armor slot and change all of the slots in the MP to multi slots.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Super Shield

 

What's the advantage to having multi slots? Except for the HA, they're all at full reserve value.

[jtelson]

Re: Super Shield

 

What's the advantage to having multi slots? Except for the HA' date=' they're all at full reserve value.[/quote']

 

Ultra slots must always be used at their maximum value, multi slots do not have to be used at their maximum value so it would allow you to mix and match

 

Such as

+2 DCV (10 Points) +6PD+6ED Armor (15 Points) +3d6 HtH Attack (15 points)

Total 40 Points

 

or

 

5d6 EB* (25 points) +6PD+6ED Armor (15 Points)

Total 40 points

 

*My Cap clones don't have 1 recoverable charge on their EB, they're good enough at throwing the shield that it always bounces back to them.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Super Shield

 

Huh. Presumably the idea is to have Shield Hero always be able to have some of the DCV available. I'd just lay in the ultra attack slots down a bit, and add another ultra DCV slot to make up the difference. Then again, IMO, Shield Hero shouldn't HAVE 4 DCV available for hiding behind his shield; that's what the FW is for. He could buy some DCV outside of the MPow (because it's very frowned upon to purchase CSLs inside a Framework) and have the shield be the OIF explanation, but it's all about what the GM wants to let into his game.

 

Always, always remember -- if the PCs get it, so do the NPCs -- which means the bad guys...

[jtelson]

Re: Super Shield

 

If the idea is for the hero to always have DCV available then the levels should probably be purchased outside of the framework. I agree btw that CSL's should not generally be put in frameworks but the originally posted MP included them so I assumed the GM had okay'd it.

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Super Shield

 

 

*My Cap clones don't have 1 recoverable charge on their EB, they're good enough at throwing the shield that it always bounces back to them.

 

The sole reason I chose this Limitation is to avoid the END cost of the EB.

 

I also bought skill levels for Bouncing as well as Rapid Fire (to hit multiple targets as opposed to buying an AoE).

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Super Shield

 

I agree btw that CSL's should not generally be put in frameworks but the originally posted MP included them so I assumed the GM had okay'd it.

 

I have never seen any thing saying that you shouldn't or can't put CSL's inside a Multipower. I haven't asked Steve for a definitive ruling (aside the usual response of: it's okay if your GM allows it).

 

But since a number of you feel that's it's not okay, I'm going to try to rework him without the CSL's for Blocking to have an alternate version.

[pinecone]

Re: Super Shield

 

I was looking at the build for the Questionite Shield in Gadgets and Gear and wondered if there was another way to build a super shield.

 

Instead of meeting an attack with a defense, why not just avoid the attack altogether?

 

27

Super Shield:

Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); all slots OIF Unbreakable (-1/2)

 

4u

Enhanced Block:

(Total: 40 Active Cost, 26 Real Cost) +4 with Block DCV (20 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13)

plus

+4 with Block OCV (20 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13)

 

3u

Missile Deflection:

(Total: 40 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Adjacent Hex (+1/2) (30 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 20)

plus

+2 with Missile Deflection (10 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2) (Real Cost: 7)

 

1u

Shield Bash:

Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF Unbreakable (-1/2)

 

1u

Thrown Shield:

Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), OIF Unbreakable (-1/2)

Use Rapid Fire and skill levels to attack multiple targets and have it bounce back. So for 28 points it seems like you have a pretty effective super shield.

 

Anything I'm missing? Or anything built incorrectly?

 

 

Sure...but for "Spurt coke out the GM's nose" buy Desolid,lim cannot pass through objects -1/2 and wait for the howls of rage..

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Super Shield

 

I have never seen any thing saying that you shouldn't or can't put CSL's inside a Multipower. I haven't asked Steve for a definitive ruling (aside the usual response of: it's okay if your GM allows it).

 

But since a number of you feel that's it's not okay, I'm going to try to rework him without the CSL's for Blocking to have an alternate version.

 

Well, the canon write-up of a normal shield from FH is a Multipower has one slot for the DCV levels and one with a HA for the bash attack, just saying.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Super Shield

 

re: Bash Attack

 

It just occurred to me that Cap's shield should protect him from the effects of any Damage Shield Advantaged Power that he would otherwise be subject to when striking a target.

 

How should that be built in HERO?

(I used a custom version of Indirect and Personal Immunity on his HA and HKA to reflect this).

 

Here is an update to my version of a Captain America-esq shield from the related thread Character: Comment on this character:

 

27 The Shield - by Whammo! v2.0: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots OIF Unbreakable (Inaccessable Arm Straps; -1/2), Requires A DEX Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4)

Notes: Lockout on Frisbee and Ranged Deflect only comes into play if those actions fail (miss) or the shield is actively attacked (or deflected) itself. Not all slots are necessary for a character to purchase to begin with (some could be learned with XP). The CSL's within some slots represent the amazing lightness of the Shield. The Requires DEX Roll offsets this somewhat (in the hands of an inexperienced user at least).

2u 1) Shield Bash: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Personal Immunity (Only To Counter Damage Shield; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; Only To Counter Damage Shield; +3/4) (50 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) (Real Cost: 18) plus +2 with HTH Combat (10 Active Points) (Real Cost: 4)

2u 2) Frisbee Throw: Energy Blast 8d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Lockout (Only If Thrown AND the attack misses OR is Blocked/Deflected; -1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Limited Range (Based On STR; -1/4)

2u 3) Edge Bash: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6, Personal Immunity (Only To Counter Damage Shield; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; Only To Counter Damage Shield; +3/4), Penetrating (x2; +1) (60 Active Points); Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2)

Notes: Due to Advantages it takes +20 STR to add +1 Damage Class.

2u 4) Frisbee Slice: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Personal Immunity (Only To Counter Damage Shield; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; Only To Counter Damage Shield; +3/4), Penetrating (x2; +1) (60 Active Points); Lockout (Only If Thrown AND the attack misses OR is Blocked/Deflected; -1/2)

2u 5) Deflect: (Total: 58 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Hardened (+1/4) (25 Active Points) (Real Cost: 11) plus Custom Power (25 Active Points); Lockout (Only If Thrown AND the attack misses OR is Blocked/Deflected; -1/2), Range Based On Strength (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus +2 OCV with any two categories of combat (8 Active Points) (Real Cost: 3)

Notes: 2 CSL's can be used towards Missile Deflection or Block.

2u 6) Standard Defense: Armor (16 PD/16 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (60 Active Points); Limited Coverage [61-180] Degrees (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4)

2u 7) Full Defense (Of Others): Force Wall (12 PD/12 ED) (60 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Coverage [61-180] Degrees (-1/2), Restricted Shape (-1/4) 6

Notes: Acts as 12" Knockback Resistance

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Super Shield

 

I get where the Indirect comes in vs. the Damage Shield, but I don't see what the Personal Immunity provides against the Damage Shield.