You. Make. The Call.

[jwpacker]

A player comes to you with a character with this power construction:

 

120....Telekinetic Powers: Multipower, 150 point reserve, all slots IIF - Power Amulet
23m....1) Telekinesis: 90 STR, Fine Manipulation
24m....2) Telekinetic Shield: Force Wall, 26PD/26ED, 5" Long, 2" Tall, Opaque to Sight Group
24m....3) Personal TK Shield: Force Field (75PD/75ED)
24m....4) TK Flight: Flight 55", Position Shift, x256 NCM

 

It's a standard 350 point characters campaign, they're spending 215 on powers, and presumably the remainder on characteristics and skills. These are the only powers they intend to take.

 

Do you allow it? Or do the extreme numbers send him back to the drawing board?

 

I know many GMs who would veto this immediately, seeing that TK strength and not wanting a hero who can mentally lift an ASW destroyer, or fly at 30+ times the speed of sound outside of combat, or whose force field, in full effect, can nearly stand up to artillery, in their campaign.

 

But when you get right down to it, most of the time this guy is going to have a pretty even balance between offense, defense and movement, right? Or you're going to paste him the minute he uses all his power to deliver an 18D6 TK punch...

 

So, what do you think?

[Zeropoint]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

I would disallow this construct for exceeding active point limits.

[jwpacker]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

I would disallow this construct for exceeding active point limits.

 

What constraints do you typically run with in your games? And is it strictly AP, or do you also limit DC, CV, etc?

[Split Decision]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

I don't think I would allow it. So many ways this could go wrong, either for the bad guys I run or for the character.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

At first glance it looks like a very thinly disguised Green Lantern clone.

 

I favor looser caps than most. ~12DC & ~75 Active

I would allow characters to exceed one or both in certain situations though.

 

Honestly, the biggest concern for that character is the 18DC Telekinetic Punch he can deliver. However, it and all the other powers have one huge built in drawback.

They will all cost him (edit) 15 END per Phase to use! If 'all' the character's powers are in the 'amulet' then I would allow it and enforce the character's END to be within normal human range.

 

If the player IS attempting to create a Green Lantern-clone take a look at my 350 point version of him and other JLA members on Killer Shrike's site.

 

The character has almost as much raw power as your example but in a more manageable way due to END costs.

[jwpacker]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

At first glance it looks like a very thinly disguised Green Lantern clone.

 

Wow, I didn't see that at all...maybe just because I know the player...

 

Honestly, the biggest concern for that character is the 18DC Telekinetic Punch he can deliver. However, it and all the other powers have one huge built in drawback.

They will all cost him 30 END per Phase to use! If 'all' the character's powers are in the 'amulet' then I would allow it and enforce the character's END to be within normal human range.

 

Your math is a little off - it's only 150 active points, so 15 END per turn, maximum, no matter how he splits up the points. But, again, your point stands - with a SPD of 5, he'd burn 75 END per turn...

[Split Decision]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

so someone actually proposed such a boring MP?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

Wow, I didn't see that at all...maybe just because I know the player...

 

 

 

Your math is a little off - it's only 150 active points, so 15 END per turn, maximum, no matter how he splits up the points. But, again, your point stands - with a SPD of 5, he'd burn 75 END per turn...

 

Doh!

I must have been thinking of 1st edition END costs for a second there.

 

Please let us know what you and the player end up doing regardless.

 

Curious minds want to know!

[jwpacker]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

so someone actually proposed such a boring MP?

 

Hey, I was just impressed that a new gamer wanted to use multi slots in a multipower. He seemed to grok the flexibility that it gave him right away.

[Split Decision]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

If he or she is interested in a Green Lantern style MP, I have a good one written up that is recognizeable, strong, but not broken for a 350

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

I find this to be a very cheesy build. At 215 pts...this leaves only 135 points left for the whole character.(For my part, I also require 35 points in skills at this point level.) This guy's characteristics will generally be pretty bad....given the points spent in the Multipower. The Force Field and Force Wall are both WAY overpowered given a standard 350 pt supers game. All in all, this character isn't very well balanced. So....I wouldn't allow this as written...especially with the cheesy IIF, which feels tacked on solely to reduce the Multipower cost.

 

Rob

[jwpacker]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

Doh!

I must have been thinking of 1st edition END costs for a second there.

 

Seeing as I went from 1st Ed to 5th Ed with a near 20 year gap between, I do that all the time

 

Please let us know what you and the player end up doing regardless.

 

Oh, most assuredly. I'm not sure who is going to give me the biggest headaches, this guy, or the one with the 15 point multipower with twenty five slots in it. Talk about your Boy Scouts, this guy is prepared.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

so someone actually proposed such a boring MP?

 

I wouldn't be to hard on them. It sounds like a new player unfamiliar with the subtleties of HERO. Some people start with middle-of-the-road concepts and add to them. Others start BIG and whittle them down as necessary (I've always been in the second camp). Everybody has got to start somewhere.

[jwpacker]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

I wouldn't be to hard on them. It sounds like a new player unfamiliar with the subtleties of HERO. Some people start with middle-of-the-road concepts and add to them. Others start BIG and whittle them down as necessary (I've always been in the second camp). Everybody has got to start somewhere.

 

I'm really learning a lot watching them hack their first characters together (the only experience they have is in old-school traditional systems or console games). One came with a rock solid concept and back story, another built from Disadvantages first, and expanded from there, and the third just knew that many cool heroes really only have one power (he talked about Nightcrawler, for example) so I think he'll get there once he's had some time to cogitate on the system.

 

And don't feel like you have to pull any punches. I'm pretty sure none of them are reading here... I don't intend to tell them about the place just yet. They might read too many of the good ideas I've stolen!

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

I find this to be a very cheesy build. At 215 pts...this leaves only 135 points left for the whole character.(For my part, I also require 35 points in skills at this point level.) This guy's characteristics will generally be pretty bad....given the points spent in the Multipower. The Force Field and Force Wall are both WAY overpowered given a standard 350 pt supers game. All in all, this character isn't very well balanced. So....I wouldn't allow this as written...especially with the cheesy IIF, which feels tacked on solely to reduce the Multipower cost.

 

Rob

[Pariah]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

But' date=' again, your point stands - with a SPD of 5, he'd burn 75 END per turn...[/quote']

 

With only 100 points to spend on Stats, Skills, Talents, and the rest, he may have a 5 Speed or 75 END, but I doubt he's going to find the points for both.

 

For that matter, although he has the 18 DC attack, I doubt he's going to have enough Points to spend on DEX and/or Skill Levels to actually be able to hit anyone with it.

 

And for the record, I would not allow this MP for a 9starting) 350-Point character in my campaign. I'd advice the player to whittle down all those slots by at least a third.

[Split Decision]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

I'm really learning a lot watching them hack their first characters together (the only experience they have is in old-school traditional systems or console games). One came with a rock solid concept and back story' date=' another built from Disadvantages first, and expanded from there, and the third just knew that many cool heroes really only have one power (he talked about Nightcrawler, for example) so I think he'll get there once he's had some time to cogitate on the system.[/quote']

 

You've nutshelled one of the things I love about RPGs. So many ways to tackle constructing your pawn.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

I find this to be a very cheesy build. At 215 pts...this leaves only 135 points left for the whole character.(For my part, I also require 35 points in skills at this point level.) This guy's characteristics will generally be pretty bad....given the points spent in the Multipower. The Force Field and Force Wall are both WAY overpowered given a standard 350 pt supers game. All in all, this character isn't very well balanced. So....I wouldn't allow this as written...especially with the cheesy IIF, which feels tacked on solely to reduce the Multipower cost.

 

Rob

 

 

A lot depends on what you mean by 'standard 350 pt supers game'.

 

If you are referring to the prodigious amount of official published characters then yes, the character is a bit overpowered. But compared to many of my JLA conversions (see GL and Zatanna) he really doesn't stand out that much. Campaigns of many different power levels can be done with the 'standard 350' benchmark. It's all about what the GM feels comfortable with.

[jwpacker]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

It all raises for me a question I've had since I delved back into Hero - and it's a philosophical one. If the system is truly balanced, then shouldn't characters built on the same number of points be, technically equal? I mean, sure, some people will be better at power gaming than others, but oughtn't the characters be on par with one another in the long run?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

It all raises for me a question I've had since I delved back into Hero - and it's a philosophical one. If the system is truly balanced' date=' then shouldn't characters built on the same number of points be, technically equal? I mean, sure, some people will be better at power gaming than others, but oughtn't the characters be on par with one another in the long run?[/quote']

 

That depends on what you use as the 'measuring stick' to judge them against.

 

Combat prowess is not the end-all-be-all goal of any RPG Player Character. Do the characters have the ability to positively contribute to the group effort of meeting the challenges laid forth by the GM's plot? That's the kind of measuring stick I would try to use.

[Split Decision]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

no, too flexible. Yes in theory 5 Real of one thing ought to be the same as 5 Real of anything else. But they're just reasonable approximations.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

A lot depends on what you mean by 'standard 350 pt supers game'.

 

If you are referring to the prodigious amount of official published characters then yes, the character is a bit overpowered. But compared to many of my JLA conversions (see GL and Zatanna) he really doesn't stand out that much. Campaigns of many different power levels can be done with the 'standard 350' benchmark. It's all about what the GM feels comfortable with.

 

Maybe so...but I've yet to be in a game...where 75 PD/ED was needed to be competitive. I've never even had a MASTER villain with such high defenses...so I don't see the rationale for a hero in this point range to have it.

 

Rob

[jwpacker]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

Maybe so...but I've yet to be in a game...where 75 PD/ED was needed to be competitive. I've never even had a MASTER villain with such high defenses...so I don't see the rationale for a hero in this point range to have it.

 

Rob

 

I think his take was that he'd not often find much need to put full power into his force field, that nine times out of ten, it would be more on the level of 25/25 than 75/75, but that, like many comic heroes, he could, at need, exceed everyone's expectations and do what needed doing by sacrificing in other areas while he's doing it.

[Split Decision]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

Psycho Kid could make a force field on that level. But every time her did it, he aged a year.

 

 

Superboy: Psycho Kid! Quickly! Erect your force field!

 

Psycho Kid: Ummm... pass.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: You. Make. The Call.

 

Maybe so...but I've yet to be in a game...where 75 PD/ED was needed to be competitive. I've never even had a MASTER villain with such high defenses...so I don't see the rationale for a hero in this point range to have it.

 

Rob

 

 

But it's not always a competition. As others have already pointed out, the powerset isn't going to leave many points left over for anything else. The character would not be a combat monster. He would just have a few select moments where his future potential as one might show. Durak would eat this character for lunch... eventually. But it might be interesting for a couple of Phases though. However, with a few modifications, the character could potentially survive (and protect others) near a nuke going off. That's where this type of character can shine.