dropblack Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 My gaming group is in a lull right now and I'm going to take the opportunity to try Hero out on them. I've decided to run a game set in the classical period (between 300 BC to 300 AD), probably encompassing both Bronze and Iron age weapons and armor (this will be my first game with this system). The problem is, I'm not entirely sure how to build these (for example, a Roman legionnaire's cuirass)... Can anyone tell me if there's any information or ready-made prefabs out there I could use? I have Fantasy Hero and am considering using hit locations. I also recently downloaded Hero Designer v3. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Against a stone club, bronze or iron armour probably have similar stopping power. Iron armour might have a point of extra DEF. One possible way to differentiate is to make iron weapons armour piercing and iron armour hardened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTaylor Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor I would just make the defenses of hard armor lower (slightly) and weigh slightly more - if you assign your equipment body, I'd give it slightly less. Some kinds of armor would not be available, such as chainmail. Some weapons would not be used either, and they would more simple in design. You might consider dropping the +1 OCV standard from swords, since they were usually single edged and smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Chainmail was invented in the early part of the period, but it was probably hideously expensive -- maybe only chiefs and kings could afford it. Oh, and I think the +1 OCV for swords wasn't carried over to the fifth edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Since you have Fantasy Hero, it already has guidelines for alternate materials like Bronze or Iron. Also all the armor types are already there. Roman legionnaires wore one of three armors in general, Lorica segmentata, Lorica hamata and Lorica squamata. In the FH book terms Lorica segmentata was simply Banded mail, Lorica hamata is just chain mail and Lorica squamata is scale used by cavalry. The biggest defining difference would be using hit locations. The main peices of Roman armor (not including helmet, shield or additional arm/leg protection) tended to only protect the shoulders and torso. Though you may choose to add stomach/vitals to the list and wouldn't be wrong. The left sidebar on FH pg 192 indicates how to adjust Def and weight is made of iron or bronze. But in the end all of the information is already in FH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Chainmail was invented in the early part of the period, but it was probably hideously expensive -- maybe only chiefs and kings could afford it. Oh, and I think the +1 OCV for swords wasn't carried over to the fifth edition. Lorica hamata or chain mail became standard issue for both Roman legionnaires and Auxilia by the 4th century. So it could be relatively plentiful if there is an equivalent empire in your world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dropblack Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Thanks for all of the responses! In the FH book terms Lorica segmentata was simply Banded mail, Lorica hamata is just chain mail and Lorica squamata is scale used by cavalry. This is helpful! Looks like it's time to invest in some Osprey books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Thanks for all of the responses! This is helpful! Looks like it's time to invest in some Osprey books. Try here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_military_personal_equipment Yes it is wiki and some info may be off a bit, but it is close enough for general use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Every once in a while I get a hankering to run a Gothic game.... Lucius Alexander The palindromdary says that it usually just leads to creating some pun based character like "Invisigoth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Every once in a while I get a hankering to run a Gothic game.... As in? Gothic brings images of teens in black lipstick........ And I don't think that was what you had in mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Against a stone club' date=' bronze or iron armour probably have similar stopping power. Iron armour might have a point of extra DEF. One possible way to differentiate is to make iron weapons armour piercing and iron armour hardened.[/quote'] I would just make the defenses of hard armor lower (slightly) and weigh slightly more - if you assign your equipment body' date=' I'd give it slightly less. Some kinds of armor would not be available, such as chainmail. Some weapons would not be used either, and they would more simple in design. You might consider dropping the +1 OCV standard from swords, since they were usually single edged and smaller.[/quote'] The simplest solution would be to stick to historical models. Bronze armour was generally not much less effective than iron armor ... but to reach that level of efficacy it was made much thicker. I'd give Bronze armour exactly the same DEF as iron - but make it weigh 50% more (check out how thick and heavy Greek Hoplite armour was, for example: it's almost unbelievable). Thus people in bronze armour will be more encumbered, get tired faster, etc, but you won't end up with situations where light bronze armour gives the same protection as equivalent leather armour, which is where the "-1 DEF" option lands you. Also, because of this, some forms or armor simply didn't come in bronze. Chainmail became popular after ironworking became widespread because iron rings could easily be be made thin enough to be practical and protective. Bronze couldn't. So with Bronze armour, look for the types that could be made out of plates (breastplate, scale armour, lorica segmentata equivalents, etc). I'd take a similar approach to weapons - bronze weapons are heavier, for the same degree of robustness. I'd simply add one to the STR MIN for all of them. It will mean that they are not greatly less effective at personal level, but averaged over a lot of users, they will be less effective in general. When it comes to breaking weapons or armour, they'd have 1 less DEF than iron equivalents. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor I would just make the defenses of hard armor lower (slightly) and weigh slightly more - if you assign your equipment body' date=' I'd give it slightly less. Some kinds of armor would not be available, such as [b']chainmail[/b]. Some weapons would not be used either, and they would more simple in design. You might consider dropping the +1 OCV standard from swords, since they were usually single edged and smaller. The Romans used Lorica Hamata (a chain shirt with reinforced shoulders) through much of the early Republic - starting around 100 BC, as I recall. The Greek and Roman short swords were double edged, as was the typical Celtic 'longsword' - although single-edged 'chopping' and 'slashing' swords were pertty common. But yes, the average sword was significantly shorter in the time-period mentioned - averaging under 3', as opposed to the medieval period's 3-3.5'. -1 to the OCV bonues across the board would not be inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Chainmail was invented in the early part of the period, but it was probably hideously expensive -- maybe only chiefs and kings could afford it. Oh, and I think the +1 OCV for swords wasn't carried over to the fifth edition. It couldn't have been that bad - the Romans used it as their primary armor for much of the period. Lorica Segmenta (the segmented steel armor we commonly think of when visualizing Roman Legionaires) came about a bit later and was used for heavy infantry, when protection was at a premium. IIRC, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor As in? Gothic brings images of teens in black lipstick........ And I don't think that was what you had in mind The Goths were a tribe of Germans that invaded Rome repeatedly. Call them the precursors to the Dark Age. The whole 'gothic' thing relating to black makeup is a modern thing, not sure how it got called that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor It couldn't have been that bad - the Romans used it as their primary armor for much of the period. Lorica Segmenta (the segmented steel armor we commonly think of when visualizing Roman Legionaires) came about a bit later and was used for heavy infantry, when protection was at a premium. IIRC, anyway. I agree, apart from that the Romans had an advanced civilization with an impressive industrial capacity. For a more barbarian culture that hadn't progressed much further than large villages, specialized labor like expert armorsmiths was a luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor I agree' date=' apart from that the Romans had an advanced civilization with an impressive industrial capacity. For a more barbarian culture that hadn't progressed much further than large villages, specialized labor like expert armorsmiths was a luxury.[/quote'] Fair enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor I agree' date=' apart from that the Romans had an advanced civilization with an impressive industrial capacity. For a more barbarian culture that hadn't progressed much further than large villages, specialized labor like expert armorsmiths was a luxury.[/quote'] True enough, but the romans claimed that they copied it from the "Gauls", who they credit as it's inventors. So I'd say any "elite" soldier might "rate"...say a chief and his bodyguard unit, plus any nobles and their full time warriors....all in all a small but noticable percentage of a force ...say 10 to 15% of the total? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Sounds fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor I agree' date=' apart from that the Romans had an advanced civilization with an impressive industrial capacity. For a more barbarian culture that hadn't progressed much further than large villages, specialized labor like expert armorsmiths was a luxury.[/quote'] Yes, but delicious with root vegetables, once you crack the shell. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor . . . Sean . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTaylor Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor I guess I was thinking of an earlier "ancient" time period than perhaps the campaign is intended. Rome didn't start out with its empire, and ancient can mean as far back as the early Egyptian and Phoenician empires. He was as I understand it talking about bronze weapons, which would exclude later Greek and Roman empires, at best it would be around Alexander's time or even earlier. That's before the chainmail and double edged sword became military equipment for most people - if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor . . . Sean . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor I guess I was thinking of an earlier "ancient" time period than perhaps the campaign is intended. Rome didn't start out with its empire, and ancient can mean as far back as the early Egyptian and Phoenician empires. He was as I understand it talking about bronze weapons, which would exclude later Greek and Roman empires, at best it would be around Alexander's time or even earlier. That's before the chainmail and double edged sword became military equipment for most people - if any. So you're talking about the golden age of Athens and the big Egyptian Dynasties, well before 300 BC then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTaylor Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Re: Ancient Weapons and Armor Right, my thought of ancient and classic is a bit earlier than he intended I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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