Costumed Crimefighters Collective

[Killer Shrike]

Campaign Idea: Silver / Bronze Aged super-verse (similar to Astro City). The supers are members of a large high-visibility supergroup (similar to the JLU). The members of the group are diverse, including some of the most famous and powerful supers in the setting as well as some experienced but not as powerful, just-starting out, less accomplished, former sidekick, and other lower end characters. The members of the group mostly do their own things, but also work together to take on major threats, disasters, and whatever else seems to require the assets of the supergroup.

 

Each player designs a minimum of four characters across specific point tiers:

 

750 (100 Base + 100 Max Disads + 550 XP)

500 (100 Base + 100 Max Disads + 300 XP)

350 (100 Base + 100 Max Disads + 150 XP)

200 (100 Base + 100 Max Disads)

 

These characters can be unrelated, part of theme, or whatever the player likes. Two or more players can make "dynamic duos" that work together or subgroups with shared history, and what have you as well. It's also ok if a player wants to make more characters. It's also ok for players to bring in old PC's from past games and have them added to the roster as well. The goal is to develop a very large group of supers that sometimes work together under a larger umbrella.

 

The GM fills out the group with a few equivalently powered characters filling various support rolls as they think needful.

 

There are some internal ranks, with associated perk costs:

 

The 750 pointers form a "Senior Leadership" panel and run the show. 10 point perk.

 

More experienced characters that have demonstrated their trustworthiness and dedication to the group are Team Leaders; they are delegated to by the Senior Leadership as needed. This is not solely a function of power level, but also personality and merit; thus characters of 350 and up can be found in this tier. 8 point perk.

 

Those not in Leadership positions are simply Members. 5 point perk.

 

The least experienced and new joins are Provisional Members. 2 point perk.

 

Civilians that work for the group have good benefits; Employee is a 1 point perk.

 

One character, a GM shill, is the Director of Operations (or whatever you want to call it). This is a +2 perk. In addition to assigning team members various details as needed, the Director also breaks any Senior Leadership voting ties if necessary.

 

The groups has one or more bases, communicators, vehicles, etc. All the trappings of a big organization active worldwide (maybe even intergalactic).

 

 

From adventure to adventure, the players play a different one of their characters, per the Director's tasking (or as circumstances require). The high powered members sometimes are arrayed together to take on major threats, but its very common for task groups to be composed of characters across the power spectrum.

 

 

Thus one week / mini-arc Player A might get to play their top-end character Ubermale while Player B is running the experienced Captain Crimebuster, Player C is running the dependable Steelbender, and Player D is running the former sidekick Wind Shear (formerly known as Air-lad).

 

The next week / mini-arc Player A is running veteran Clawed Vengeance while Player B is running his energy projector Blastro, Player C is running a street level new join Eve Star, and Player D is running the world-famous Sky King (Wind Shears former mentor and a founder of the Collective).

 

 

Etc

 

 

Thoughts?

[Zed-F]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Sounds interesting, though the GM will need to have lots of ideas about how to set up interesting battles with PCs of such diverse power levels. Worth a shot!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

I think the secret would be a few-fold.

 

One, the higher powered characters should be both more broad as well as more powerful.

 

Two, the threats should generally be scaled at the mid-line for the group in question, not scaled to crush the one world-class hero along for the ride. Some challenge applicable to the big gun(s) can be added specifically to give the high enders something suitably heroic to do. Since the GM is assigning the characters specifically to the task impossible mission style they can tailor the encounter ahead of time. Really big threats would see all the PC's being sent in be high-enders. With such a diverse talent pool on the PC side, the GM could really go all out and present all kinds of different challenges. Ouroboros-like, its kind of a closed loop.

 

Three, it would require players to not be competitive with each other. The group would need to be playing for fun, and actively trying to replicate a scenario often seen in comics -- the supergroup with members as diverse as Thor and the Black Knight or Superman and Vigilante (thought I was going to say Shining Knight for the obvious symmetry, didn't ya?) on the same team.

[Peregrine]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

What is the power level (aside from total points) of the campaign? That is, do all characters have to fit the same power limits (range of active points, DCs, SPD, etc. as per HSR p.28, Character Abilities Guidelines Table), or do the higher point total characters have higher minima and maxima?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

I don't use caps. Individual GM's would of course be free to impose any they see fit.

[Peregrine]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

I don't use caps. Individual GM's would of course be free to impose any they see fit.

 

That's an interesting paradigm, one that I would expect to produce characters that are much more deep than broad in their capabilities. Has that been your experience?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

hmmm...

Interesting...

[Vox]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

I get the feeling that a campaign of this sort would be a great learning experience for everyone involved. Players that aren't ordinarily inclined to optimize would get to play the 'most powerful hero' every once in a while, and optimizers would be forced to see how the other half lives.

 

~Gabriel

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

That's an interesting paradigm' date=' one that I would expect to produce characters that are much more deep than broad in their capabilities. Has that been your experience?[/quote']

 

I find that it produces the sort of characters players actually want to play, with less focusing on meta considerations. If you're really curious, I've got a couple hundred Supers characters up to look at.

[Peregrine]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

I find that it produces the sort of characters players actually want to play' date=' with less focusing on meta considerations. If you're really curious, I've got a couple hundred Supers characters up to look at.

 

I'll take a look.

 

Speaking for myself, I tend to prefer broader characters; raw power level isn't as important as breadth of implementation of the character concept. I also tend to have broader concepts to begin with....

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

I'll take a look.

 

Speaking for myself, I tend to prefer broader characters; raw power level isn't as important as breadth of implementation of the character concept. I also tend to have broader concepts to begin with....

 

Well, I don't want this thread to get derailed, but I would agree with that personally. When I play I like characters that give me options in as many situations as are likely to come up in a typical game.

 

However, not all players enjoy playing the same things. Some players like focused "best there is at what they do" characters.

 

My opinion is, if everyone is having fun playing their characters and the game is cruising along, then nothing else really matters very much. So, when I GM I look for and veto abilities that create "unfun" for other players and / or myself and otherwise take a pretty light hand.

 

 

Here are the Superheroic resources on my site; have fun reading.

[pinecone]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Campaign Idea: Silver / Bronze Aged super-verse (similar to Astro City). The supers are members of a large high-visibility supergroup (similar to the JLU). The members of the group are diverse, including some of the most famous and powerful supers in the setting as well as some experienced but not as powerful, just-starting out, less accomplished, former sidekick, and other lower end characters. The members of the group mostly do their own things, but also work together to take on major threats, disasters, and whatever else seems to require the assets of the supergroup.

 

Each player designs a minimum of four characters across specific point tiers:

 

750 (100 Base + 100 Max Disads + 550 XP)

500 (100 Base + 100 Max Disads + 300 XP)

350 (100 Base + 100 Max Disads + 150 XP)

200 (100 Base + 100 Max Disads)

 

These characters can be unrelated, part of theme, or whatever the player likes. Two or more players can make "dynamic duos" that work together or subgroups with shared history, and what have you as well. It's also ok if a player wants to make more characters. It's also ok for players to bring in old PC's from past games and have them added to the roster as well. The goal is to develop a very large group of supers that sometimes work together under a larger umbrella.

 

The GM fills out the group with a few equivalently powered characters filling various support rolls as they think needful.

 

There are some internal ranks, with associated perk costs:

 

The 750 pointers form a "Senior Leadership" panel and run the show. 10 point perk.

 

More experienced characters that have demonstrated their trustworthiness and dedication to the group are Team Leaders; they are delegated to by the Senior Leadership as needed. This is not solely a function of power level, but also personality and merit; thus characters of 350 and up can be found in this tier. 8 point perk.

 

Those not in Leadership positions are simply Members. 5 point perk.

 

The least experienced and new joins are Provisional Members. 2 point perk.

 

Civilians that work for the group have good benefits; Employee is a 1 point perk.

 

One character, a GM shill, is the Director of Operations (or whatever you want to call it). This is a +2 perk. In addition to assigning team members various details as needed, the Director also breaks any Senior Leadership voting ties if necessary.

 

The groups has one or more bases, communicators, vehicles, etc. All the trappings of a big organization active worldwide (maybe even intergalactic).

 

 

From adventure to adventure, the players play a different one of their characters, per the Director's tasking (or as circumstances require). The high powered members sometimes are arrayed together to take on major threats, but its very common for task groups to be composed of characters across the power spectrum.

 

 

Thus one week / mini-arc Player A might get to play their top-end character Ubermale while Player B is running the experienced Captain Crimebuster, Player C is running the dependable Steelbender, and Player D is running the former sidekick Wind Shear (formerly known as Air-lad).

 

The next week / mini-arc Player A is running veteran Clawed Vengeance while Player B is running his energy projector Blastro, Player C is running a street level new join Eve Star, and Player D is running the world-famous Sky King (Wind Shears former mentor and a founder of the Collective).

 

 

Etc

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Sounds cool, almost like having several games rolled into one. Personally I'd top it out at 500, so newbies can hang with the big dogs, and possably save their overconfident, spndex clad hinies now and then...

[assault]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Sounds cool' date=' almost like having several games rolled into one. Personally I'd top it out at 500, so newbies can hang with the big dogs, and possably save their overconfident, spndex clad hinies now and then...[/quote']

 

Depends what the big dogs are like.

 

If they're "broad" rather than "deep", they probably aren't all that much more formidable in a fight. If they're "deep", there will be things they aren't good at.

 

In either case they may have weaknesses that the newbies lack.

 

---

 

Anyway, just for fun, the characters I would play in this setup would be:

750

Captain Justice - Batman/Sandman equivalent.

Eaglehawk - Hawkman equivalent.

 

500

Lightning - Flash equivalent.

Crimson Cockroach - Atom/Blue Beetle equivalent.

 

350

The Yowie - Tasmanian Devil equivalent.

 

200

Snowy - Robin/Sandy equivalent.

Possibly also a Snapper Carr/Rick Jones/Jimmy Olsen equivalent.

 

Some of the power levels could be swapped around a bit. In particular, Eaglehawk might not have the crazy amounts of gear that would push him up to 750 points, and instead just be built on 350.

 

I've also left out any of my usual flying bricks, which is odd.

[Kal'El Wayne]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

An idea that really appeals to me. I have considered something vaguely similar quite often.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Depends what the big dogs are like.

 

If they're "broad" rather than "deep", they probably aren't all that much more formidable in a fight. If they're "deep", there will be things they aren't good at.

 

In either case they may have weaknesses that the newbies lack.

 

---

 

Anyway, just for fun, the characters I would play in this setup would be:

750

Captain Justice - Batman/Sandman equivalent.

Eaglehawk - Hawkman equivalent.

 

500

Lightning - Flash equivalent.

Crimson Cockroach - Atom/Blue Beetle equivalent.

 

350

The Yowie - Tasmanian Devil equivalent.

 

200

Snowy - Robin/Sandy equivalent.

Possibly also a Snapper Carr/Rick Jones/Jimmy Olsen equivalent.

 

Some of the power levels could be swapped around a bit. In particular, Eaglehawk might not have the crazy amounts of gear that would push him up to 750 points, and instead just be built on 350.

 

I've also left out any of my usual flying bricks, which is odd.

 

Good stuff. In fact...not a bad idea. I'll contribute:

 

750

Chromatix: "solid light" projector (Green Lantern equivalent -- blaster / TK)

 

500

Arachnodaemon: possessed by a spider-like minor demon, thanks to his indomitable will Lawrence Lothstein is able to maintain control over the entity and bends it's fell powers towards good. Highly agile, mystic entangles.

 

 

350

Shield and Sceptre: A permanently separated Duplication based character, Shield is a male brick, Sceptre is a female mind controller with a Hand Attack. Though individually not that formidable, working as a duo they are quite capable.

 

200

Truthfinder: A normal human investigator / detective. Though he lacks the strange powers of most "supers", his mind is quite formidable and no clue escapes his notice for long (A Question analog).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Just for fun, I wrote up Chromatix

 

No pic, but a full bg.

[assault]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Interesting build. I don't usually go with 4 SPD, but otherwise compatible enough with my characters.

 

I'll have a look in my files for something close to completion, and complete it. And give it a 4 SPD, rather than my usual 5.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Interesting build. I don't usually go with 4 SPD, but otherwise compatible enough with my characters.

 

I'll have a look in my files for something close to completion, and complete it. And give it a 4 SPD, rather than my usual 5.

 

I run a lower SPD campaign. As a general rule of thumb, I prefer physically normal folks to remain between 3 and 4 SPD, trained fighters, super agents, and "normal" MA's to remain between 4 and 5, genetically engineered, chi enabled, mutant reflex scrappy types, Speedster-Bricks, etc to be between 5 and 7, and SPD 8 and above reserved for dedicated Speedsters or other characters with a strong justification for excessively high SPD.

 

 

However, that's me. Don't feel constrained to conform to my guidelines if you don't want to.

[assault]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

I run a lower SPD campaign. As a general rule of thumb' date=' I prefer physically normal folks to remain between 3 and 4 SPD, trained fighters, super agents, and "normal" MA's to remain between 4 and 5, genetically engineered, chi enabled, mutant reflex scrappy types, Speedster-Bricks, etc to be between 5 and 7, and SPD 8 and above reserved for dedicated Speedsters or other characters with a strong justification for excessively high SPD.[/quote']

 

Hmm. Basically, I give everyone 5 SPD.

 

I originally used the kind of DEX and SPD levels suggested in the early editions of Champions. Basically, if it was good enough for Starburst, Crusader and Seeker, it was good enough for me.

 

Since then, however, I've tended to give even the Martial Artists 20 DEX and 5 SPD. This has pretty much become my standard for all characers.

 

I'll often give teen characters a 4 SPD, and I'll sometimes do the same for a brick, but those are exceptions. (A Professor X type might get a 4 SPD for compatibility with the teens.)

 

A speedster might get a 30 DEX, but still be stuck with a 5 SPD. Or I might be generous and give him 6 or 7. Rarely more.

 

Of course, the main reason all this "works" is that I hand out Damage Reduction like candy. I find it models my choice of source material rather well. Glass cannons can die - but generally don't. And bricks are tough.

 

I'll have to show you an example.

[OddHat]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Just for fun' date=' I wrote up Chromatix

 

No pic, but a full bg.

 

Nice Green Lantern tribute, and a good thread. I remember you mentioning this way of organizing a JSA/JLA/Avengers type of campaign before. Always liked the approach.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Nice Green Lantern tribute' date=' and a good thread. I remember you mentioning this way of organizing a JSA/JLA/Avengers type of campaign before. Always liked the approach.[/quote']

 

Thanks! I was never a DC fan, but I've always liked the Green Lantern shtick.

 

I've often been surprised that, given the popularity of such groups in the source material, something like this isn't a more common practice.

[assault]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

I've often been surprised that' date=' given the popularity of such groups in the source material, something like this isn't a more common practice.[/quote']

 

One thing that I find interesting is that point totals and raw power aren't necessarily related.

 

Some character concepts are 'too broad' to be optimally powerful for a particular point total. To build them 'properly' requires either extreme trimming, or else for them to by built at a lower power level than their points would indicate.

 

Other characters 'fit their points' much better. If built at a particular point total, they will tend to be more powerful than broader characters on the same points. That doesn't necessarily make them too narrow - they can be full and well-rounded characters in their own right.

 

I think it could be interesting to see what would happen in a group of characters built at the same point totals, if there were enough characters in the group to break down any competition over effectiveness.

 

Then you could play both the Flash and a Hawkman who has a starship, but spends most of his time flying around and hitting things with a mace.

 

At that point I would be hard pressed to choose between the pairs of Lightning (narrow) and the Crimson Cockroach (also narrow, but not a combat monster), or Captain Justice (broad) and the Yowie (narrow). Eaglehawk and Snowy would go out the window, although Snowy might still appear as Captain Justice's sidekick.

[OddHat]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Thanks! I was never a DC fan, but I've always liked the Green Lantern shtick.

 

I've often been surprised that, given the popularity of such groups in the source material, something like this isn't a more common practice.

 

I agree that it seems like a natural. I've done similar things but never with quite this structure. I sometimes end up with something like Team Hero, Team Sidekicks, and Team Bad Guys, all moving in the same campaign. However, I haven't really had them mix and match save when a player has decided to promote his Side Kick or Bad Guy to primary character status.

[OddHat]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Quick unsolicited example:

 

In one campaign, I wanted to deepen the story by letting the Players to get a feel for the conflicts among various Evil Organizations. So, I had them create Super Mercenary characters. The Super Mercs weren't psychotics; they were money motivated Super Criminals, just dysfunctional enough that they believed using their powers to commit crimes was the easiest path to wealth. Every third or fourth game session, the "Bad Guys" would get to star, advancing the Evil Plot by working for the campaign's real Villains. Then we'd switch back to the regular Heroes. Eventually, one player decided he liked playing his Bad Guy character more, and asked for his character to have a change of heart and join the heroes. It made sense, and advanced the story, so I OKed it.

 

That worked pretty well, and allowed me to show some very interesting back story to the players directly instead of having to play Exposition later.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

 

Yes, I've used the "play the villains" technique in several campaigns in the past, even letting players roleplay the big bads. It's a troupe style of play and makes the campaign as a whole have a much more "story" oriented approach with the players "writing" the exposition via their play rather than me as the GM info-overloading them with blah blah blah.

 

 

Sometimes its with full write ups, usually its with character descriptions for each sig-NPC and a summary of what their agenda is, what they know / how the feel about the other sig-NPCs involved, and so forth.

 

Its always been a big hit with players, though some have some initial shock.